Author Topic: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)  (Read 3086133 times)

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Online Muttley Snickers

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6300 on: November 23, 2016, 01:52:05 am »
Can somebody please go around and give that poor fellow a jump start, seems pretty obvious that he has no idea and perhaps doesn't fully comprehend battery technology, the Batteroo shiny things simply aren't up to the task in this instance.
 

Offline SL4P

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6301 on: November 23, 2016, 02:28:10 am »
With *any* units having left production, and Boob's obvious awareness of EEVblog, it would seem eminently positive to send some units to Dave for review - even if they suck.
That conversation would put an end to all the backroom sniggers and entertainment which this thread offers so many people*. (Be careful - Boob may decide to become an entertainer in Donald & Kanye's shadow).

I suspect 'thick-skinned' Boob likes the limelight - in the same way Donald Trump does.
It may bring him down eventually, but he has the glory, attention and fake friends - just like Donald.


* what would I read each day if Batteriseroo didn't keep us entertained?

(P.S. I apologise to my late father - also Don - for any disrespect cast on that proud Scottish name).
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Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6302 on: November 23, 2016, 02:38:59 am »
I think these dark spots on the photo are the PCB.

Disagree.



There is no shadow because it's behind the thick plastic divider
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6303 on: November 23, 2016, 02:56:12 am »
Actually, I revise my thinking on this, I don't think there is a PCB.


Note the dark half shadow through the right side "+" cutout. It's as if there is no circular PCB behind it and the shadow of the curved metal top is coming through.
Then the "+" hole next to it has a shorter shadow, then almost nothing, and then nothing on the left. Exactly what you'd expect based on the angle of the photo.

 

Offline ez24

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6304 on: November 23, 2016, 03:08:31 am »
Actually, I revise my thinking on this, I don't think there is a PCB.


Note the dark half shadow through the right side "+" cutout. It's as if there is no circular PCB behind it and the shadow of the curved metal top is coming through.
Then the "+" hole next to it has a shorter shadow, then almost nothing, and then nothing on the left. Exactly what you'd expect based on the angle of the photo.

My thoughts also.  These are the prototypes (w/o electronics) that were made to get the fools interested in throwing their money away.  Among other things why would they produce punched sleeves considering that it would add considerable costs, but looked cool in the prototypes.  The "Greek" is Bob sitting in his car holding his prototype.  I just get a kick out of people still believing in this.   :-DD

He is probably celebrating the fact that he bought his BMW with funds raised on this scam.  He must be a very happy man.
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Offline LabSpokane

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6305 on: November 23, 2016, 03:17:00 am »
Actually, I revise my thinking on this, I don't think there is a PCB.


I concur.  Bros. Roohparvar have skated onto very thin legal ice with this. 

Not smart.  Not smart at all.
 

Online Muttley Snickers

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6306 on: November 23, 2016, 03:27:15 am »
Don't go wasting those bloody sleeves Bob, sooner or later they might come in handy for something else.   :popcorn: 
 
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Online Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6307 on: November 23, 2016, 03:51:34 am »
I'd be careful being too critical on this photo.  There might be a PCB in there.

Certainly the PCB will be as high up as possible, but it will be circular in shape - which means at the angle the photo was taken, it will appear as an ellipse - so you might be seeing part of the back half of the PCB.  You also only have 1mm of space for it - which, from my estimation, means it will have to fit in the space between the top of the sleeve and a point half way between there and the top edge of the '+' sign.

Also, you will note there are some moulded ribs in the case - and there appears to be the beginning of a raised section visible as one just passes under the sleeves.  This would provide lateral stability in the positioning of the sleeves - a professional touch so that they present equally spaced.  This raised section clearly could extend up far enough to be the material visible through the '+' sign cutout.  Add to that the fact that there is significant back lighting on the case - and you could well have the light pipe effect, which is going to mess up the shadow expectations.

The one thing that doesn't seem to fit is the light and dark visible through the rightmost '+' sign cutout.
 

Offline ez24

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6308 on: November 23, 2016, 04:22:35 am »
Does anyone know if Las Vegas is making odds on this? 
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Online Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6309 on: November 23, 2016, 04:52:56 am »
Perhaps my biggest concern is that we may spend countless hours debating the "Why's" and "Wherefore's" of a photo such as this - and that the credibility of the Engineering fraternity as a whole is going to be defined by these types of discussion.

By casting a few morsels before the ravenous hoard and letting them go into a feeding frenzy, the apparent desperation to 'attack' is going to become the definitive measure of the Engineering position - at least as far as the public perception is concerned.  And that is all the Batteroo boys would need to do....


It may well be that they do have a product and, if so, we are already making it easier for them to release it...

1. Delays.
Once the product is actually released, then the delays will be summarily forgotten by those who have been waiting - they will be so happy to have received them!  The response from the 'faithful' will be something along the lines of "Oh, you poor little engineers.  You said there was no product - but here it is!".  Bob and Co might come up with a couple of more 'reasons' for the delays, but it won't matter.  The punters couldn't care less - they will have their sleeves.

2. Function.
Engineers (and others) have been critical of the fact that the Batteroo sleeves will not perform as (originally) advertised - but the perception has been that the Engineers are saying they will not work at all.  This is clealry an incorrect perception that only needs a sleeve to do what is expected by the customer for 60 seconds (or even less) for the howls of denigration to flow like a Tsunami.  Batteroo has won!  Forget the fact that it might cease to do so in the second minute.

Engineers have also been apprehensive about higher current capability from the beginning, but since the performance claims have been dialled back, there is less strength in that argument.


These functional failings may well have been problems that Batteroo have been trying to address, but without success - something which would be no surprise to us.  However, to successfully release the product, then they would need to do two things - manage expectations and discredit the critics.

Managing expectations has been easy.  They have simply adjusted their claims to something more modest - without saying the Engineering critics were right.  The average punter will either not have noticed and/or will see that as something they feel is more 'real'.  Remember, even some of the fanboys considered the Batteriser worth having even if it was only a quarter as good.

Discrediting the critics is going to be really simple.  The more we carry on about a range of issues, the more high profile the banner we are holding.  All Bob has to do is produce a product that does something and we will have given him the perfect distraction.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 04:55:30 am by Brumby »
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6310 on: November 23, 2016, 04:56:25 am »
Perhaps my biggest concern is that we may spend countless hours debating the "Why's" and "Wherefore's" of a photo such as this - and that the credibility of the Engineering fraternity as a whole is going to be defined by these types of discussion.

I think it's clear this is a discussion forum like any other internet forum. Posts here unless they include data or references are simply opinion and discussion.
Every post here is certainly not the industry "engineering position".
 

Online Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6311 on: November 23, 2016, 05:18:19 am »
I quite agree - but the fact is that the EEVblog forum is presented as a forum for EEs and has a global credibility as such.  How many forums do Keysight take an active interest?

There is a lot of interest on this subject ... and both this forum and yourself have been cited by others.

This may not be an official EE industry platform - but as far as the internet is concerned, it is just as good.
 

Online Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6312 on: November 23, 2016, 05:22:06 am »
If Bob does have a product, he is not going to be interested in fighting an engineering war - he will be focussing on marketing and spin.

Opinions expressed here will have quite enough credibility to be effective in that.
 

Offline SL4P

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6313 on: November 23, 2016, 05:24:06 am »
...the apparent desperation to 'attack' is going to become the definitive measure of the Engineering position - at least as far as the public perception is concerned...
That may not be a bad thing.  It separates the ''men'' from the ''boys''!

The 'non-engineering' crowd are accepted at face value for public adulation and promotion as examples of human success (ref: Kanye West, Kardashians, Donald Trump, and many others)... the values of measurement are not documented metrics of rational comparison.

If BatterBoob is trying to ascend into this crowd, he's using the right tools - wealth, loud talking, media exposure).  If he was trying to be seen as a pillar of moral & intellectual growth - he certainly would have dropped the baby Boob much earlier than this.  His high-ground of 'success' would be a much shorter step than crawling out from under all those lies and half-truths!
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 05:25:41 am by SL4P »
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Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6314 on: November 23, 2016, 05:36:51 am »
The PCB was always shown as being on top of the sleeve, not under a lip at the top....

So that would mean the PCB would be visible in the "backers" picture, on top of the sleeve..

 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6315 on: November 23, 2016, 06:13:44 am »
Another claim of someone getting one. And an excuse form Bob about tracking.

 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6316 on: November 23, 2016, 06:19:36 am »
I concur.  Bros. Roohparvar have skated onto very thin legal ice with this. 

Not smart.  Not smart at all.
But do we actually know they are behind this series of photos? What could they gain from this?
I'm not saying I know they're not involved just asking what evidence exists.

I think it is a prank. Given the response, it is not a bad one. If it was someone wanting to show actual received products it could have been done more conveniently and convincingly. But it hasn't been.

I am doubting prank at this point.  Everyone is asking, "where's the product?"  Then, a photo of the outside of the package is shown in a car, in "Greece."  Then after a firestorm of criticism, the user then *returns to the car* of all places, and takes another photo of the sleeves in the package, but a a perfect angle that hides all the detail?  Not at home / in an office / elsewhere with the unit installed on a battery?  And every, single photo except for the few from early on, omits a view the PCB.  How convenient.   ::)

I've been trying to cut Bros. Roohparvar a ton of slack on this - that this was a venture intended to deliver a physical, functional product - but there has been an unambiguous pattern of calculated (mis)behavior to conceal and deceive.  I have absolutely no reason or evidence left that this supposed photo of order receipt in Greece is simply not more of the same. 

Everyone with any modicum of intellectual curiosity would take photos more illustrative than what has been shown.  I call bullshit on this Greece user.  I'm prepared to be very wrong, but I'm 99% sure I'm not. 

There will be subsequent photos.  And I'm taking beer bets on whether any of them show anything interesting. 
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 06:36:58 am by LabSpokane »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6317 on: November 23, 2016, 06:43:21 am »
There is no shadow because it's behind the thick plastic divider

His finger is behind thick plastic and you can see it perfectly.


« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 06:57:09 am by Fungus »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6318 on: November 23, 2016, 06:47:24 am »
He is probably celebrating the fact that he bought his BMW with funds raised on this scam.  He must be a very happy man.

We know he couldn't afford a new one.  :popcorn:



 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6319 on: November 23, 2016, 06:54:09 am »


When delivering to the EU, does BMW print the turn signal stalk indicators in *English*?
 

Offline Barny

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6320 on: November 23, 2016, 07:00:00 am »
Why english? Its German -> Links / Rechts

Fun aside.
The only visible diference betweenn the US and the EU version is the kph / mph display in the tachometer.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6321 on: November 23, 2016, 07:00:50 am »
When delivering to the EU, does BMW print the turn signal stalk indicators in *English*?

I believe so.
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6322 on: November 23, 2016, 07:07:50 am »
Why english? Its German -> Links / Rechts.
And so my movie German vocabulary of nein, achtung, and schnell fails me. :palm:
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6323 on: November 23, 2016, 07:09:36 am »
Fun aside.
The only visible diference betweenn the US and the EU version is the kph / mph display in the tachometer.

The speedo in that car has the dual kph / mph markings. That suggests it's for UK/USA/etc. market (or somewhere else where they use miles).

So: How many countries use miles and have left-hand drive? Certainly not Greece.

Edit: I take that back. It's not clear if it has the dual markings or not.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 07:18:59 am by Fungus »
 

Offline McBryce

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6324 on: November 23, 2016, 09:03:51 am »
In that particular model they only had km/h on the left hand drive EU version. So mp/h would be a give away.

For reference, here's a picture of the dash for the exact model he's sitting in: http://cdn.johnywheels.com/2015/08/24/dashboardbmw3seriescompacte460392001acirc05-l-829e4da47a5e3513.jpg

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