New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope

[RoGeorge]

The link http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/fs/blocks/showLandingPage/a/1579/p/p-0019/t/page/fm/0 still contains the old 00.04.04.04.03 version and a release memo of a version 00.04.03.02.03 of 2015...that's why I haven't tried that one.

The text of that page and the pdf files there are irrelevant, but the download file is correct.  The .GEL is the latest, and it's for DS1054z, no need to untangle same between confusing DS1000Z vs DS1000E.

In that page you need to click the firmware download link, where it writes

The upgraded firmware for a DS1Z Series Scope can be downloaded from here
   
                             DS1ZUpdate.ZIP

and a file named "DS1000ZUpdate.zip" will be downloaded.  Inside the .zip, there is the firmware file, called "DS1000ZUpdate.GEL", and another text file called "MSO_DS1000Z Release Notes.txt" (inside the same .zip) with brief explanations of what was changed in the new firmware.  This info file is missing from the EU .rar file, but not needed by the oscilloscope.

The .GEL files from both sources are the same, so you don't need to take any extra action.

After any firmware update, don't forget to run a self-calibration (it is written somewhere in the Rigol docs).

To self-calibrate, keep the instrument running for at least half an hour to warm it up, unplug any probes, then to start a calibration press the white button "Utility", then in the column of buttons near the side of the display, press "down arrow" and the grey button "Self-Cal" -> "Start".

It will take about half an hour, or so, to finish.  Once the calibration is ended, restart (press the power button).

[E Kafeman]

Have updated to 00.04.05.SP2.
Everything went well. Options remains unchanged.
But allowed size of logo file is now reduced to a small icon of around 3kbyte.
As I understand it is allocated logo file space in this firmware version still same as for older firmware versions but now original included logo file is just around 240x180 and RigolPacker does not allow increase of that size.

[hammy]

Same here. Updated to 00.04.05.02.02 (aka 00.04.05.SP2) and everything looks fine.

[metrologist]

What was actually fixed? I haven't updated in a couple years (maybe 04.04.04.03), so any reason to do so?

[MarkF]

What was actually fixed? I haven't updated in a couple years (maybe 04.04.04.03), so any reason to do so?

Why wouldn't you update?  I have not seen any ill effects.

'Fixed' isn't the word that comes to my mind.
However, a list of changes was posted a few pages back:
   https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds1054z-oscilloscope/msg3745558/#msg3745558

Most noticeable to me is that a lot of new measurements have been added in the menus to the left of the screen.

[JonP]

Been quite a while since last FW update,  just did the following and have the same positive experience,  though haven't given it a good shakedown yet....

Same here. Updated to 00.04.05.02.02 (aka 00.04.05.SP2) and everything looks fine.

But,  wondering about the following statement, regarding the changelog comment.  Has this been verified?

ie. Rigol has just given everybody the options for free. Anybody who installs this firmware will get them, even the oldest customers.

So,  my question,  I had everything unlocked,  from long ago,   and thought I wanted to set to DSER, to turn off the 500uV feature.  Sure enough after the firmware update everything was still turned on,  went to the site, got a key for DSER,  applied and...   everything is still set on,  including the 500uV.   I'm forgetting if you need to re-unlock features after a FW update.

Did I miss something,  or does the 00.04.05.SP2 FW remove the ability to change what features are set? (after turning them all on?)

[Fungus]

DSER won't re-lock anything.

What you need to do is remove all options first then apply DSER.

Connect via telnet and type ":SYStem:OPTion:UNINSTall" to remove everything.

[RoGeorge]

When you added the 500uV option, the already existing options were preserved.  Once unlocked, the options will remain unlocked after a firmware update.  It is not needed to re-unlock after a firmware upgrade.  Firmware updates does not disable the existing options.

The only thing needed after a firmware upgrade is to run a self calibration (from Utility -> Self-Cal).  Before doing a self calibration, unplug all the probes from their BNC connectors, and let the oscilloscope running for at least half an hour for internal temperatures to stabilize.

[JonP]

Figured...  Never saw it explicitly stated in my reading around,  but was starting to get the idea.  Kind of expected that setting the DSER would overwrite the original,  but that's what happens when you expect vs experiment...

I take it that having the 500uV feature on doesn't cause any problems, other than unreliable vertical readings when you use it?  I'll still clear it out,  of course.  Probably recal again too,  so it doesn't try to cal the "500uV" setting.

Off to do some Telnetting...

[Fungus]

Figured...  Never saw it explicitly stated in my reading around,  but was starting to get the idea.  Kind of expected that setting the DSER would overwrite the original,  but that's what happens when you expect vs experiment...

It's obvious if you think about it: When you buy a code to add a new feature you don't want it to remove any existing features when you apply it.

I take it that having the 500uV feature on doesn't cause any problems, other than unreliable vertical readings when you use it?  I'll still clear it out,  of course.  Probably recal again too,  so it doesn't try to cal the "500uV" setting.

Off to do some Telnetting...

I think the whole problem with the 500uV setting is that self-cal doesn't calibrate it. That's why some people say it works and some people say it doesn't.

It's not a good idea to enable it though, IMHO.

[2N3055]

The whole point is that even 1mV/div and 2 mV/div is software magnified "resolution...
Meaning 500uV/div is not only 5 bits of resolution in theory (less than that ENOB) it also has offset and drift from 3 steps up.... And also noise that is from much larger range. If there were not so much noise, you could clearly see discrete 32 steps over whole screen....
Therefore not very useful.

[RoGeorge]

500uV/div is very handy, especially when the scope is in high resolution mode, same for the averaging mode ("Acquire" -> "Mode" set to "Average") when the signal is very small but repetitive.

As an example measuring very small resistances (millioms range) with the oscilloscope, like measuring a contact resistance, or the internal resistance of a battery, etc:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/oscilloscope-with-trace-averaging-as-a-lock-in-amplifier-(rigol-ds1054z)/

I have the 500uV/div option since the very beginning, and it works very well, despite the urban legend that it would be bad.  It's a software option.  It brings no damage and no inconvenience to any other options.  Can be removed later if not wanted.

[Fungus]

500uV/div is very handy, especially when the scope is in high resolution mode, same for the averaging mode ("Acquire" -> "Mode" set to "Average") when the signal is very small but repetitive.

As an example measuring very small resistances with the oscilloscope, milliohms range, for a contact resistance, or the internal resistance of a battery, etc):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/oscilloscope-with-trace-averaging-as-a-lock-in-amplifier-(rigol-ds1054z)/

Yep.

I have the 500uV/div option since the very beginning, and it works very well, despite the urban legend that it's bad.  It's a software option.  It brings no damage and no inconvenience to any other options.  Can be removed later if not wanted.

As I noted earlier, it's said that self-cal doesn't calibrate that range so maybe you have to get lucky for it to work. If it doesn't work then it's annoying to have that feature enabled - you can't just whizz the scale to the lowest possible range, you have to whizz then go back one notch.

Is anybody up for a definitive test? Can you apply a small voltage to one of the inputs then do a self-cal and see if the 500uV range changes?

(I don't have my DS1054Z any more so I can't do it)

[RoGeorge]

Is anybody up for a definitive test? Can you apply a small voltage to one of the inputs then do a self-cal and see if the 500uV range changes?

(I don't have my DS1054Z any more so I can't do it)

I'm not curious to find that, because either way (included in self-calibration or not) I've used 500uV/div many times, and found it very useful, even when the zero has a small offset from the grid.

Then, if 500uV is software only (just a 2x vertical zoom on the screen), then it might be nothing to calibrate about it.

[Fungus]

Is anybody up for a definitive test? Can you apply a small voltage to one of the inputs then do a self-cal and see if the 500uV range changes?

I'm not curious to find that

Not even in the name of science?

[2N3055]

500uV/div is very handy, especially when the scope is in high resolution mode, same for the averaging mode ("Acquire" -> "Mode" set to "Average") when the signal is very small but repetitive.

As an example measuring very small resistances (millioms range) with the oscilloscope, like measuring a contact resistance, or the internal resistance of a battery, etc:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/oscilloscope-with-trace-averaging-as-a-lock-in-amplifier-(rigol-ds1054z)/

I have the 500uV/div option since the very beginning, and it works very well, despite the urban legend that it would be bad.  It's a software option.  It brings no damage and no inconvenience to any other options.  Can be removed later if not wanted.

It is not an urban legend. I had DS1074Z.


It was useless for normal work compared to scopes with real 500uV/div range.

Anything less than 4mV/div (in fine mode you can set 4mv/div) is software magnified. Meaning :
2mV/div    128 levels.
1mV/div     64 levels
500uV/div  32 levels

I remember 2mV was quite OK, and 1mV was usable. There is already quite some noise so ENOB is already at 6 bit level anyways..

In that topic you are using averaging for an impromptu "lock in amplifier" effect.
That will "excavate" signal out of the noise and interpolate low bit count.
As I said there it is quite clever and creative use.

But you are correct. It hurts nobody if you enable it..
And occasionally someone clever like you can use it for something useful.

[RoGeorge]

Indeed, I never use 500uV/div other than in averaging mode.

Rigol DS1054Z is very noisy for mV range signals, especially when compared with old analog scopes, though those were way more expensive to buy new, and not many were having a 500uV/div option.



About internal noise, my DS1054Z measures about 1mVpp noise with no probes, 500uV/div, 5ms/div, no bandwidth limit, no average and all 4 channels on.  For some reason CH3 is much noisier, showing 1.35mVpp noise. 

5mV/s includes the mains 50Hz hum noises, maybe some 1/f noises too, because at 5ns/div the measured Vpp noise becomes about 2-3 times smaller.

At very fast sweeps, there is also a small artifact, like a 1-2mVpp wiggle for about 10ns around the sync point.  This is easier to notice in averaging mode.  It is more visible on the channel used for sync.  This wiggle seems to be there no matter what.  It happens at 1mV/div, too, just that it shows half amplitude in the wiggling.

In term of offset deviations, on mine the traces have less than +/- 0.5div offset on 500uV/div, and half of that at 1mV/div.  The offset can shift with time, in 30-60 minutes for example going from +0.5 to -0.5 div because of temperature changes.

[Datman]

Hi

Does the v00.04.05.02.00  2021/07/24 update affect the 100MHz limit? It is more than an option...
If bandwidth comes back to 50MHz, can I reapply Riglol for 100MHz? I think yes... Can you confirm?

Thanks
Gianluca

[Shock]

The updates haven't disabled any licensing. If they were to change the licensing scheme all customers would need to acquire reissued licenses. It would become a nightmare.

[Fungus]

Does the v00.04.05.02.00  2021/07/24 update affect the 100MHz limit?

No.

(and an update never will)

[Electrofinn]

Can anyone please tell me if this weird knot is normal? only seems to happen on channel 1. Also included picture with all four channels enabled.
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[ataradov]

Yes, this is normal. you are triggering on channel 1, so all the rising edges get shown on top of each other. If you switch to any other channel and switch the  trigger source to the same channel, you will see the same exact thing.

[Electrofinn]

Yes, this is normal. you are triggering on channel 1, so all the rising edges get shown on top of each other. If you switch to any other channel and switch the  trigger source to the same channel, you will see the same exact thing.

Ahh yes I see, just done that and yes it does exactly as you described. I'm Just a beginner with much to learn, thank you. 

[trmntr]

Good evening! Is there any reliable information about what these values ​​highlighted in the attached photo mean? Each time reload, these values, underlined in red, change each time.

[RoGeorge]

The last one, 11, tells how many time you powered on the oscilloscope.  If you turn it off, then on again, it should show 12.