New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope

[mamalala]

On mine channels 1 and 4 are similar sitting slightly above center (but still on) the zero graticule. Channels 2 and 3 are the same but slightly below center. I've run the cal 3 times and each time it varies slightly but the pairings are the same. Coupling does not matter nor does a grounded bnc or probe.

Interresting. On my unit they are always above the center line, and all pretty much about the same amount. Onlly if i turn on all channels it appears as if one trace is more towards the center line.

Ah well, as mentioned, not a deal breaker by a long shot. Just strange...

Greetings,

Chris

[Teneyes]

But even after removing all the options using the :SYSTem:OPTion:UNINSTall command, rebooting, reflashing the firmware again the scope still boots in the same ~35 seconds, with just the default trial versions of the options.

Just a guess that long time is for PLL to lock?

Also ,set to 500s/div and watch the zero drift at power on.   my DS2000 takes 30 minutes to be stable
And use averaging.

[janoc]

Just a guess that long time is for PLL to lock?

That looks more like the power on self-tests taking ages to me - it isn't a single delay, but multiple stages that take about 2x as long than they did before.

Also ,set to 500s/div and watch the zero drift at power on.   my DS2000 takes 30 minutes to be stable
And use averaging.

Mine drifts too, but I guess that is normal - that's why you should always get the instrument up to temp first before taking any serious measurements with it.

[kwass]

But even after removing all the options using the :SYSTem:OPTion:UNINSTall command, rebooting, reflashing the firmware again the scope still boots in the same ~35 seconds, with just the default trial versions of the options.

I've found a slight variability in bootup time averaging around 22 seconds, but nothing as long as 34 seconds.  Did you have anything plugged into the LAN and or USB ports, it might be trying to look for files, etc. during the bootup?  Did you try to do a factory reset sequence?

[DanielS]

Ah well, as mentioned, not a deal breaker by a long shot. Just strange...

Since Rigol uses an analog switch instead of a reed switch or relay, one possibility is that the ground offset comes from the analog switch having slightly different offset voltages on its ground and signal inputs. In that case, Rigol would need to provide a manual ground calibration option - either let people manually tell the scope how far out it is to set the offset or let the user initiate a manual auto-cal using the open/shorted inputs instead of the internally analog-switched ground.

[mamalala]

Ah well, as mentioned, not a deal breaker by a long shot. Just strange...

Since Rigol uses an analog switch instead of a reed switch or relay, one possibility is that the ground offset comes from the analog switch having slightly different offset voltages on its ground and signal inputs. In that case, Rigol would need to provide a manual ground calibration option - either let people manually tell the scope how far out it is to set the offset or let the user initiate a manual auto-cal using the open/shorted inputs instead of the internally analog-switched ground.

Well, for one, the offset is already visible during the auto-cal. That is, even during that procedure the trace is never centered on the 0V line. And then, there is always an offset, regardless of the V/div setting (although it is slightly different depending on the V/div setting), and on all channels, so it's not just a matter of the auto-cal only adjusting at a specific V/dev setting correctly, then re-using that value so that other settings show it.

They could simply add another step to the auto-cal routine: for each V/div setting, and for each channel, take a meassurement with a sufficiently deep memory setting, average it out to get the offset, and store that. This should result in the traces being centered around the 0V centerline as good as possible.

Or as you said, let the user define a manual offset calibration for each V/div and channel setting.

I'm wondering if this issue is only present on the DS1000Z series, or if other model ranges from Rigol have it too.

Greetings,

Chris

[beNative]

Upgrade worked fine for me and did NOT kill the upgrades.

LOVE the new EXTRA LARGE measurement font O0

That's right! It looks to me that the the engineers at Rigol have watched Dave's EEVBLOG review  !

[El-for-dummies]

Hello All !
I'm a newbie and I won't spend much of your pro-time asking stupid questions.
I unlocked my Rigol DS1054z (with the DSER-key) and all, the now DS1104Z, options are officially installed, including a bandwidth of 100M. However, the timescale doesn't go below 5.00 ns. Can anybody confirm that this should? And if so, down to what? My scope measures the signal of a 125MHz crystal fine.
Also this morning I installed the new firmware (00.04.02.SP4) and the jitter at a 10MHz sinus-signal is gone. Boot-time seems pretty much the same, around 22 sec and all buttons respond well 
So, my only (stupid?) question remains, has the unlock made my scope a 100MHz?
EEVblog is very valuable indeed!! Thank you ALL 

[hammy]

However, the timescale doesn't go below 5.00 ns.

That is ok. It doesn't go below 5ns after the "upgrade".

So, my only (stupid?) question remains, has the unlock made my scope a 100MHz?

Yes, you can see it with "Utility -> System -> System Info" It should show now "Model: DS1104z"
With the new firmware you can also have a look in: "Utility -> Options -> Installed". In the last row it should show now "Bandwith 100M".

Have fun!

[El-for-dummies]

Thanks for the swift answer. Yes it shows DS1104z and a bandwidth of 100M. It did already after the DSER-unlock and it still does after the 00.04.02.SP4 firmware upgrade. So the FW-upgrade doesn't effect the DSER-unlock.
Upgrading the 00.04.02.SP4 went very smooth, unfortunately I didn't time it, but well within 3 min.
As you can guess; I'm a happy camper with my full blown new jitter-"free" DS1054z DS1104z 

[Solder_Junkie]

I've been playing with my 1054Z again today, it's a plain vanilla one, not hacked to behave as a 1104Z. I'm running the latest firmware and have no trigger jitter.

The bandwidth has been re-measured using a 50 terminator and good 50 Ohm coax, the signal source being a commercial grade signal generator. Previously I got close to 100 MHz at the 3 dB points (Voltage drop to 0.707 of the level at 10 MHz).

The result was virtually the same. I could also use the scope to more than 200 MHz without the waveform distorting. However if I enabled all four channels and viewed a sine wave, the waveform mysteriously dropped to 50 MHz for a 200 MHz input. The displayed frequency and the period of the waveform both equated to a 50 MHz signal!

Another odd effect is to input a sine wave signal of around 250 MHz with just Ch 1 in use. Switch from a vector display to "dots" and the sine wave breaks up. It doesn't if you repeat the experiment at 100 MHz...

I also compared the rise time of a fairly ordinary square wave, both with a supplied x10 probe and via a 50 Ohm terminated coax (as above).

The rise time on the probe measured 18 nS, on the terminated coax lead it was 8 nS. I don't know if that indicates a mediocre probe, or a sloppy way to view a square wave.

OK, so I am pushing the scope beyond its limit, but interesting to see what happens.

[pa3bca]

I could also use the scope to more than 200 MHz without the waveform distorting. However if I enabled all four channels and viewed a sine wave, the waveform mysteriously dropped to 50 MHz for a 200 MHz input. The displayed frequency and the period of the waveform both equated to a 50 MHz signal!


OK, so I am pushing the scope beyond its limit, but interesting to see what happens.

Nothing mysterious going on there.. With all 4 channels on the sampling rate is only 250 MSa/s. So your 200 MHz input is way above Nyquist. What you see is aliasing: 250 MSa/s - 200 MHz = ... 50 MHz!
With 4 channels on all components above abt 100 MHz will cause aliasing...

[pickle9000]

Stand Alone Logging/ Recording.

I understand that this series has no onboard RTC or Date Generator,
so I would assume that for stand alone logging it simply allocate's a
sequential record number to the triggered event, or wait's for a file
name to be manually entered, I have no clue as to what take's place.

I expect that these unit's are a whole different monster when connected
to the PC Software and PC Clock, but my question relates to offline use.

Sequential file saving of waveforms is the norm. As for time stamping the file date on mine is 11-1-2014 1:00PM for all files. Time stamping is normally done on a PC by the OS so that should not be a problem there.

One feature I really like is the quickprint button, you set up the file format and type ahead of time and then just his the one button to save the file. It works really well and is very handy for documentation.

As for buy it now or later, I purchased before the jitter issue was solved. In fact after the first failed revision (beta) release. Even with the jitter issue it was well worth the money. The triggering variations on the unit work really well and for me that has turned out to be the best feature so far. Seriously it's amazing what you get for the money.   

[rf-loop]

Stand Alone Logging/ Recording.

I understand that this series has no onboard RTC or Date Generator,
so I would assume that for stand alone logging it simply allocate's a
sequential record number to the triggered event, or wait's for a file
name to be manually entered, I have no clue as to what take's place.

I expect that these unit's are a whole different monster when connected
to the PC Software and PC Clock, but my question relates to offline use.

Sequential file saving of waveforms is the norm. As for time stamping the file date on mine is 11-1-2014 1:00PM for all files. Time stamping is normally done on a PC by the OS so that should not be a problem there.

One feature I really like is the quickprint button, you set up the file format and type ahead of time and then just his the one button to save the file. It works really well and is very handy for documentation.

As for buy it now or later, I purchased before the jitter issue was solved. In fact after the first failed revision (beta) release. Even with the jitter issue it was well worth the money. The triggering variations on the unit work really well and for me that has turned out to be the best feature so far. Seriously it's amazing what you get for the money.   

When I read this question for my eyes it looks more like segmented memory acquire (but also about time stamp file when stored to example USB stick)

As far as I know (with my DS1074Z) it do not have segment (frame) time stamps. Segment number is sequential number but afterward do not know if there is 100us or 100s between two acquired segment.

When Siglent DS2000 acquire max 400000 segment in second every segment have real  time stamp with us resolution.

Attached image from Siglent SDS2000 where is recorded frames (segments). in image selected one acquired segment and there can see this segment timestamp (and timestamps also previous and next segment)
This is one important feature in segmented memory acquire.


Totally other thing is time stamp when some waveform have stored to USB or captured.

Example is just for what I think is his question but I'm perhaps wrong.

[Muttley Snickers]

Stand Alone Logging/ Recording.

I understand that this series has no onboard RTC or Date Generator,so I would assume that for stand alone logging it simply allocate's a sequential record number to the triggered event, or wait's for a file name to be manually entered, I have no clue as to what take's place.

I expect that these unit's are a whole different monster when connected to the PC Software and PC Clock, but my question relates to offline use.

Sequential file saving of waveforms is the norm. As for time stamping the file date on mine is 11-1-2014 1:00PM for all files. Time stamping is normally done on a PC by the OS so that should not be a problem there.

Thanks to pickle9000,

Was that date stamp you referred to a folder that you created and then addressed with your own label, and if so would that folder then contain the sequential waveform events that can be called up localy on the scope without PC connection. The manual get's a bit confusing for me at this point in reference to recall of waveforms and setup's.

Thanks to rf-loop

The image that you provided for the Siglent was ideal, date, time stamp and events within those time stamps, I dont know how the DS-1054z displays the event log although I did see it in a video, I can't remember if it was Dave's, Connor Wolfe's, Echen's, the list goes on and on.

Again Many Thanks

Muttley

[pickle9000]

Sequential file saving of waveforms is the norm. As for time stamping the file date on mine is 11-1-2014 1:00PM for all files. Time stamping is normally done on a PC by the OS so that should not be a problem there.

Thanks to pickle9000,

Was that date stamp you refered to a folder that you created and then addressed with
your own label, and if so would that folder then contain the sequential waveform events
that can be called up localy on the scope without PC connection.

The manual get's a bit confusing for me at this point
in referance to recall of waveforms and setup's.

Thanks to rf-loop

The image that you provided for the Siglent was ideal, date, time stamp and
events within those time stamps, I dont know how the DS-1054z display's
the event log although I did see it in a video.

I cant remember if it was Dave's, Connor Wolfe's, Echen's, the list goes on and on.

Again Many Thanks

Muttley

- There is no option to modify the date created/modified information it will always be the same.
- You can include date and time in the filename but that is not the same thing.
- The quickprint button sends the current screen image to the last used folder. Type is selectable in the storage area.
- All other storage types, setups, memory dumps and so on can be saved from the storage menu. Certain items (such as setups) can be loaded from the same area.
- None of the saved items have date and time created/saved in the body of the file.

The only real option is to do the following.

- Choose save (whatever item) from the storage menu. Add date time information as part of the filename.

Example

Setup01 15JUN2015 5pm.stp

The save load system is very easy to use, just pick and go. 
 

[Mark_O]

As far as I know (with my DS1074Z) it do not have segment (frame) time stamps. Segment number is sequential number but afterward do not know if there is 100us or 100s between two acquired segment.

Yes, that is correct.  (and disappointing, but understandable)

When Siglent DS2000 acquire max 400000 segment in second every segment have real  time stamp with us resolution.

The uSec timestamps on the SDS2000 are excellent.  Not only that it has them, at good resolution, but also in how they're displayed and navigated.

However, the SDS2000 does not capture 400,000 segments.  It's maximum is 80,000 segments (frames).

Lastly, the 4-channel SDS2000 unit costs 3x as much as the Rigol you're comparing it against, so the fact that the 1000z has more limitations is only to be expected.  Thus it's harder to criticize on that basis.

[tautech]

Lastly, the 4-channel SDS2000 unit costs 3x as much as the Rigol you're comparing it against, so the fact that the 1000z has more limitations is only to be expected.  Thus it's harder to criticize on that basis.

There's also 4 times the sampling available with 2 or 4 channels used with the SDS2000. 
Also a 300+ MHz front end.
The HW is very different and price or spec comparison is not appropriate between 1054Z & 2000 series Siglent.

[rf-loop]

As far as I know (with my DS1074Z) it do not have segment (frame) time stamps. Segment number is sequential number but afterward do not know if there is 100us or 100s between two acquired segment.

Yes, that is correct.  (and disappointing, but understandable)

When Siglent DS2000 acquire max 400000 segment in second every segment have real  time stamp with us resolution.

The uSec timestamps on the SDS2000 are excellent.  Not only that it has them, at good resolution, but also in how they're displayed and navigated.

However, the SDS2000 does not capture 400,000 segments.  It's maximum is 80,000 segments (frames).

Lastly, the 4-channel SDS2000 unit costs 3x as much as the Rigol you're comparing it against, so the fact that the 1000z has more limitations is only to be expected.  Thus it's harder to criticize on that basis.

Yes, 80000 segments are maximum. 
Measured maximum speed is 413000 segments/s (413k "segments" "frames" "waveforms" or how want name these).  And "400000 segment in second" was just for it.

And yes, this scope is not comparable with DS1000Z in its price class. SDS2074 MSRP (VAT 0) is EUR 990 and for SDS2304  EUR 2369.

It was only for example about time stampswhat was in original question.

[Solder_Junkie]

BTW: its on firmware 4.02.SP3 and board version jumps between 0.1.1 and 0.2.1

There is a later f/w version to cure the trigger jitter, it will become SP4 after the update

[Crow]

Hi everyone 

Just got my new DS1054z today, did a quick test to see if everything is working and of course it has
Then i was trying to do a little "upgrade" via the DSER key and the known website and it dosent work, all it says is "Invalid Licens" 

It already has the Newest Firmware 4.02.SP4 factory installed and the Board Version jumps from 0.2.2 to 0.1.1 
as you can see on the Screenshot

Does anyone have the same Problem "Upgrading" his new Scope ?

Thx for all the Replys

[Solder_Junkie]

Mine with f/w 4.02 SP4 took the licence keys OK.

I only did the memory and triggering options. Beware of the 100 MHz option as it doesn't look to be reversible in case of needing to return the scope under warranty.

[Crow]

I will try it later because its locked up at the moment.....
I tryed too much invalid keys

[pickle9000]

Hi everyone 

Just got my new DS1054z today, did a quick test to see if everything is working and of course it has
Then i was trying to do a little "upgrade" via the DSER key and the known website and it dosent work, all it says is "Invalid Licens" 

It already has the Newest Firmware 4.02.SP4 factory installed and the Board Version jumps from 0.2.2 to 0.1.1 
as you can see on the Screenshot

Does anyone have the same Problem "Upgrading" his new Scope ?

Thx for all the Replys

I think Lightages had a similar issue and when he hit the button a 4-5 times on the code gen it gave him another code and that solved the issue. 

[Crow]

THX for your Reply

I will try the Windows Programm if the Scope isnt locked anymore. Got a message that the programm itself works more stable than the Website