Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X Plus (Read 748303 times)

rf-loop · « **Reply #2450 on:** March 06, 2021, 06:02:16 am »

Quote from: mawyatt on March 06, 2021, 02:31:01 am

Quote from: profanum429 on March 06, 2021, 01:18:09 am
I didn't want to clog up the DIY logic probe thread (since this isn't so much DIY) so I figured I'd ask here and see if anyone knew. I saw earlier that the Rigol RPL2316 look suspiciously like the SPL2016 logic probes, but they hold a little differently. They have a top latch instead of the side latch like the SPL2016; does anyone have any thoughts to if they'd work with this scope? I'm pretty sure they're the same design, just a slightly different case.

I only ask because I might be able to get a set of them pretty cheaply and that'd be a pretty good solution for me for logic probes.

Thought the Rigol has active circuitry, the Siglent is passive I believe.

Best,

Why need continue this guess and believe game.

I have told it previously clearly and I say it now again. Siglent SPL2016 is passive. Repeat: SPL~~₂₀₁₅~~2016 is passive. And it stay passive.

Siglent SPL1016 have active circuits inside. It is not passive probe. Signals also go through normal ribbon cable so it have high crosstalk depending of course signals.
And if someone think that ribbon cables are used in many places example inside computers... it is very very different case LA probe we need look signals what are asynchronous and no possible to tell time when read valid data. There is no clock or other method what tell when to read data. Every rising and falling enough sharp edge is easy visible in some other channels, least nearest. I know it, I do not just only believe.

Siglent SPL2016 is fully passive (and quite good) probe with special cable from scope connector box to cable end box. (where is connector for short grabber wires )

tv84 · « **Reply #2451 on:** March 06, 2021, 10:50:42 am »

Quote from: rf-loop on March 06, 2021, 06:02:16 am

Siglent SPL2016 is passive. Repeat: SPL2015 is passive.

Your repetitions are in countdown mode...

oz2cpu · « **Reply #2452 on:** March 06, 2021, 11:05:04 am »

the siglent scope part : i found no pins with supply voltage,
so there is NO way they planned to go active, it is passive, and it will stay that way for a while.

On The Tektronix type there is a missing cut in the pcb edge connector, so their probe is not going into a siglent or lecroy scope,
however: a siglent or lecroy probe, will fit into a tek scobe, but will it work ? or will it blow up the tek scope ?
Who dare to try ? :-)

TK · « **Reply #2453 on:** March 07, 2021, 01:25:06 pm »

Quote from: oz2cpu on March 06, 2021, 11:05:04 am

the siglent scope part : i found no pins with supply voltage,
so there is NO way they planned to go active, it is passive, and it will stay that way for a while.

On The Tektronix type there is a missing cut in the pcb edge connector, so their probe is not going into a siglent or lecroy scope,
however: a siglent or lecroy probe, will fit into a tek scobe, but will it work ? or will it blow up the tek scope ?
Who dare to try ? :-)

Most probably they are not pin compatible, do not even try... it is not worth the risk

oz2cpu · « **Reply #2454 on:** March 07, 2021, 02:13:02 pm »

I agree, but you could not damage a siglent scope, with a tek plug in,
since there is zero voltage out in any of the pins in a siglent

the other way could be worse, since halve of the pins are gnd

Martin72 · « **Reply #2455 on:** March 07, 2021, 03:14:42 pm »

Idea:

Everyone who are interested to have the logic probes but won´t spend the horrible money for the originals, spend 10...30 bucks to one user named.
If the money is enough, he buys the SPL2016 and make a totally teardown of it....

oz2cpu · « **Reply #2456 on:** March 07, 2021, 03:24:56 pm »

ya Martin that is one way : do we want to make 1 : 1 clone ?
or do we want to make a DIY thing that looks all right, and cost almost nothing,
and got the same electrical performance (if we are that lucky time will tell)

Martin72 · « **Reply #2457 on:** March 07, 2021, 03:45:56 pm »

I think, "we" want a thing that will function at the end.
If I didn´t missed something, actually we guess how it must be build inside, not knowing it.

mawyatt · « **Reply #2458 on:** March 07, 2021, 04:13:26 pm »

Think with the information provided by others we should be able make this work, likely not at the speed of the Siglent Analyzer tho. Anyway oz2cpu has created some 3D printed cases for the PCBs which look nice for starters!! See other DIY thread for details.

Best,

dabombers · « **Reply #2459 on:** March 12, 2021, 02:00:10 am »

Hi All, Long time lurker (well seems like a long time while studying Elec Eng.)

Sorry to take this thread away from the Logic Analyser probes convo we got going on here. Bloody bought the probes myself, only used twice to test out. need to spend more time playing around here.

Anyway keep this shortish.

Has anyone tried to contact Siglent to get access to the Software bundle currently on offer with the "Plus" that may have purchased just before it came in October 2020.
I have contacted the vendor I got it from, waiting on a reply ( Only sent this morning so just chilling, it is Friday so no need to be impatient).
Has anyone got the bundle retroactively

?

Before we go down the just unlock it, yeah I know I can do that and it may be the option I choose to get it done. Just trolling really...

tautech · « **Reply #2460 on:** March 12, 2021, 08:28:03 am »

Quote from: dabombers on March 12, 2021, 02:00:10 am

Hi All, Long time lurker (well seems like a long time while studying Elec Eng.)

Sorry to take this thread away from the Logic Analyser probes convo we got going on here. Bloody bought the probes myself, only used twice to test out. need to spend more time playing around here.

Anyway keep this shortish.

Has anyone tried to contact Siglent to get access to the Software bundle currently on offer with the "Plus" that may have purchased just before it came in October 2020.
I have contacted the vendor I got it from, waiting on a reply ( Only sent this morning so just chilling, it is Friday so no need to be impatient).
Has anyone got the bundle retroactively ?

Before we go down the just unlock it, yeah I know I can do that and it may be the option I choose to get it done. Just trolling really...

Welcome to the forum.

Only for stock in transit that arrived after the promotion was announced. That was no problem and I got the licenses the same day.

oz2cpu · « **Reply #2461 on:** March 12, 2021, 12:27:36 pm »

is there an official bug reporting thread somewhere ?
that siglent monitor ?
maybe here on eevblog ? or somewhere else ?

I think i found a bug,
my siglent SPD3303X got odd random time delay between analog channels and logic analyzer.
or ? am i doing something wrong here ?
or is this really how it is supposed to be ?

https://youtu.be/WzokRBxDM-g

PS: i am using my own logic analyzer input pcb, but as you see now with my latest speed trimmed resistor values
the digital to digital channels are perfectly fine, with in 2nS jitter = normal = the time resolution for LA.

This should be very easy to recreate, 25MHz 5V signal

Jeff C · « **Reply #2462 on:** March 12, 2021, 01:44:57 pm »

Hello Oz2cpu,

Bug thread is here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-bugs-missing-features-feature-requests/

mawyatt · « **Reply #2463 on:** March 12, 2021, 02:32:54 pm »

Quote from: oz2cpu on March 12, 2021, 12:27:36 pm

is there an official bug reporting thread somewhere ?
that siglent monitor ?
maybe here on eevblog ? or somewhere else ?

I think i found a bug,
my siglent SPD3303X got odd random time delay between analog channels and logic analyzer.
or ? am i doing something wrong here ?
or is this really how it is supposed to be ?

https://youtu.be/WzokRBxDM-g

PS: i am using my own logic analyzer input pcb, but as you see now with my latest speed trimmed resistor values
the digital to digital channels are perfectly fine, with in 2nS jitter = normal = the time resolution for LA.

This should be very easy to recreate, 25MHz 5V signal

Think what you are seeing are the effects of the non-ideal termination with the logic analyzer cables and PCB interface. You don't know what the actual signal looks like at the LA comparator input since this is inside the scope and not viewable from the outside. Suspect that this signal has some ringing due to improper termination effects and the comparator is not triggering at the same waveform position on every cycle, thus the apparent jitter result.

Best,

oz2cpu · « **Reply #2464 on:** March 12, 2021, 02:57:04 pm »

thanks for your comment Mike,
I understand why you get this idea, but I am not using cables at all,
the point where i measure is directly on the input of the 2 first digital channels, and at that same point is where the scope prope is attached,
so the digital part, can not see any ringings that i would not have seen on analogs.
pcb is populated with : 120R in series with 100k // 8.2pF
if I add another scope probe, and change the zero of analog ch 2, the two analog curves align perfectly, and there is no jitter between the two, as expected.
the ahead time of digital is 16nS (and full of jitter) and can be compensated for in the digital menu, (but dont affect the jitter) this works fine as long as the trigger is analog.
IF the trigger is digital (and you are not unint analogs at all) the deskew adjustment dont work.
but in that case the delay trigger can be used to get it all back on track,
it is no big deal as long as you know what you are playing with.
but another day i need to work on real signals, it could be cool if the scope was in zero when i read zero on curves :-)

mawyatt · « **Reply #2465 on:** March 12, 2021, 05:03:36 pm »

Did you use the values than TK has shown on the HP probe? Also since you are not using a controlled impedance cable, this will have an effect on the waveform at the digital comparator. I don't have a LA so maybe someone with the proper LA can comment on what you are seeing. This is not good performance IMO, how can you determine a narrow logic pulse from this if all the logic edges have than much uncertainty?

Hopefully using the POD with a controlled impedance cable between the POD and the base unit as Siglent and the HP system do, will give better results without this jitter effect. Don't think TK indicated any of this effect with the adapted HP base, cables and POD.

When do you expect the POD PCBs to arrive, and do you have a controlled impedance cable, either a coaxial as Siglent uses, or a twisted pair as HP utilized? A standard ribbon cable may have issues of it's own, which will complicate things even more.

Anyway, good progress so far!!

Best,

oz2cpu · « **Reply #2466 on:** March 12, 2021, 05:51:46 pm »

this is how short it is, no cables :-)
so no reflections, and no delays..
sure there will be delays with cables, and then we need to find the deskew values,
the pod pcb's show up next week,
and by the way, the scope jitter is compared to real data pulse resolution. completely irrelevant , it is just me being to hard to pleasure.

mawyatt · « **Reply #2467 on:** March 12, 2021, 07:09:59 pm »

Yes, but you can't see what's going on inside the scope, or at the connector interface to the PCB, or the other side of scope connector on the scope PCB which I believe is a 50 ohm connector, or at the comparator inputs where the logic decision is made. Maybe someone with the proper OEM Logic Analyzer can comment on if this is typical performance.

Best,

oz2cpu · « **Reply #2468 on:** March 12, 2021, 07:19:47 pm »

all i hear is 91k // 8p2 impedance, must be the input, so it works for both dc, and hi speed and is well protected for over/under voltage.
and with this in series, the logic levels should be correctly decoded,
i also tried the custom level and trimmed it way up and way down,
it only created more confusion, not answers.. :-)
i cant wait for you to play some more with all this too, feels like i am a bit alone in this battle,
I sanded all scope pcb's and right now testing the 6th generation 3D printed shell

mawyatt · « **Reply #2469 on:** March 12, 2021, 07:56:10 pm »

Please take a look at the Spice models for the interface here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/diy-logic-analyzer-probe-and-pods-for-siglent-scopes/25/

Note the HP model resistor and capacitor values. Note that the digital inputs to the probe wire tip "sees" a 250 ohms series resistor then a 91k in parallel with 8.2pF which then feeds the twisted pair cable shown as a 137 ohm transmission line. The other end of the transmission line is terminated to the scope input with some series 370 ohms and shunt 100k (which I don't think matters) and the shunt caps. The shunt caps might represent the capacitance as seen by the PCB that interfaces with the scope connector, this was from the HP schematic provided (the values don't seem unreasonable for the lumped sum of these distributed capacitances).

Best,

DL2XY · « **Reply #2470 on:** March 12, 2021, 07:57:13 pm »

Hello Thomas,

i have tried to reproduce this issue with my adapter.

There is no jitter between analog and digital inputs visible on the screen.
But there defenitly is jitter of -18ns to +12ns as can be seen on the measurement!

Looks like this jitter is compensated for display.

Which firmware are you running? Mine is 1.3.7R5.
On the previous release i had some quirks too.

73 Walter

mawyatt · « **Reply #2471 on:** March 12, 2021, 08:14:14 pm »

Hello Walter,

What logic adapter are you using, is this the OEM Siglent?

Best,

DL2XY · « **Reply #2472 on:** March 12, 2021, 08:19:28 pm »

No, it is diy too.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3094410/#msg3094410

oz2cpu · « **Reply #2473 on:** March 12, 2021, 08:25:46 pm »

here you go Walter

looks like we got exactly the same kind of jitter, and my software is also the latest like yours,

mawyatt · « **Reply #2474 on:** March 12, 2021, 08:42:27 pm »

So this begs the question does the OEM Siglent Logic Analyzer display this kind of behavior?

Maybe tautech can do a quick test for us

Best,


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Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X Plus (Read 748303 times)

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