EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[jpc]

Sounds like aje and Batteroo are made for each other. Birds of a feather and all that. Not to imply that all who feel they have been ripped off will act in the same way. Or am I being naive in my dotage in expecting some integrity from people.

[StuUK]

Sounds like aje and Batteroo are made for each other. Birds of a feather and all that. Not to imply that all who feel they have been ripped off will act in the same way. Or am I being naive in my dotage in expecting some integrity from people.

yes it did occur to me that dumping them on eBay when he/she knows they don't work is somewhat amoral.... but was more surprised at the price they got for them....

[jpc]

Quote from: StuUK on Today at 08:54:12

>Quote from: jpc on Today at 08:33:54

Sounds like aje and Batteroo are made for each other. Birds of a feather and all that. Not to imply that all who feel they have been ripped off will act in the same way. Or am I being naive in my dotage in expecting some integrity from people.

yes it did occur to me that dumping them on eBay when he/she knows they don't work is somewhat amoral.... but was more surprised at the price they got for them....

I must admit that the price they got did surprise me as well, unless it is just someone wanting a set to test. Otherwise it seems it is true that there one is born every... Not a surprise really when I have seen people continue to buy fake Panasonic or Samsung 18650 cells off an Amazon listing even though the review section is full of complaints about the fake capacity of the cells in question. Similarly with fake uSD cards and other memory cards.



Oops, posted wrong paragraph, now removed. Not a good day for me so far I think I need more coffee to get the morning going properly.

[HighVoltage]

Well, I have also ordered a set of AA Batteroos to do my own testing.
Who knows, may I even make a profit by placing them on ebay Germany, when I am done.

[Domagoj T]

So, I saw that they offer the AA version on their website for sale with them being "in stock" and ordered one set last week to conduct my own testing (for fun).

Guess what: I haven't received any confirmation emails, no order updates, no tracking number and, no answer to my email asking them 2 days ago how long it will take to ship my order. All I have is my PayPal statement showing that they have my money.

If they don't ship and respond, I'll rip them a new one. Taking money, not delivering and not responding is fraud in my book.

Similar thing here as well.
I ordered some AAs three weeks ago from the site directly, the store said it was in stock. Got the payment confirmation email from PayPal, but no shipping confirmation. Two weeks later, I asked them about it and actually got a reply 6 days later saying "We will be shipping out all new orders within 2 weeks".

[Howardlong]

Mine arrived yesterday, they were shipped about three weeks ago.

Haven't done much with them other than to check they work and see if they fit in an Apple wireless keyboard, which they do, and you can get the batteries out afterwards too. The end cap screw protrudes a milimeter or so out though due to the added cell length. The same applies to the Apple wireless trackpad, although unlike the Apple keyboard, the trackpad is less demanding in quiescent state with cells lasting months.

[Kilrah]

Buying this crap even out of curiosity will build their reputation and justify their investment. Not for me, that would defeat my whole position.

[dr_frost_dk]

Possible a use has been found.

[EEVblog]

Possible a use has been found.

Data matters.
Those clocks typically get many YEARS battery life. Let's say 3 years (156 weeks)
It's been going 2 weeks with the Batetriser, that's an extra 1.2% battery life. That's x0.01 extra life. A far cry from the claims of x8.
I'm willing to bet it takes a lot more energy to produce the Batteriser than it does to make a new single AA battery. So environmentally it's a 

[EEVblog]

BTW I finally got my AA Batterisers.
The enthusiasm level to make another video right away is kinda low...

[dr_frost_dk]

Yes we all know it is a big fail, but here is a product where it works, and yes the total extra gain will be small and would never justify the cost, but nevertheless it still works in this application.

Ill even bet that battero adds the video to their pages/youtube

[FrankBuss]

BTW I finally got my AA Batterisers.
The enthusiasm level to make another video right away is kinda low...

And probably not many new insights, it's already busted for all products for which it was tested independently. But a final test with the monkey would be fun.

And would be cool to see your SMU in action to do the characteristics curves for efficiency, input/output voltage curves etc. I know you don't like to write software or setup some complicated test, but some viewers (like me ) might be interested how easy (or complicated) it is to control the outputs of it and read the measurements from a PC with a script, in comparison to EEVblog #957. Once you've done this, the experience you gained from it might be useful for other projects as well (uSupply?).

[Brumby]

The issue has never been about whether the Batteriser will work ... it is about whether it will work AS CLAIMED.

Those claims involve two fundamentals: the boost function and the run time.  As inferred by my statement above, there has been no fundamental concern with boost function, so the pass/fail criteria is chiefly going to be run time.

As such, saying "here is a product where it works" says nothing.  It "worked" in the toy trains.  It "worked" in different flashlights.  It "worked" in other "toys".

This clock is no different - and our expectations about the run time are modest.  Certainly they are far less than the Batteriser claims.


I appreciate you make it clear that the payback just isn't going to be there - but I just found the statement "here is a product where it works" somewhat misleading ... and one likely to be taken out of context, especially by pro-Batteriser and Batteriser marketing people.

[Muttley Snickers]

My clock is fast.   

[Hensingler]

Yes we all know it is a big fail, but here is a product where it works, and yes the total extra gain will be small and would never justify the cost, but nevertheless it still works in this application.

Ill even bet that battero adds the video to their pages/youtube

Works? When batteriseroos were clipped onto dead batteries in the train tests and the trains did another 5 minutes or 10 laps did anyone say they worked?

If you clip batteriseroos onto 'dead' batteries you can't loose energy, only the money you spent on them and your time clipping them on and off and changing batteries.

[Marcel_X]

BTW I finally got my AA Batterisers.
The enthusiasm level to make another video right away is kinda low...

I can imagine... But after more than a year it is time to bust this myth... This thread is sooo long. Time to put an end to it. After all this time, they are finally delivering. Bring on the monkey and bust this myth!

[Brumby]

From the commentary:
"I believe this is the intended use of the product so I think if you're trying to use it for something that's a little more complex and has more electronics, it's not going to work. This is a simple electric clock so probably doesn't have much in there."

A "simple electric clock" ... ?

Yeah ... I mean just how much electronics could you possibly fit under that COB blob?

[StillTrying]

We still haven't seen any oscillographs of the input currents. A scope probe over a 0.1R resistor would do to see the shape and peaks of the current.

[Marcel_X]

My god... He's back!

[FrankBuss]

My god... He's back!

He discusses Dave's graph of the train test, starting at minute 5. I don't know, I understand every word he says, but it just doesn't make sense to me. The train is a constant current device? That's clearly wrong. The curve is straight? That's wrong, too, it is clearly a little bit curvy, just use a piece of paper on your TFT screen to verify it. But the main point is that the train doesn't run as long with the sleeve as without the sleeve, nothing to discuss here. And he accuses Dave that there is money behind him, that's silly. Didn't watch the rest, waste of time as always.

[dr_frost_dk]

The issue has never been about whether the Batteriser will work ... it is about whether it will work AS CLAIMED.

Those claims involve two fundamentals: the boost function and the run time.  As inferred by my statement above, there has been no fundamental concern with boost function, so the pass/fail criteria is chiefly going to be run time.

As such, saying "here is a product where it works" says nothing.  It "worked" in the toy trains.  It "worked" in different flashlights.  It "worked" in other "toys".

This clock is no different - and our expectations about the run time are modest.  Certainly they are far less than the Batteriser claims.


I appreciate you make it clear that the payback just isn't going to be there - but I just found the statement "here is a product where it works" somewhat misleading ... and one likely to be taken out of context, especially by pro-Batteriser and Batteriser marketing people.

Was just trying to say that they will definitely use it to show skeptics etc that WOW it works
Im all with you on the claims are total bullshit, and more and more tests will show that it will give less runtime and the "gains" like in this clock will be very small that it will not justify the price and as dave pointed out the materials and energy to make the batteriser

Giving a clock extra runtime, even 5% will hardly make a dent in the "wasted energy in battery's that's thrown away", and this clock is a good case of a device that uses very close to all energy in the battery anyway.

If you wanted to really make a difference to the environment then use rechargeable battery's

[Brumby]

My god... He's back!

He discusses Dave's graph of the train test, starting at minute 5. I don't know, I understand every word he says, but it just doesn't make sense to me. The train is a constant current device? That's clearly wrong. The curve is straight? That's wrong, too, it is clearly a little bit curvy, just use a piece of paper on your TFT screen to verify it. But the main point is that the train doesn't run as long with the sleeve as without the sleeve, nothing to discuss here. And he accuses Dave that there is money behind him, that's silly. Didn't watch the rest, waste of time as always.

Couldn't agree more.

His waffle around his "curve is straight" comment would have had me  ... but he isn't worth it.

This is clearly someone who enjoys conspiracy theories and lacks technical competence to present legitimate arguments.  I might suggest insecure, too - with an inability to accept criticism, let alone admit he's wrong ... or at least underqualified.

I also didn't finish watching.

[dr_frost_dk]

My god... He's back!

Jesus i just tried to watch it, didn't finish.... he was talking about moonshine and i think that is enough said, watching that video felt like my IQ was lowering.

[Brumby]

Was just trying to say that they will definitely use it to show skeptics etc that WOW it works

Agreed.  Sorry if I overreacted.

[ez24]

BTW I finally got my AA Batterisers.
The enthusiasm level to make another video right away is kinda low...

Grab a couple monkeys and sneak down to the beach.  My guess is they use a lot of power thus it should be quick tests.  Just hope they do not lock you up, thinking you are nuts filming toy monkeys on a beach  ha ha ha

I think it would make a cool video if filmed at their eye level with the sand in the background