New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope

[Sredni]

I am not sure if this is real time or running time of the scope. It certainly hasn't had 12 hours running time since the last attempt.

Since the DS1054Z does not have a real time clock, it has to be 12 hours running time.
Hence the last few time you tried you might have been doing everything right, but the scope was simply locked off and could not accept any code.

Leave it on for 12 hours and then try again more carefully.

And, for your sake, add Linux to your computer. It will give you freedom to do what you want. Unlike other operating systems (which i happen to use but alongside with the penguin)...

[bitseeker]

I am not sure if this is real time or running time of the scope. It certainly hasn't had 12 hours running time since the last attempt.

Since the DS1054Z does not have a real time clock, it has to be 12 hours running time.

Correct!

Excoriator, that's why you're immediately receiving the lockout message when you retry. The lock hasn't released yet. You have to power on the scope for at least 12 hours to clear the error.

[2N3055]

And, for your sake, add Linux to your computer. It will give you freedom to do what you want. Unlike other operating systems (which i happen to use but alongside with the penguin)...

Instead of installing whole OS to get telnet client it is easier to just download PuTTY 
And the fact that it isn't installed in windows by default doesn't mean it doesn't exist.. But I would use PuTTY anyways..

[bitseeker]

The telnet client hasn't been installed by default since Windows 7.  For Windows 10, run PowerShell as an administrator and enter:

Code: [Select]

Enable-WindowsOptionalFeature -Online -FeatureName TelnetClient

I usually use PuTTY when on Windows. Thanks for this tip. Installed and works.

[2N3055]

The telnet client hasn't been installed by default since Windows 7.  For Windows 10, run PowerShell as an administrator and enter:

Code: [Select]

Enable-WindowsOptionalFeature -Online -FeatureName TelnetClient

I usually use PuTTY when on Windows. Thanks for this tip. Installed and works.

That's why I love PuTTY .. simply works!! Take care!

[JackM]

As far as I am aware, all DS1054z "DSER" option unlock codes start with the same two initial groups of 7 characters:  RDJ9JBB N3SWWUS xxxxxxx xxxxxxx.

I can confirm that.

Just letting you know that this was not true for my DS1054z. When I bought mine it had firmware version 00.04.03.SP2 installed on it, board rev 0.1.1
I updated the firmware to 00.04.04.SP1 first, did a self-cal, then applied the generated key and it accepted it, unlocking all the available features.

I also used the "DSER" option but my unlock code/key certainly does not start with the same two groups of 7 characters; mine is totally different. Just putting that out there for anyone who might think their unlock code in incorrect because it doesn't start with those same initial characters. I don't believe that they all follow this pattern.

[alsetalokin4017]

That's interesting! I know of a double-handful or so that do share those same groups.
Care to share your first two groups of seven?
I'd love to run your serial number through my local copies of the Riglol software and see if I get the same key you got. If you'd like to try it, send me a PM with your SN.

[JackM]

First two 7 character groups: FD74GJQ KLSEP6S

[hansibull]

Hi!
I just got an MSO1104Z scope, and I'm trying to get the decoder option to work. I've connected 8 data bits to the first eight channels on the logic analyzer, and applied a clock signal on the 9th channel.
However, no matter what I do I can't enable the parallel decoding option, even though it's installed! Why is it greyed out like this?

[Fungus]

Hi!
I just got an MSO1104Z scope, and I'm trying to get the decoder option to work. I've connected 8 data bits to the first eight channels on the logic analyzer, and applied a clock signal on the 9th channel.
However, no matter what I do I can't enable the parallel decoding option, even though it's installed! Why is it greyed out like this?

In my copy of the manual it says you need to select the digital bus for decoding when you're looking at the digital inputs (use the "bus" menu).

[hansibull]

It turned out to be the time scale; I needed to "zoom" in a bit, and then it would let me encode

[Rutherberg]

Hi !

Time to replace my good old Hameg HM203-5, it gaves everything it had ! 

The main use was servicing audio appliances, including tube amps, and also noise measurements in power supplies. I assume the Rigol is good enough for these applications.

What bothers me is the CAT I 300 Vrms, CAT II 100 Vrms specs. So, correct me if I'm wrong, for appliances connected to the main via an isolation transformer, it is considered as CAT II, right ?

So measuring high voltage like in tube amps is not recommended.

Now I have a separated probe with the specs attached. It seems to be 600V DC CAT II in X1 position.

If I use the X10 position, is it ok to measure up to 600V DC CAT II ? Is it OK to work like that with the DS1054Z.

I find categories very confusing because informations are contradictory between different sources.

Thanks in advance !

[bitseeker]

With the 10X attenuator engaged, it'd probably be OK. However, I wouldn't do that. If you're working on high voltages and accidentally have the probe set to 1X, the results could be disastrous.

I'd recommend getting a proper differential probe for high voltage use.

[alsetalokin4017]

...Which of course will cost far more than the scope itself did.

Or, if you are on a budget, get a good quality 100x passive probe.

[bitseeker]

...Which of course will cost far more than the scope itself did.

True, although I don't understand why that comparison is so often made. Whether you have a $400 scope or a $140 000 one, the cost of a particular differential probe doesn't change. There's no doubt that such a probe is expensive, and damaging hardware or yourself is costly too. At least you saved a bundle of money buying the $400 scope.

Or, if you are on a budget, get a good quality 100x passive probe.

Yes, that'd be good for preventing accidental switching.

[Rutherberg]

Or, if you are on a budget, get a good quality 100x passive probe.

Well, it seems to be the most reasonable choice for me, I didn't thought about fixed 100x probe.

Thanks for the tip ! 

[Excoriator]

I am not sure if this is real time or running time of the scope. It certainly hasn't had 12 hours running time since the last attempt.

Since the DS1054Z does not have a real time clock, it has to be 12 hours running time.
Hence the last few time you tried you might have been doing everything right, but the scope was simply locked off and could not accept any code.

Leave it on for 12 hours and then try again more carefully.

And, for your sake, add Linux to your computer. It will give you freedom to do what you want. Unlike other operating systems (which i happen to use but alongside with the penguin)...

Thanks for that. I thought that might be the case. The trial period decrements according to 'on time' so I thought it likely that it was running time rather than absolute time.

I am home for two days but have several dozen pressing items to attend to before departing again. I will try leaving it on for 12 hours before re-entering the code when I return in about a week from now. Hopefully, things will be more settled then.

Also, I am a little worried that the  trial period is only 30 hours so if I screw up code entry  more than once I will be outside that period. Will this mean it's gone forever?

Re Linux. I have tried using this several times for various reasons and not had a happy experience with it. Even the simplest thing seems to require a load of meaningless commands to get it to work, and it is generally a bit like kicking a dead whale along a beach. It's a pity, a free operating system seems like a splendid idea, but my experience is that it is something that you use only when you have to. (I'm happy to admit this is probably more my fault than that of Linux!)

[nanofrog]

Will this mean it's gone forever?

No.

Enter a correct code, and the features it unlocks are re-enabled. 

[rstofer]

PuTTY works well as a Telnet client with the DS1054Z.  I like Linux but I wouldn't boot my other machine just to talk to the scope.

[sandor626]

Hi,
I took a few days a new DS1054Z (board version 0.1.1). I have updated the firmware to version 04.04.SP1 ( seen on scope) . on site web version is named 04.04.01.01.  Then I up the scope (with DSER). it works fine

[yngndrw]

It's a long thread so forgive me if I've missed it, but am I right in thinking that the very latest DS1054Z's with the latest firmware as bought brand new from Rigol are still hackable ? I can't find any DS1054Z's (or better) for used prices in the UK.

I'm trying to decide between a new Rigol DS1054Z and a used Keysight DSOX2002A which I believe I can get for around the same money, both hacked of course ! The DSOX2002A has the advantage of having the unlockable MSO and signal generator options and having a slightly larger screen, while the DS1054Z has the advantage of being slightly cheaper, new and having four channels. Also the DSOX2002A can be upgraded to a higher bandwidth (200MHz vs 100MHz) and has double the sample rate and about double the waveform update rate, but has 1/24th of the sample memory. (1Mpt vs 24Mpt)

[Fungus]

It's a long thread so forgive me if I've missed it, but am I right in thinking that the very latest DS1054Z's with the latest firmware as bought brand new from Rigol are still hackable ?

Yes.

I'm trying to decide between a new Rigol DS1054Z and a used Keysight DSOX2002A which I believe I can get for around the same money, both hacked of course ! The DSOX2002A has the advantage of having the unlockable MSO and signal generator options and having a slightly larger screen, while the DS1054Z has the advantage of being slightly cheaper, new and having four channels. Also the DSOX2002A can be upgraded to a higher bandwidth (200MHz vs 100MHz) and has double the sample rate and about double the waveform update rate, but has 1/24th of the sample memory. (1Mpt vs 24Mpt)

Are you sure the Keysight is hacked to enable all features?

It's a tough decision. The Keysight specs are good, the signal generator is a plus, but ... 1Mpt of memory is a bummer. So is only 2 channels. If you need 200Mhz but you only have 100MHz it's not the end of the world. You can do a bit of signal reconstruction in your head.  If you need 3 or 4 channels but you only have 2 then you've got a problem.

I think the number of channels should be the deciding factor. What do you normally use an oscilloscope for?

[yngndrw]

Yes.

Thanks, that's great to hear - I'm not sure I'd have wanted a Rigol if I wasn't able to keep the firmware up to date with the hacks enabled but this makes it a viable option.

Are you sure the Keysight is hacked to enable all features?
It's a tough decision. The Keysight specs are good, the signal generator is a plus, but ... 1Mpt of memory is a bummer. So is only 2 channels. If you need 200Mhz but you only have 100MHz it's not the end of the world. You can do a bit of signal reconstruction in your head.  If you need 3 or 4 channels but you only have 2 then you've got a problem.

I think the number of channels should be the deciding factor. What do you normally use an oscilloscope for?

The Keysight isn't hacked but I'd do that myself to enable all the options, along with making my own Ethernet adapter from the published schematics.

My usage is mainly for stepper motor / brushless motor driver design, along with switching power supply stuff and "general hobby usage" - For the motor stuff I think I could live with just 2 channels if I needed to (You only care about current for stepper motors, although brushless motors could do with three channels) but 4 would be really handy. (Being able to see quadrature encoder inputs etc) To be honest, I don't think I'd care about the lack of bandwidth for my usage.

As for the MSO / signal generator part, I guess I could ask to see if I could get a DS1074Z / DS1074Z-S for DS1054Z money which would give me some more flexibility. On paper the Rigol signal generator looks better than the Keysight one and Rigol's MSO option has more channels although their use does disable some of the analog channels. Then again, I have a Saleae Logic 8 and basic signal generators are cheap so I'm not dead set on having these features - Decoding on the analogue channels is probably more useful and although the protocol support is more limited on the Rigol, the extra channels will likely make up for this. I have just noticed that you can trigger from the logic analyser input on the Rigol which sounds very useful.

Well that was easier to come to a conclusion than I thought it would be, although I'll probably re-watch the DS1054Z review to be sure.

Thanks !

[Fungus]

As for the MSO / signal generator part, I guess I could ask to see if I could get a DS1074Z / DS1074Z-S for DS1054Z money

I'm not sure you meant DS1074Z. That's a totally pointless purchase - get a DS1054Z and hack it.

if you meant MSO1074Z / DS1074Z-S then be aware that they're a lot harder to hack than a plain DS1054Z. You need to open it up and go in with a JTAG programmer. Even then it's not 100% clear how to do perfectly it every time.

The 'MSO' also option needs an external box of electronics to work. (does the Keysight?)

For the motor stuff I think I could live with just 2 channels if I needed to (You only care about current for stepper motors, although brushless motors could do with three channels) but 4 would be really handy. (Being able to see quadrature encoder inputs etc)

The MSO option of the Keysight could show the encoders but 4 'real' channels is easier to use.

I'm not so much worried about the bandwidth

If you don't care about the bandwidth then go for the DS1054Z unless you can get the Keysight really cheap. Four channels good, two channels bad.

[quetzalcoatl]

Thanks for sharing it! I looked at the table and it's close to my results, but not exactly the same.

The're many complications to explain how exactly the data-length work.. I'll try to summarize it shortly

(..)

It actually fluctuates in a deterministic way, but it's tricky on many levels:
- the varying max-data-length follows a certain pattern
- but that pattern shifts randomly after each measurement
- and also the 'full/half/quarter' mode of the device is quite nasty thing, because you can't easily read it (you have to check few things and deduce it), and can't easily configure it (it is selected automatically at BOOT TIME depending on the number of selected channels at BOOT TIME, and seems to be locked until SHUTDOWN -!aargh!-)

However, I've got many aspects of that analyzed already. I'll write a post about it during the weekend and write back here.

Anyways if there are any pages wikis or other threads I missed I'd be grateful for links or contact to mantainers

I have to unlearn promising to do things within a timespan of "days". I couldn't find time to sit and write it down for a long while, but I finally managed to describe what I found out at http://quetzalcoatl-pl.blogspot.com/2016/10/getting-faster-transfer-speeds-when.html.

Have a look at the summary at the bottom, if that's too much text. I tend to write too much sometimes.

I only checked my current firmware version. I'm probably not going to update any time soon. I will be posting the test utility source code to GitHub, so others will be able to check their results on different versions.

Also, I'm sorry but I really suddenly ran out of time and I don't know if the data obtained with higher payload sizes are not garbage. I don't think so. I think they are fine. But I have not checked it yet. I know that makes the research a little useless, but knowing the facts I found maybe someone will be able to verify that sooner than me.

I'd like to ask again for any wikis or other threads related to such research. I can start a new thread, but if there is some already, I can happily go there. Aside from this material posted now (and future work on it), I also have some interesting findings about the list of the commands provided by the device, but that will be another posting. I found a more "firmware/hardware reversing" thread here on EEVBlog ("sniffing the rigol's internal i2c bus"), but, well, it seems to be much more focused on hardware and actual firmware reversing. My work seems much 'softer'..