EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[amyk]

I suppose we will never know as this person has walked a long distance on his current path and saving face would require him to not admit he was wrong.

His voltage path, however, is about to take a deep dive...

[Halcyon]

It completely ignores two other truths about people: that everyone can be scammed, and that the smarter you are the more effectively you can be scammed.

There's smart (i.e.: knowing a lot) and then there's being bright (knowing a lot, having common sense and being able to think, analyse and adapt). I come across bright people fairly infrequently.

I know a lot of smart people but when it comes to critical thinking, they are lost. An example is a friend of mine who is quite articulate and educated failed to see how his $100+ IEC power cable was a complete waste of money (yes, he is an audiophool). Failing to admit being duped seems to be a common trait in "smart" people.

I don't agree that everyone can be scammed however. It's a bit like saying everyone can be hypnotised, in that it relies on the ability of the scammer/hypnotist to be "better than" the target. If everyone employed some basic "checks and balances" to their decision making, no one would get scammed. To me it's quite logical, sort of like driving a car; "If intersection isn't clear, do not proceed, wait until intersection is clear". Simples.

[vsboost]

People asking for money back 
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/batteriser-extend-battery-life-by-up-to-8x#/comments

[Brumby]

Sure, the Roos probably felt they had to save face

It's a national icon and it appears on our coat of arms - including our 50 cent piece - but when Roos become a problem, we have a cull.

You can also find Roo on the menu of several restaurants in Sydney - but a serve of the ones I think you're talking about would be really hard to swallow.......

[EEVblog]

People asking for money back 
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/batteriser-extend-battery-life-by-up-to-8x#/comments

People have been asking for their money back for months. Some even get emails indicating it will be done, but not a single person has been refunded yet to public knowledge.
The thing with crowd funding campaigns is that most people will forgive you if you don't deliver, but only if you are honest and transparent being having tried and where the money went. Batteroo are taking the guaranteed inciting pitch fork lynch mob approach, and it's baffling as to why they choose that path.

Bob for examples says he's on his way to China. Well, how about an update each day with photos of him actually there, take a few minutes to do a video and say "Hi, I'm here and I'm on the case". Simple stuff.

[Kjelt]

Bob for examples says he's on his way to China. Well, how about an update each day with photos of him actually there, take a few minutes to do a video and say "Hi, I'm here and I'm on the case". Simple stuff.

He is probably still in the US and they don't have a green screen to get away with it 

[zal42]

If everyone employed some basic "checks and balances" to their decision making, no one would get scammed. To me it's quite logical, sort of like driving a car; "If intersection isn't clear, do not proceed, wait until intersection is clear". Simples.

True, if everyone were completely logical and had perfect information, nobody would get scammed. But people are not completely logical and do not have perfect information.

However, the line of reasoning you just articulated happens to be the exact line of reasoning that makes intelligent people more effective marks. Note that I mean "effective" in a particular way: not that they are more likely to fall for a given scam, but once they have fallen for a scam they are more likely to not believe they got taken.

This is just a variation on another human thing that has been known for a long time: the more intelligent a person is, the easier it is for them to adopt and believe really weird things. It's because smart people are not robots and are influenced by emotions just like everybody, but smart people are better able to come up with a line of reasoning that enables them to come to the conclusion that they have already decided they want to come to.

This is such a potent issue that many of the mechanisms for how science is done are directly intended to try to counteract that problem (through peer reviews, etc.) -- because if you do nothing about it, researchers will tend to "prove" the hypotheses they want to be true rather than the ones that actually are.

[Fungus]

Looks like Bob finally posted a proper update!

Here he is just after landing at Shenzhen airport:



And here in downtown Shenzhen, checking out the sights and sounds of China:



And finally: Here he is on the Batteriser production line, everybody here is hard at work making your Batterisers!


(Bob told me one of the workers on the left is confident of shipping some Batterisers next month)

[Muttley Snickers]

 

[McBryce]

Wow!!  He's REALLY there!

McBryce.

(That's almost as bad as my attempts at Photoshop!)

[StuUK]

Looks like as much effort has been spent on that photoshop as producing the batteriser...

[Fungus]

Darn, looks like the facebook page is now moderated. ("Owner will review your post...")

[Brumby]

Prevents posts from seeing the light of day.

Saves the problem of them getting captured in a screen shot before they get removed.

[EEVblog]

Prevents posts from seeing the light of day.
Saves the problem of them getting captured in a screen shot before they get removed.

Why change now after all this time of people capturing and posting messages before they are deleted?

[madires]

Prevents posts from seeing the light of day.
Saves the problem of them getting captured in a screen shot before they get removed.

Why change now after all this time of people capturing and posting messages before they are deleted?

At some point it's easier to review messages before publishing instead of deleting negative messages already published. Too much bad PR for Bob.

[Fungus]

Prevents posts from seeing the light of day.
Saves the problem of them getting captured in a screen shot before they get removed.

Why change now after all this time of people capturing and posting messages before they are deleted?

Sharp increase in number of unwanted posts?

[SeanB]

Looks like as much effort has been spent on that photoshop as producing the batteriser...

i think you are wrong, that job has had a lot more work done than the batterkiller.....

[Fungus]

Bob narrowly escapes a deadly landslide that might have delayed Batteriser. Luckily he plays sports.


Ali wasn't invited on the trip to China, he had to stay home in Milpitas.


 

[Nerull]

It completely ignores two other truths about people: that everyone can be scammed, and that the smarter you are the more effectively you can be scammed.

There's smart (i.e.: knowing a lot) and then there's being bright (knowing a lot, having common sense and being able to think, analyse and adapt). I come across bright people fairly infrequently.

I know a lot of smart people but when it comes to critical thinking, they are lost. An example is a friend of mine who is quite articulate and educated failed to see how his $100+ IEC power cable was a complete waste of money (yes, he is an audiophool). Failing to admit being duped seems to be a common trait in "smart" people.

I don't agree that everyone can be scammed however. It's a bit like saying everyone can be hypnotised, in that it relies on the ability of the scammer/hypnotist to be "better than" the target. If everyone employed some basic "checks and balances" to their decision making, no one would get scammed. To me it's quite logical, sort of like driving a car; "If intersection isn't clear, do not proceed, wait until intersection is clear". Simples.

But that's the thing. You can see scammy products in the fields you know well, but are likely other fields where you don't know enough to steer clear. You've likely purchased BS products in the past, without realizing it - the world is full of them.

Now i'm sure you would contest that, of course, you would never get taken. That's likely precisely how your friend felt, and you're no more likely to be right.

Doctors are notorious for this. Being a doctor, or even worse, a surgeon, almost requires a massive ego as part of the job. You have to be confident or you will fail. It also means they firmly believe that they are also experts in every other field, and refuse to hear otherwise. This causes many headaches for the unfortunate people who have to work with them. Work with IT in a hospital and you will quickly come to regret your life choices.

In much of the rest of the sciences, Engineers have a reputation for buying into a lot of kooky things.

[EEVblog]

Prevents posts from seeing the light of day.
Saves the problem of them getting captured in a screen shot before they get removed.

Why change now after all this time of people capturing and posting messages before they are deleted?

[digsys]

   Why change now after all this time of people capturing and posting messages before they are deleted? 

Maybe the new rumoured 1200% Hyperionizer ?? :-)
Edit: I mean, you got away with a HUGE sum the first time, why stop? No laws broken, no one will come after you !!
PLUS !! There's still 7 billion more suckers out there, give or take a few !!

[Wytnucls]

They obviously have nothing good to announce to pacify investors.
DC to DC converters are notoriously difficult to design. The kind of performance they're after would be at the cutting edge of current technology and may take a long time to perfect, if at all possible.
SKTA hasn't given them the boot yet, so something might still be in the works.

[station240]

Fungus please can you do one of the whole team in camp dumpster. 

[EEVblog]

They obviously have nothing good to announce to pacify investors.

You don't need to announce anything. Just posts photos that prove something is being done.

[Delta]

They obviously have nothing good to announce to pacify investors.

You don't need to announce anything. Just posts photos that prove something is being done.

Therein lies the problem.  Nothing is being done.  There is no CM in China.  They are not manufacturing anything, and never intended to.