New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope

[Mark_O]

There is no real time clock on the DS1000Z series scopes.

Really? Can others confirm this?

Tis true.  Thus no date/time stamps on captures.  Nor any time-stamps on Segmented acquisitions.  Nada.

I found it surprising enough that I contacted Rigol directly, and they confirmed it (over 6 months ago).

[pickle9000]

So the 1054z I ordered rmid Nov rolled in today (6 weeks). To the door price from TEQ was just under 440.00usd + blog discount and shipping was by post. Not disappointed at all with that price. So if you are in Canada and are looking for one that is not a bad way to go.

I had my hands on one 2 months ago and was impressed

This is not a needed scope however I will use the serial decoding, I'm sure of that and I hope it works well.

Couldn't find a date code on the box or outside of the unit.


Software version is 00.04.02.SP3
Does have the jitter issue
Board 0.1.1

I did the activation code DSER and it worked fine.

[electr_peter]

Software version is 00.04.04.SP3
Does have the jitter issue
Board 0.1.1

00.04.04.SP3 or 00.04.02.SP3? If 00.04.04.SP3, then RIGOL is updating scopes pretty quickly.

[frostheave]

Sorry in advance if I am posting in the wrong thread.
Yesterday I received a new DS1074Z.  I also did the activation code DSER and it worked no problem.  My question is, can I upgrade to the latest firmware?  Currently the scope is version 00.04.01.SP2 and Board 0.1.1.  Thanks for your help!

[drakke]

Software version is 00.04.04.SP3
Does have the jitter issue
Board 0.1.1

People are still buying this despite the jitter issue?
Are they confident it is software fixable or do they think it won't affect them?

[drakke]

I cannot find an active website that give valid unlock codes for hacking this from 50MHz to 100Mhz.
Are people still doing this?

[David_AVD]

People are still buying this despite the jitter issue?
Are they confident it is software fixable or do they think it won't affect them?

I'd say that a lot of people won't ever see the issue in their normal day to day measurements.

[Monkeh]

I cannot find an active website that give valid unlock codes for hacking this from 50MHz to 100Mhz.
Are people still doing this?

You can't have looked hard: http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/

[pickle9000]

Software version is 00.04.04.SP3
Does have the jitter issue
Board 0.1.1

00.04.04.SP3 or 00.04.02.SP3? If 00.04.04.SP3, then RIGOL is updating scopes pretty quickly.

Sorry that was a mistake 00.04.02.SP3 is correct

[pickle9000]

Sorry in advance if I am posting in the wrong thread.
Yesterday I received a new DS1074Z.  I also did the activation code DSER and it worked no problem.  My question is, can I upgrade to the latest firmware?  Currently the scope is version 00.04.01.SP2 and Board 0.1.1.  Thanks for your help!

There is no point in updating the firmware unless you are having an issue that requires it. At this point there have been no major fixes.

When it does happen (major fixes) check the forum and ask if key upgrades will be killed. If they are then you will need to decide what is more critical. At this point there is no indication that they will but you never know.

[pickle9000]

Software version is 00.04.04.SP3
Does have the jitter issue
Board 0.1.1

People are still buying this despite the jitter issue?
Are they confident it is software fixable or do they think it won't affect them?

When you buy gear you do so with your needs in mind (like anything). I am well aware of the jitter issue and the scopes other feature outweigh that fault.

Unlike most scopes this one has been really picked apart. For me that's good. I had a fair understanding of it's capabilities before buying. The jitter issue is a clear fault and not minor, but knowing it is there allows you understand what you are seeing. On the other hand had I purchased this scope, not known of the issue, and missed the fault while making a measurement?

You need to understand the limitations of your gear.

I do want it fixed, but it does not mean it's a useless piece of crap. 

[drakke]

When you buy gear you do so with your needs in mind (like anything). I am well aware of the jitter issue and the scopes other feature outweigh that fault.

I am also in BC, Canada.
Where did you buy it and what was the final cost ($CDN) shipped to your door?

Thanks.

[pickle9000]

When you buy gear you do so with your needs in mind (like anything). I am well aware of the jitter issue and the scopes other feature outweigh that fault.

I am also in BC, Canada.
Where did you buy it and what was the final cost ($CDN) shipped to your door?

Thanks.

I got it here:

http://www.tequipment.net/

You can get a discount code on this thread

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/special-price-for-eevblog-members/new/?topicseen#new

I had it shipped by post and paid on paypal (send teq an email to ask for the details on paypal). the through the door price was around 530CDN. When you consider 399usd as the base cost it's a very fair deal. The discount helps. As far as I can tell this is the cheapest you will find in Canada.

The shipment comes directly from the Rilgol in Beaverton with all the correct documentation so it can be delivered directly (by post) to your home.



 

[kevbry]

When you buy gear you do so with your needs in mind (like anything). I am well aware of the jitter issue and the scopes other feature outweigh that fault.

I am also in BC, Canada.
Where did you buy it and what was the final cost ($CDN) shipped to your door?

Thanks.

I got mine from Electro-meters in Ontario, who run the rigolcanada site. They're listed as official distributors for Canada by Rigol. Total was $470CDN shipped by Fedex.

Process has been a bit frustrating... no feedback after ordering other than the receipt from paypal (they took payment out at time of order), and no response to any of the three emails I've sent. I called in after three weeks of not hearing anything and managed to talk to someone who was very helpful, and let me know that they were expecting it to come back in stock just before Christmas. Even after that I didn't hear anything of a status update until today when they called before shipping it out.

Prices are right, and phone support was actually really good, but I probably wouldn't buy anything else from them until they get their online status/email support figured out. Almost a month with no status updates by email, and no way to check order status online isn't really acceptable these days. Given how accurate they phone support guy's information was I assume they have a decent order tracking/logistics system, just a shame they don't have anything wired up to the site.

[DanielS]

People are still buying this despite the jitter issue?
Are they confident it is software fixable or do they think it won't affect them?

How often do you need to use a 5µs delayed and perfectly timed sweep in your everyday measurements? I can go for weeks without needing delayed sweep.

Is it an irritating, nagging issue that people need to be aware of? Definitely - wouldn't want to waste time chasing mysterious jitter that comes from the scope instead of the DUT.
Is it a deal-breaking issue? For many people and applications, simply using single-shot acquisition after they find the delay that gives them what they are looking for would take care of it.

Is it a (fully) software-fixable issue? Probably not - the way the jitter cycles at almost exactly 10µs intervals implies a same-clocked origin such as ripple from a 1bit DAC in the PLL's control loop.

[Teneyes]

New Firmware Here

[frostheave]

Software version is 00.04.04.SP3
Does have the jitter issue
Board 0.1.1

00.04.04.SP3 or 00.04.02.SP3? If 00.04.04.SP3, then RIGOL is updating scopes pretty quickly.

Sorry that was a mistake 00.04.02.SP3 is correct

I emailed Rigol for the latest DS1000Z series firmware.  It is version 00.04.02.04.07

Here is the link:
http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/ct/1579/s-0518-1412/Bct/l-sf-lead-0006/l-sf-lead-0006:16888/ct2_0/1?sid=W41SWJyI3

[Bud]

How often do you need to use a 5µs delayed and perfectly timed sweep in your everyday measurements? I can go for weeks without needing delayed sweep.

Forget about jitter, this is not the jitter that is the problem, it is the ADC clock which is the problem. Jitter is just a way this defective ADC clock manifests itself. There may be other problems caused by the bad clock that are not that apparent. Unless ADC clock is fixed, people will never know that the measurements they do with the scope are good or incorrect.

People reading this and related topics, whenever they see written "5uS jitter problem" should replace it in their head with "ADC clock problem", then see if that makes them less comfortable then it is now.

[frostheave]

Sorry in advance if I am posting in the wrong thread.
Yesterday I received a new DS1074Z.  I also did the activation code DSER and it worked no problem.  My question is, can I upgrade to the latest firmware?  Currently the scope is version 00.04.01.SP2 and Board 0.1.1.  Thanks for your help!

There is no point in updating the firmware unless you are having an issue that requires it. At this point there have been no major fixes.

When it does happen (major fixes) check the forum and ask if key upgrades will be killed. If they are then you will need to decide what is more critical. At this point there is no indication that they will but you never know.

Good advise.  Thank-you pickle9000.

[pickle9000]

@kevbry That is a good price from Electro-meters. They made me a little uneasy as well so I went to a vendor I knew better. Had I seen your post first who knows. No regrets on my part.

@Bud It would be really nice if they at least hinted at what was done in the last version fix. I doubt they will but it would be nice. Love it or hate it I think this will be the most picked apart scope in years. Hand drawn schematics, fixes, addons and holes drilled. Rigol should consider not fighting it and helping out here and there. Allowing a custom splash screen, displaying messages via the pc or whatever. They could invade the educational system and that will pay later on.

For anyone that is interested, my 1054z is on my burn in bench and is around the 56 hour mark of on time. I normally do a couple days of run time when I get new gear, to let it settle in or blow up.

 

[poida_pie]

How often do you need to use a 5µs delayed and perfectly timed sweep in your everyday measurements? I can go for weeks without needing delayed sweep.

Forget about jitter, this is not the jitter that is the problem, it is the ADC clock which is the problem. Jitter is just a way this defective ADC clock manifests itself. There may be other problems caused by the bad clock that are not that apparent. Unless ADC clock is fixed, people will never know that the measurements they do with the scope are good or incorrect.

People reading this and related topics, whenever they see written "5uS jitter problem" should replace it in their head with "ADC clock problem", then see if that makes them less comfortable then it is now.

And another for instance: a frequency counter that when presented with 20.000MHz signal, reports it as 19.7MHz. This was what the beta f/w had my DS1054Z doing.
Now, after loading the latest firmware from Rigol, look at this EEVBLOG post to get it.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-683-rigol-ds1000z-ds2000-oscilloscope-jitter-problems/msg578208/#msg578208
I am pleased to say the 5uS jitter issue is history.
And the frequency counter shows 20.0002MHz

See the FFT power spectra of my DSO when fed a 20 MHz sine from the Rigol DG1022.
Before - with approx 70ns wide jitter at about 30 us delay.
And after updating with the latest f/w
(still has some spurs. Much, much better than the Chaos Clock but still could be improved, eh Bud?)
No more keyboard lockups too.

[Bud]

A bit  hard to estimate without understanding the horizontal and vertical scales used in these plots. Can you tell what it was in Mhz and dB ?

[Lightages]

Does the new firmware kill the upgrades?

[poida_pie]

Does the new firmware kill the upgrades?

No! It still works fine for me.

[poida_pie]

A bit  hard to estimate without understanding the horizontal and vertical scales used in these plots. Can you tell what it was in Mhz and dB ?

Sorry, I cropped the graphs too tightly. The horizontal scale units are 1e7 Hz, so centre is 20MHz, span from 18MHz to 22Mhz.
The vertical scale is a log10 of the FFT absolute value, NOT scaled to db. These graphs of mine look quite like those
of MarkL, as shown at
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-683-rigol-ds1000z-ds2000-oscilloscope-jitter-problems/msg566538/#msg566538
i.e. 1 = 20db, 0 = 0 db, -1 = -20db etc, etc. sort of, roughly speaking.
The exact same data was used for both my graph in the post above and MarkL's post, image named "20Mhz_DS1054Z:"

The scope seems vastly improved. It is not as cleanly clocked as the Agilient, as shown back in
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-683-rigol-ds1000z-ds2000-oscilloscope-jitter-problems/msg563330/#msg563330
but it's a damn sight better.