EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[dexters_lab]

well this is where things might get interesting, lets see what happens over the next few weeks!

I attached a spreadsheet with some stats in

[GNU_Ninja]

Just ordered a bunch of Wun Hung Lo DC-DC converters to perfect my testing techniques until I can get my hands on some real honest to goodness batterisers.

These things http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00VYLNNR6?keywords=dc%20dc%20converter&qid=1443171587&ref_=sr_ph&sr=1 are only £1.00 each, delivered!

I can't wait   

[Fungus]

Just ordered a bunch of Wun Hung Lo DC-DC converters to perfect my testing techniques until I can get my hands on some real honest to goodness batterisers.

These things http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00VYLNNR6?keywords=dc%20dc%20converter&qid=1443171587&ref_=sr_ph&sr=1 are only £1.00 each, delivered!

I use loads of those. They work down to 1V as claimed but current output with only 1V input is worthless. You'd struggle to light a single LED.

Even with a fresh AA as input the voltage will start to droop at about 50mA load and efficiency is very poor - about 50%. Need more than 100mA from a single AA? Forget it.

Being realistic: You need 2xAA minimum to drive them, 3xAA if you're after a few hundred milliamps.


The only redeeming feature IMHO is a decently low standby current - about 60uA when there's no load. You can put them in things that go to sleep and need to last a long time.

[GNU_Ninja]

Just ordered a bunch of Wun Hung Lo DC-DC converters to perfect my testing techniques until I can get my hands on some real honest to goodness batterisers.

These things http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00VYLNNR6?keywords=dc%20dc%20converter&qid=1443171587&ref_=sr_ph&sr=1 are only £1.00 each, delivered!

I use loads of those. They work down to 1V as claimed but current output with only 1V input is worthless. You'd struggle to light a single LED.

Even with a fresh AA as input the voltage will start to droop at about 50mA load and efficiency is very poor - about 50%. You want more than 100mA from a single AA? Forget it.

Being realistic: You need 2xAA minimum to drive them, 3xAA if you're after a few hundred milliamps.


The only redeeming feature IMHO is a decently low standby current - about 60uA when there's no load. You can put them in things that go to sleep and need to last a long time.

Excellent. They're as naff as I thought, I'm gonna enjoy testing them 

[AmmoJammo]

Apparently Kickstarter requires a working prototype to make a campaign..... Indiegogo apparently doesn't..... 

[firewalker]

Apparently Kickstarter requires a working prototype to make a campaign..... Indiegogo apparently doesn't..... 

I am not so sure about that. Have a look at the following.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/shaving-with-laser/

Alexander.

[AmmoJammo]

Apparently Kickstarter requires a working prototype to make a campaign..... Indiegogo apparently doesn't..... 

I am not so sure about that. Have a look at the following.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/shaving-with-laser/

Alexander.

I did say apparently, and I heard it elsewhere, but that kickstarter appears to be claiming to have a working product....

Two of the aluminum prototypes with the laser turned on

Prototype with laser attached

[LabSpokane]

It's done and dusted!
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/batteriser-extend-battery-life-by-up-to-8x#/funders
$395,314
7400 backers.
And IIRC Bob said they are on track for shipping. Let's see...

-10% = 355,783

Then there will be the inevitable credit cards that don't process because they are expired, over the limit, etc. 

The total dollar value for the C & D models is just shy of $40K, so there's $36K to pay for all the tooling, setup charges, component costs, etc.   That is the definition of punishment.  It's all the work of the AA and AAA models and likely at a substantial loss. 

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Minus all the $5.00 fees that are for shipping chargers that IGG counts as contributions.

Jay_Diddy_B

[edy]

Has anyone else noticed when you try to go to batteriser.com, the first time browser says network error or cant connect, but then you press retry button and it works. This is happening on my phone and tablet, only when I go to www.batteriser.com directly typing the url in browser bar, and always the first time... After pressing retry it goes through fine second time. And this never happened to me before or even now with any other site on the internet... Only batteriser. Any ideas?

[f1rmb]

Has anyone else noticed when you try to go to batteriser.com, the first time browser says network error or cant connect, but then you press retry button and it works. This is happening on my phone and tablet, only when I go to www.batteriser.com directly typing the url in browser bar, and always the first time... After pressing retry it goes through fine second time. And this never happened to me before or even now with any other site on the internet... Only batteriser. Any ideas?

They're probably hosted on a RPi, using AA and butterizer ;-)

[EEVblog]

Has anyone else noticed when you try to go to batteriser.com, the first time browser says network error or cant connect, but then you press retry button and it works. This is happening on my phone and tablet, only when I go to www.batteriser.com directly typing the url in browser bar, and always the first time... After pressing retry it goes through fine second time. And this never happened to me before or even now with any other site on the internet... Only batteriser. Any ideas?

Yep, I get that.

[edy]

So is this some kind of fake page that captures info or redirects, or some network server  issue, or what? It is quite interesting to find out why it is happening.

[Fungus]

So is this some kind of fake page that captures info or redirects, or some network server  issue, or what? It is quite interesting to find out why it is happening.

Something like that.

Note that even if you type "http://www.batteriser.com/" in the address box you end up at "http://batteriser.com/"

So it's some sort of server thing.

Or maybe they're under attack by Big Battery.

[Chipguy]

Has anyone else noticed when you try to go to batteriser.com, the first time browser says network error or cant connect, but then you press retry button and it works. This is happening on my phone and tablet, only when I go to www.batteriser.com directly typing the url in browser bar, and always the first time... After pressing retry it goes through fine second time. And this never happened to me before or even now with any other site on the internet... Only batteriser. Any ideas?

Yes, I get that. Using Firefox latest update.

[firewalker]

It doesn't happen for me. And tbh I don;t remember happening. Firefox on GNU/Linux though.

Alexander.

[EEVblog]

Or maybe they're under attack by Big Battery.

As a rumoured paid employee of Duracell, I can neither confirm nor deny there is any such attack 

[amyk]

I've gotten that occasionally too - it looks like the server resets the connection (i.e. closes it) immediately after the request is sent, but if you try again it starts working for a while.

[ErikTheNorwegian]

Has anyone else noticed when you try to go to batteriser.com, the first time browser says network error or cant connect, but then you press retry button and it works. This is happening on my phone and tablet, only when I go to www.batteriser.com directly typing the url in browser bar, and always the first time... After pressing retry it goes through fine second time. And this never happened to me before or even now with any other site on the internet... Only batteriser. Any ideas?

Yepp, noticed it early this last week, on monday i think. It looks like a DNS lookup problem.

[edy]

In Google Chrome I'm getting:  ERR_CONNECTION_RESET

Then immediately after a few seconds the browser refreshes (or I have to hit a "retry" button) and it loads up "batteriser.com" (without the "www."). So yeah it must be something to do with "www." setting on their server which is supposed to redirect to the URL without it.

Apparently it is some timeout issue. Something is taking too long to respond or do something I guess. Probably just a silly glitch on whoever is hosting their website... Just a mistake or accidental setting oversight.

[jippie]

It doesn't happen for me. And tbh I don;t remember happening. Firefox on GNU/Linux though.

I get a server error too, using:

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/40.0

I suspect a poorly tested webserver configuration and logfiles not being checked (as most admins like to forget).

[ez24]

http://batteriser.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Batteriser_Report_FCC.pdf

Legal question  or when does Sept 3 start?

In their FCC report the tests were started around 2:35 pm on Sept 3  and a piece of testing gear (a cable  CNT 195) was due for calibration on Sept 3.

So was it past the calibration date?  Or do they have until midnight?
Is there a grace period for calibration (I have nothing that needs outside calibration).

Are testing labs allowed to calibrate their own equipment?

Also not good for a testing lab to number the tests as Sequences then report then out of sequence (order) in the report.  There were 4 tests with times and reported in this order 2,1,3,4 (times out of order).

If I was a regulator, I would call the lab and ask them these questions.  And I would expect the next test results not to have these mistakes.
 

[MrRobSteel]

Test labs are usually allowed to calibrate their own equipment to a certain degree, the equipment they use to calibrate with though, that's sent away to another company or someone comes in to calibrate on site.

As for being past calibration... it's never an ideal situation, but as long as you're able to prove that it was working as specified, for example, within spec next calibration, they you can probably get away with it. Just far easier for everyone involved if everything is calibrated.

[ez24]

Test labs are usually allowed to calibrate their own equipment to a certain degree, the equipment they use to calibrate with though, that's sent away to another company or someone comes in to calibrate on site.

As for being past calibration... it's never an ideal situation, but as long as you're able to prove that it was working as specified, for example, within spec next calibration, they you can probably get away with it. Just far easier for everyone involved if everything is calibrated.

thanks

[5ky]

Sounds like they don't have their apache2 aliases set for http://www.batteriser.com (but they do for http://batteriser.com) and aren't using MOD_REWRITE.