The EU is enforcing USB-C on portable devices

[bd139]

Ironically now I've got a large box of perfectly good lightning cables which will inevitably end up in the bin. Any thoughts on that?

Use it to charge your perfectly good phone?  It's not like your phone changed it's port overnight.

Well it did because I ordered an iPhone 15 pro yesterday 

[bitwelder]

Ironically now I've got a large box of perfectly good lightning cables which will inevitably end up in the bin. Any thoughts on that?

Buy some Apple(TM) USB-C to Lightning adapters. Only USD 29 a piece! 

[kerouanton]

I'm late on this topic, + the time to read all the previous pages 

I do agree USB-C *may* be a solution to harmonize sockets on portable devices, but there are many issues and questions left in my opinion.

- All HAM operators in the VHF/UHF already noticed that most if not all manufacturers (Yaesu, Icom, Baofeng etc.) have proprietary charging and data cables on most of their portable and handheld radios. It may change in the near future but in my case I'm stuck with different sockets, for example in my Icom, Yaesu and Elecraft devices the RS232-USB cable is in the form of a 3.5mm stereo or trrs jack. Not really standardized, and definitely not USB-C. I hope it will change.

- Putting USB-C sockets on mobiles devices doesn't solve the "hub" issue, when we want to charge/connect multiple devices. There is no daisy-chaining possible, and I assume there are not any cheap hubs with multiple USB-C outputs. I said USB-C, not Thunderbolt (which is a sophisticated but very expensive solution). So users are left with USB-C to USB-A cables as the only solution to plug/charge several devices on a laptop, unless this laptop has several USB-C outputs which is uncommon (except on expensive models, and in that case it's Thunderbolt ports), or if they buy expensive Thunderbolt or dedicated docking stations (In my case I have a Surface Laptop Go, and had to buy the $300 Microsoft docking "brick" with its proprietary Microsoft Surface cable, to add the 3 more USB-C ports on my laptop). Definitely not cheap nor convenient. I had a (quick) look at the Thunderbolt and USB characteristics, and it seems that only Thunderbolt is capable of daisy-chaining, and offering multiple USB-C outputs, do correct me if I'm wrong.

- Another thought I have about those USB-C connectors is their use in industrial environments. I'm used to USB-B connectors for my lab devices (Siglent, etc) but also other "heavy duty" gear because it's more prone to be in environments with risk of damage. I just wish that even if USB-C is enforced for small devices, USB-B or an equivalent of a rugged USB-C will continue to be available for those devices. The Wikipedia overview of USB connectors seem to demonstrate there is nothing planned other than the small USB-C connector for rugged environments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Connector_type_quick_reference. I simply can't imagine industrial equipment in hospitals, factories, aircrafts etc. using fragile and prone to accidental disconnection USB-C sockets.

An analogy is the HDMI sockets are "consumer grade" and fragile, but in the professional environment devices are fitted with SDI BNC sockets, which are much more reliable, solid, allow longer lengths of cables, are locked (BNC) to prevent accidental disconnection, etc.

As an individual and hobbyist, I can't change anything on this, and will passively overlook the manufacturers endorse USB-C for everything, but I anticipate those issues mentioned above in the future !

[Berni]

Well it did because I ordered an iPhone 15 pro yesterday 

And you will get a USB cable with the phone and likely no charger.
So you can use the new USB cable to connect your old charger to your new phone.

I am still using a charger from a old Android Phone from back before USB-C was invented, and have no problems charging my now USB-C phone on it because the new phone came with a USB-A to USB-C cable.

So nothing changes really. Only that Apple can no longer charge royalties for the next charging cable you will buy once the included charging cable falls apart(at least the older apple charging cables tended to fall apart)

[bd139]

Well it did because I ordered an iPhone 15 pro yesterday 

And you will get a USB cable with the phone and likely no charger.
So you can use the new USB cable to connect your old charger to your new phone.

I am still using a charger from a old Android Phone from back before USB-C was invented, and have no problems charging my now USB-C phone on it because the new phone came with a USB-A to USB-C cable.

So nothing changes really. Only that Apple can no longer charge royalties for the next charging cable you will buy once the included charging cable falls apart(at least the older apple charging cables tended to fall apart)

That is correct. Nothing changes. Until there is USB-D!

Worth noting that they don't fall apart of you don't sit there several hours a day with the cable wedged into your stomach because you are too incompetent to charge it at the right time. I still have perfect cables from as far back as 2015!

[Veteran68]

Apple USB-C devices typically ship with USB-C to USB-C cables, not to USB-A cables. At least that's been my experience with my MacBooks and iPad Pro. So old USB-A chargers won't necessarily work.

That said, I don't use those little Apple USB-A block chargers and haven't in years. All of my chargers have USB-C ports on them now, and all my current Lightning cables are USB-C on the charger end.

So I welcome the move to USB-C, it's long overdue. I think Apple would have got there on their own eventually, but obviously they wanted to go on their own terms -- they were milking their lightning cable investment for all they could and I'm sure didn't like being ORDERED to go there. So thanks EU for prompting them along.

I'm also lining up to pre-order my iPhone 15 Pro Max tomorrow morning.

Worth noting that they don't fall apart of you don't sit there several hours a day with the cable wedged into your stomach because you are too incompetent to charge it at the right time. I still have perfect cables from as far back as 2015!

Agreed. I tend to baby my gear. I have Apple cables going back to the old 30-pin cables and probably dozens of Lightening cables by now that look brand new over a decade later.

My wife/kids/grandkids though? They can go through cables faster than you can imagine. I keep reminding them, for example, not to yank out the cables by the cable itself -- grab the connector -- but they don't listen. So I buy basically cheap disposable cables for them. For me, the OEM Apple cables work perfectly fine.

[tom66]

The most baffling thing to me is that Apple ship the iPhone 15 in 2023 with USB 2.0.   We have a few Samsung Galaxy S22 phones (pretty much direct Android competitors to iPhone 14) at work for testing, and these are all USB 3.x.

[David Hess]

Does the legislation require using the PD standard and interoperability?

USB-C and the PD standard allow for crypto graphically secure authentication to enforce vendor lock-in of the charger.  When USB-C first came out, ASICs for implementing it advertised this as a feature.

Personally I have found USB-C to be less rugged than USB-A, and I prefer the later when there is room.  I have destroyed several USB-C connectors already.  The plugs bend and the sockets sheer their soldered connections.

[bd139]

PD interoperability is "variable". If you stick to major brand cables, chargers it mostly works. I stick to Apple and Anker stuff usually and that's fairly robust and reliable.

As for the ruggedness, it's terrible and the failure modes are horrible and half the vendors do not consider connector replacement in the design cycle of their products. For example the latest T14 series of thinkpads, the USB-C connectors are directly soldered to the motherboard. One cable trip and it'll tear the connector shell off the board and take the traces with it. That's nearly impossible to repair effectively so you end up with a USB-C connector that only works one way round or paying to replace the board. Phone vendors, computer vendors all do this. Apart from Apple, where all the connectors are on daughter boards. You get what you pay for!

Lightning was a far better technology here. The standard failure mode was the connector blade would break off inside the phone but could be recovered easily.

[m98]

The most baffling thing to me is that Apple ship the iPhone 15 in 2023 with USB 2.0.   We have a few Samsung Galaxy S22 phones (pretty much direct Android competitors to iPhone 14) at work for testing, and these are all USB 3.x.

What is the use case of USB 3.x speed on a Smartphone?

[bd139]

The most baffling thing to me is that Apple ship the iPhone 15 in 2023 with USB 2.0.   We have a few Samsung Galaxy S22 phones (pretty much direct Android competitors to iPhone 14) at work for testing, and these are all USB 3.x.

What is the use case of USB 3.x speed on a Smartphone?

Pulling large quantities of photos and videos off quickly usually.

Personally I don't care about this in 2023.

[ConKbot]

The most baffling thing to me is that Apple ship the iPhone 15 in 2023 with USB 2.0.   We have a few Samsung Galaxy S22 phones (pretty much direct Android competitors to iPhone 14) at work for testing, and these are all USB 3.x.

What is the use case of USB 3.x speed on a Smartphone?

Putting media on/off the phone because have media that you own rather than a parade of streaming services that only have what they have till their license expires. Or want to have for offline usage where mobile service may not be freely available. I.e. load song and movie library onto phone before a flight, to not have to rely on questionable speed satellite internet if that airline isn't using starlink.

[bd139]

The most baffling thing to me is that Apple ship the iPhone 15 in 2023 with USB 2.0.   We have a few Samsung Galaxy S22 phones (pretty much direct Android competitors to iPhone 14) at work for testing, and these are all USB 3.x.

What is the use case of USB 3.x speed on a Smartphone?

Putting media on/off the phone because have media that you own rather than a parade of streaming services that only have what they have till their license expires. Or want to have for offline usage where mobile service may not be freely available. I.e. load song and movie library onto phone before a flight, to not have to rely on questionable speed satellite internet if that airline isn't using starlink.

You can do that via VLC over WiFi. That's usually what I do. But most of the streaming services allow you to take offline cache.

TBF I don't have much of a need to move media on and off. It just happens.

[Berni]

USB 3.0 is not that big of a deal since for transfering files 480Mbit is still decent. But yeah with phones pushing performance in all places, it seams fitting to have 3.x

For example Apples lightning to HDMI adspters encode video to H264 or similar, send it over USB 2.0 then have a SOC from an older iPhone in the dongle to play back the streaming video out to HDMI. No need for any of that in USB-C

Oh and personaly i havent had Lightning cables break so much, but i seen others break them a lot.

[tszaboo]

USB 3.0 is not that big of a deal since for transfering files 480Mbit is still decent. But yeah with phones pushing performance in all places, it seams fitting to have 3.x

For example Apples lightning to HDMI adspters encode video to H264 or similar, send it over USB 2.0 then have a SOC from an older iPhone in the dongle to play back the streaming video out to HDMI. No need for any of that in USB-C

Oh and personaly i havent had Lightning cables break so much, but i seen others break them a lot.

Well, the point is, they even have it connected in the USB port and the SOC and disabling it because "buy the bigger one if you need this". The phone has Displayport output, which is using the high speed TX-RX pairs. So it's just the usual middle finger from apple.

[schmitt trigger]

There was also the hilarious claim from the Australian prime minister:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathematics-dont-apply-here-says-australian-pm/

They ware pushing for companies running chat applications with end to end encryption to have to hand over chat logs to the authorities. Even after being explained to him why doing this is not technologically possible he said they should do it anyway. Since after all: "The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia"

Would this mean that the Universal Gravitational Law doesn’t apply either to Australia?
Boy, I have to experience that myself.

[tom66]

The most baffling thing to me is that Apple ship the iPhone 15 in 2023 with USB 2.0.   We have a few Samsung Galaxy S22 phones (pretty much direct Android competitors to iPhone 14) at work for testing, and these are all USB 3.x.

What is the use case of USB 3.x speed on a Smartphone?

The iPhone is capable of 4K60 recording.  That's a lot of data to transfer off if you use USB 2.0.  Most USB2.0 devices max out somewhere around 250-300Mbit/s real world transfer rates once overheads are included, whereas USB3.0 usually hits the flash memory read limit first.

Also, with USB-C there are now USB3 accessories available, like an external flash drive, that would benefit from faster transfer speeds.

If you fill up the 128GB onboard storage, USB2.0 would take over an hour to transfer.  If we assume the internal flash can be read around 100MB/s (it's likely to be even faster), USB3 shortens that to a third.

Edited: to correct silly error.

[Veteran68]

The most baffling thing to me is that Apple ship the iPhone 15 in 2023 with USB 2.0.   We have a few Samsung Galaxy S22 phones (pretty much direct Android competitors to iPhone 14) at work for testing, and these are all USB 3.x.

iPhone 15 Pro has USB 3. It's typical Apple to only include the more significant/newest features in the Pro line upon release, then the next year it will likely be included in the base line. I would expect most people who are serious about things like 4k60 streaming would be opting for the Pro models anyway.



That said, I rarely use a USB connection to transfer anything from my phone, as I'm all-in with cloud services, so it's only a "meh" upgrade for me.

[tom66]

The most baffling thing to me is that Apple ship the iPhone 15 in 2023 with USB 2.0.   We have a few Samsung Galaxy S22 phones (pretty much direct Android competitors to iPhone 14) at work for testing, and these are all USB 3.x.

iPhone 15 Pro has USB 3. It's typical Apple to only include the more significant/newest features in the Pro line upon release, then the next year it will likely be included in the base line. I would expect most people who are serious about things like 4k60 streaming would be opting for the Pro models anyway.



That said, I rarely use a USB connection to transfer anything from my phone, as I'm all-in with cloud services, so it's only a "meh" upgrade for me.

Indeed, it's very Apple to do something like this, but for an $800+ smartphone it's quite a silly limitation IMO... given almost all of the competition does have USB3.0 and it's just a case of turning it on in software.  Either way I don't care, I'm not buying an iPhone 15 any time soon.  It's essentially the same phone as the 13 and 14 besides a few cosmetic and performance improvements.  There's nothing game changing from Apple any more.  I think the last game changing feature was Face ID and Touch ID before that. 

[switchabl]

The non-pro version seems to be based on a last generation SoC (A16) which may not support USB3.

[Veteran68]

...so it's only a "meh" upgrade for me.

I should clarify that I meant USB 3 was only a "meh" upgrade for me. As for the iPhone 15 itself, I'm definitely upgrading my 12 Pro Max to the 15 Pro Max (I completed my pre-order this morning). I normally upgrade every 2 years (every other generation) but was holding out for USB-C. I was disappointed when it didn't come with the 14, and decided to wait another year.

The non-pro version seems to be based on a last generation SoC (A16) which may not support USB3.

Yes, the non-Pro line is based on the A16 and I was thinking that may well be the reason.

[tom66]

The non-pro version seems to be based on a last generation SoC (A16) which may not support USB3.

The iPad Pro 2018 had USB 3.0 on a type C connector.  It had an A12 chip.  It's possible that Apple deleted this function from later SoC, but given the A16 does support DisplayPort 4K HDR over USB (as another poster points out) it at least has the phy blocks to do USB3 signalling... so IMO it's probably a software lockout or possibly an eFuse blown on the die.

[switchabl]

AFAIK DP alternate mode does require a USB PD phy for negotiation but no SuperSpeed phy. The USB part is really just a fancy mux.

EDIT: You also need at least USB LS on D+/D- as a fallback (billboard device) to be compliant but I guess it would technically work without even this.

[PlainName]

Just to butt in, anyone using the a lovely Android and who can't be faffed with cables could do worse than install WiFi File Transfer from the Play store. Super easy and quick just point a browser at your phone and do the biz like that.

[Veteran68]

Just to butt in, anyone using the a lovely Android and who can't be faffed with cables could do worse than install WiFi File Transfer from the Play store. Super easy and quick just point a browser at your phone and do the biz like that.

I guess I should point out that as a long-time iPhone user, when I *do* need to do some local transfer (vs cloud), I typically do so over Wifi. I bought iMazing which is far more useful than iTunes for things like that. Between using iMazing to backup or transfer media, and using Calibre Companion over WiFi to transfer eBooks, I rarely have a need for USB transfer.