EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[PeterL]

As you may recall, we initially planned to ship the 500 milli-amp beta version of the Batteriser

No, this is what I recall:

Are there limitations on devices that can use the Batteriser based on the current consumptions? No, the Batteriser sleeve is designed to deliver as much current as a battery is able to supply to the device.

It's still in your FAQ Bob!

[Fungus]

As you may recall, we initially planned to ship the 500 milli-amp beta version of the Batteriser

No, this is what I recall:

Are there limitations on devices that can use the Batteriser based on the current consumptions? No, the Batteriser sleeve is designed to deliver as much current as a battery is able to supply to the device.

It's still in your FAQ Bob!

As noted above: 500mA is about as much current as a battery is able to supply (in practice).

[EEVblog]

But assuming you have brand new cells, what happens if your digital camera needs 2 amps to charge the flash capacitor?
Remember, they started claiming that the batteriser was to reduce voltage dips that occur when there's a current spike, from the load, on the battery...

Correct. That's why their whole video thing about the current spikes was a farce. A DC-DC converter, especially an ultra-miniature one with necessarily small output capacitance hasn't got a hope in hell of providing for those high current spike requirements.

Is exceeding the current limit going to result in the voltage dropping just as much, if not more than not having a butteriser on the cell at all? Especially seeing you have basically zero capacitance after the boost regulator...

Yep.

[EEVblog]

Are there limitations on devices that can use the Batteriser based on the current consumptions? No, the Batteriser sleeve is designed to deliver as much current as a battery is able to supply to the device.

It's still in your FAQ Bob!

Their story is so full of holes, all the electrons have fallen out.

[McBryce]

Are there limitations on devices that can use the Batteriser based on the current consumptions? No, the Batteriser sleeve is designed to deliver as much current as a battery is able to supply to the device.

It's still in your FAQ Bob!

Their story is so full of holes, all the electrons have fallen out.

And that's 800% more electrons than were actually in it in the first place!

McBryce.

[SL4P]

Well - even if the electrons have fallen out the holes, they still have plenty of 'dopes' creating the junctions.

(To be honest, I feel bad with all this character assassination, but Batteroo keep walking into the line of fire - over and over again!.  I remember Charles Darwin had some comments about this kind of behaviour.)

[FrankBuss]

As noted above: 500mA is about as much current as a battery is able to supply (in practice).

No, it's not. As described in this posting you referenced, you can draw 2.2 A from a battery at 0.7 V, even after it was discharged by 200 mAh (this is less than 15% of the capacity according to the post). And still more than an amp when discharged by more than 15%. The post doesn't say how long it can supply this current, but I guess at least for some seconds, maybe longer than a 500 mA version of the Batteriser would survive it.

[PeterL]

As you may recall, we initially planned to ship the 500 milli-amp beta version of the Batteriser

No, this is what I recall:

Are there limitations on devices that can use the Batteriser based on the current consumptions? No, the Batteriser sleeve is designed to deliver as much current as a battery is able to supply to the device.

It's still in your FAQ Bob!

As noted above: 500mA is about as much current as a battery is able to supply (in practice).

Yeah, I do understand all that.
What I wanted to point out is how they speak against themselves with this '500 milli-amp beta' statement.

Anyway this project has failed already big time. They have a product that should appeal to almost every citizen in the world, and from those 7,000,000,000 potential buyers they could only find some 7000 willing to give it a try. VC's will be very disappointed now, and the only thing that can safe them now is a batteriser that actually performs as stated, and so attracts significantly more buyers. And I don't see that happening...

[g.lewarne]

number of backers has gone down again!  (big surprise)

How does a boost converter behave if current draw exceeds its design limits?  does it shut off? overheat and die? burst into flames?

[SeanB]

Normally burst into flames, as the internal switch goes to near 100% on time, and if the current limiting in the switch is working it just goes to 90 odd percent and the inductor cooks itself. If the switch goesa to 100% and no limiting then the chip cooks itself.

[rrinker]

Bob says deliveries in January now. Eternal optimist.

Ah, but January of WHAT YEAR?

[mikerj]

Normally burst into flames, as the internal switch goes to near 100% on time, and if the current limiting in the switch is working it just goes to 90 odd percent and the inductor cooks itself. If the switch goesa to 100% and no limiting then the chip cooks itself.

You would hope that Batterieser would have designed thermal protection into their imaginary boost converter. After all, they are promoting it on safety grounds 

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

There seems to be a little interest in my post:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-751-how-to-debunk-a-product-%28the-batteriser%29/msg809012/#msg809012

In this post I talk about the maximum power that can be extracted from a partially discharged AA cell. Remember this is power out of the cell, and does not include any conversion losses in the boost converter.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

I am running out of pop-corn.

[Kalvin]

Quite often these crowd funded project show pictures about the progress. Not in this case, although the batteriser people have tried to keep high and loud public profile otherwise. What I have seen are only some rendered photos, some vague tests performed by few magazines (which were not too successful) and faulty technical specifications and claims. Where are the photos of smiling campaign people when getting final prototypes prior launching the actual production, photos of actual pre-production devices, measurement results of pre-production units, photos of "Hey guys, here we are assembling the devices, here are the first 100 units ready to be shipped out". Nothing. This stinks.

[Fungus]

Quite often these crowd funded project show pictures about the progress. Not in this case, although the batteriser people have tried to keep high and loud public profile otherwise. What I have seen are only some rendered photos, some vague tests performed by few magazines (which were not too successful) and faulty technical specifications and claims. Where are the photos of smiling campaign people when getting final prototypes prior launching the actual production, photos of actual pre-production devices, measurement results of pre-production units, photos of "Hey guys, here we are assembling the devices, here are the first 100 units ready to be shipped out". Nothing. This stinks.

Yep. There's not a single photo of anything. No Chinese worker holding a pink battery clip, no trays of Batteriser chips, NOTHING.

My prediction is that this whole thing is fake. It will end in a series of 'accidents' and 'natural disasters' followed by: "We did our best but we ran out of money and can't finish making them, sorry."

There's no way the Batteriser Brothers can actually ship anything, they have too much to lose.  Running out of money is their only face-saving option at this point.


(That landslide last week must have been too good to be true for them... and it just happened to be their factory that was built under that mountain, right?)

[Bud]

Another good one: devaluation of the Yuan.

[SeanB]

Vapourware factory for sure, built only in an area that is now busy being dug out.

[FrankBuss]

(That landslide last week must have been too good to be true for them... and it just happened to be their factory that was built under that mountain, right?)

Right, highly unlikely, they must have really bad luck. Wikipedia says that the landslide covered an area of ten hectares, that's 0.1 km^2, and 33 buildings where destroyed. The area of Shenzhen is 2050 km^2, so the landslide affected 0.005 % of it (that's 50 ppm). I couldn't find a list of the buildings, would be interesting if there was any factory at all.

Edit: I read their announcement again and it is the same as with their other tricky descriptions: They didn't say that their factory was destroyed by the landslide, which you would assume, but they are using the disaster just as an excuse for the delay. If someone ask them why, they could say everything goes slower in Shenzhen because of the cleanup work etc.

[Godzil]

(That landslide last week must have been too good to be true for them... and it just happened to be their factory that was built under that mountain, right?)

Right, highly unlikely, they must have really bad luck. Wikipedia says that the landslide covered an area of ten hectares, that's 0.1 km^2, and 33 buildings where destroyed. The area of Shenzhen is 2050 km^2, so the landslide affected 0.005 % of it (that's 50 ppm). I couldn't find a list of the buildings, would be interesting if there was any factory at all.

That's simple, a few Kickstarter I pledged that are still in the production process or near shipping that come from China, and especially the Shenzhen are absolutely unaffected by this landslide, so.. Either they are just liar, or have a very bad luck..

I'm more about one of the two solutions to be honest.

[g.lewarne]

makes you wonder what their *planned" delay was going to be?  Then like a gift from the gods, a tragedy gives them something actually somewhat verifiable.  Well, whetever their planned excuse was going to be, that will be the next one.

I'll bet 500 quatloos that there will be some sort of shipping "delay" getting the stuff out of china to their "US Warehouse"

[SeanB]

If they can spin till mid Jan then the virtual close of the entire PRC for new years will be that excuse. My guess is they will either be "experiencing a supply chain slowdown due to the Government cracking down on pollution", "The coating is being delayed due to an external subcontractor being late with delivery", " the pcb supplier has experienced an equipment malfunction".

[SL4P]

They could go 'all honest' - and say...

"Dear Backers: We have been let down by a trusted member of the Batteroo engineering team, who has been identified - and now left the company (with entitlements).  His motives were ill-formed, and distracted by the hacker/developer community.  We have to blame someone, and this (someone) has let us all down."

"We regret that due to invalid research metrics, and data produced by this team member, Batteroo are unable to proceed with the Batteriser project.   This is a disappointing end to this project which was on track to save the planet, run 'Big Battery' into the ground, and feed starving children across the globe."

TRANSLATED: We have collected enough money, (someone) has resigned from the company, and we're all off to the beach.... and my dog died (after eating the schematics).

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Or

I am sorry my dog ate the Monkey and we are unable to test ...

Jay_Diddy_B

[LabSpokane]

  Running out of money is their only face-saving option at this point.

Batteroo was out of money before the IGG campaign ever got underway.  There simply is not enough money to meet the commitments without diving into someone's pocket. 

[Kjelt]

"We are currently testing in another galaxy"