EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[ErikTheNorwegian]

George Blomgren, Chief Scientist, Lion Cells Dr.  George  E.  Blomgren evolved from a theoretical chemist into a battery  expert,  first by earning  a B.S. in chemistry from Northwestern University in 1952 and a Ph.D.  in physical chemistry from  the University of Washington  in 1956. After a post-doc at Columbia University,  he  began a  41  -year  career  with  Union Carbide Corp.  which  evolved into the Eveready Battery Co.   His early work  with  UCC  involved statistical mechanical theories of liquids,  electrolyte solutions,  and molten salts.  This led to a group leader  position in the Battery Products Division in 1963 with  a focus on the  then-new lithium batteries.  His work  on electrolytes prepared the way in  1971  to filing  the first patent  on lithium liquid cathode batteries in which the liquid (e.g., thionyl chloride) serves as both  the solvent for  the electrolyte salt and the active  cathode material. This dual  role  allows very  high  energy to be packed in the container,  thus forming  the highest energy primary battery in use  today.  His work  also led to the lithium-ion disulfide battery,  which  the company developed into  a commercial product,  first as  a button cell and then as an  AA  and AAA cell.  His reward was the highest technical position  at  Eveready - Senior Technology Fellow. After retirement  he  started a  new  career  consulting  with companies around  the world on battery technology and  applications.  He also has presented invited  papers at  many  meetings in  the  U.S., Europe, and Asia  to the delight of his wife Gerry, who is always ready to pack up and  go with him.  George  was Associate Editor  of the Journal of the Electrochemical Society,  Chair  of the  ECS Battery Division,  and adjunct professor  at Carnegie Mellon universities.   He continues as adjunct professor  at Case Western Reserve University in the Department of Chemical Engineering.   With  the formation of the new company "Lion Cells, Inc.", George became a founder and the Chief Scientist in 2006.

From. https://www.google.no/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://web.mit.edu/dsadoway/www/Participant%2520List%2520and%2520Bios.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjHqfuW_P7JAhWEnnIKHcX1AWEQFgggMAI&usg=AFQjCNEpPzp2TGfSsc0A47twHmggx2qr4A&sig2=hb_PfytrtqQnRKMvfCb5vg

[Fungus]

Batteriser will probably use this as part of their "out"; Big Battery killing the Batteriser - it's perfect for them!

What if Batteroo changes the Batteriser to something else like Batteroo. Then there won't be any reason not to ship the devices. If that is the case, then using the Big Battery as an excuse will be invalid.

Why on earth would they want to ship anything? 

[Kalvin]

Batteriser will probably use this as part of their "out"; Big Battery killing the Batteriser - it's perfect for them!

What if Batteroo changes the Batteriser to something else like Batteroo. Then there won't be any reason not to ship the devices. If that is the case, then using the Big Battery as an excuse will be invalid.

Why on earth would they want to ship anything? 

Indeed. My comment was that they cannot use the Big Battery as an excuse not to ship the devices. They have to come up with something else as an excuse, something like the dog ate the schematics or the cat peed into the laptop.

[Fungus]

Why on earth would they want to ship anything? 

Indeed. My comment was that they cannot use the Big Battery as an excuse not to ship the devices.

Sure they can.  Just watch them do it over the next few weeks...

"We were just loading the last pallet of Batterisers on the truck ready for shipping when this awful letter arrived. Unfortunately we can't ship the Batterisers as-is, and there's no money left to make another batch.

We're completely gutted at not being able to ship you your Batterisers but there's nothing we can do. We've been fighting off Big Battery since day one but they finally caught up with us.

Sorry, Bob R."

[Barny]

Rename the product DurexCell. It's a sleeve over a stick anyway.

 

Isn't "Durex" a brand of adhesive tape in Austria? 

No, thats Tixo.

Durex have the same usage in Austria like in the rest of the world

[grumpydoc]

Rename the product DurexCell. It's a sleeve over a stick anyway.

 

Isn't "Durex" a brand of adhesive tape in Austria? 

ITYM Australia

Apparently it was, but is no longer. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Durex

[SL4P]

Blomgren  may have some chops in battery chemistry, but that doesn't mean anything in the Batteriser scheme of things - Batteroo don't make batteries, and have no means of changing the chemistry of a battery with a Batteriser attached....  Energiser, Duracell and others know how batteries work, and it doesn't have anything to do with boost converters.  He's an old mate, being called in to 'legitimise' Bob's claims for the Batteriser.

Where there's smoke, there's usually a heat source - and it could be a Batteriser!

[LabSpokane]

The constant shuffling of the "experts" is all one needs to know that the pandering to unwitting / half-wit investors continues unabated. The actual science is irrelevant as long as all the suits around the table smile and nod at the appropriate intervals in the PowerPoint presentation. How so few players can both do that and deliver four new products on time ...

... Oh yeah, that's right. They aren't. 

[Brumby]

Blomgren  may have some chops in battery chemistry, but that doesn't mean anything in the Batteriser scheme of things - Batteroo don't make batteries, and have no means of changing the chemistry of a battery with a Batteriser attached....  Energiser, Duracell and others know how batteries work, and it doesn't have anything to do with boost converters.

I disagree.  One of the chief arguments against the Batteriser stems from the depleted chemistry not being able to deliver the necessary power.  Bringing in someone who has expertise in that area will allow them to prostitute themselves attest to the capability of the chemistry.  Sure it's BS, but the objective for any scam is to obfuscate the truth to as many suckers as possible.

[mikerj]

Blomgren  may have some chops in battery chemistry, but that doesn't mean anything in the Batteriser scheme of things - Batteroo don't make batteries, and have no means of changing the chemistry of a battery with a Batteriser attached....  Energiser, Duracell and others know how batteries work, and it doesn't have anything to do with boost converters.

I disagree.  One of the chief arguments against the Batteriser stems from the depleted chemistry not being able to deliver the necessary power.  Bringing in someone who has expertise in that area will allow them to prostitute themselves attest to the capability of the chemistry.  Sure it's BS, but the objective for any scam is to obfuscate the truth to as many suckers as possible.

OTOH, if they ever shipped anything they would have no excuse for the performance to suck with discharged cells since they have a battery expert on board.

[JoeO]

This link may have been posted previously, but I see in the fine detail, that a Trade Mark opposition was lodged & accepted two weeks ago (15 Dec 2015)
https://trademarks.justia.com/865/71/batteriser-86571275.html

EDIT: Added:
Big Battery are in the court.  Wait for sparks to fly.
http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/2oy0gcdxs/uspto-trademark-trial-and-appeal-board/energizer-brands-llc-v-batteroo-inc/

Interestingly, they seem to be going after the risk of consumer confusion between ENERGIZER anbd BATTERISER...

To the outside world this looks like Big Battery is going after Batteroo for extending the useful life of batteries when in fact they are going after the trademark portion.

This can give them an out, "Big Battery took us out".

[Halcyon]

"We were just loading the last pallet of Batterisers on the truck ready for shipping when this awful letter arrived. Unfortunately we can't ship the Batterisers as-is, and there's no money left to make another batch.

We're completely gutted at not being able to ship you your Batterisers but there's nothing we can do. We've been fighting off Big Battery since day one but they finally caught up with us.

Sorry, Bob R."

If they've been "fighting off big battery since day one"... why did they continue to make such ludacris claims all this time? I think we all see through Roohparvar's lies by now. There probably wasn't any pallet of Batterisers either.

Did they stop part-way through loading the truck when they decided to open their mail? I think not.

EDIT:

That quote was a facetious invention of Fungus. It's not real.

Amended post as per above.

[Fungus]

If they've been "fighting off big battery since day one"... why did they continue to make such ludacris claims all this time?

Because they're after venture capital.

As much money as possible.

[Howardlong]

If they've been "fighting off big battery since day one"... why did they continue to make such ludacris claims all this time?

Because they're after venture capital.

As much money as possible.

But the astonishing thing is that it worked: until the likes of uBeam and Batteriser I at least thought that VCs actually would attempt and take note of any reasonable due diligence. Right now, their attitude to due diligence is pretty much the same as disgraced Fred the Shred had at the Royal Bank Of Scotland when he just bought anything: now that bank is essentially nationalised as it's majority owned by uk.gov as a result of his actions and almost complete lack of attention to due diligence in lieu of greed. Although at different scales in monetary terms, the parallels are quite disturbing.

[LabSpokane]

"We were just loading the last pallet of Batterisers on the truck ready for shipping when this awful letter arrived. Unfortunately we can't ship the Batterisers as-is, and there's no money left to make another batch.

We're completely gutted at not being able to ship you your Batterisers but there's nothing we can do. We've been fighting off Big Battery since day one but they finally caught up with us.

Sorry, Bob R."

If they've been "fighting off big battery since day one"... why did they continue to make such ludacris claims all this time? I think we all see through Roohparvar's lies by now. There probably wasn't any pallet of Batterisers either.

Did they stop part-way through loading the truck when they decided to open their mail? I think not.

That quote was a facetious invention of Fungus. It's not real.

[Halcyon]

That quote was a facetious invention of Fungus. It's not real.

Ahh... it sounded very Batteriser-like though! I've amended my post.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi group,

Remember back around reply #1953 a San Jose State University professor (Physics and Astronomy) called Kiumars Parvin was talking up the Batteriser.

Well it turns out the attorney representing Batteroo in the trademark dispute with Energizer happens to be Pardees Parvin.

A coincidence, may be, but www.Whitepages.com has a Kiumars Parvin and a Pardees Parvin at the same address.

I suspect that they might just be related.....

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[Fungus]

"We were just loading the last pallet of Batterisers on the truck ready for shipping when this awful letter arrived. Unfortunately we can't ship the Batterisers as-is, and there's no money left to make another batch.

We're completely gutted at not being able to ship you your Batterisers but there's nothing we can do. We've been fighting off Big Battery since day one but they finally caught up with us.

Sorry, Bob R."

If they've been "fighting off big battery since day one"... why did they continue to make such ludacris claims all this time? I think we all see through Roohparvar's lies by now. There probably wasn't any pallet of Batterisers either.

Did they stop part-way through loading the truck when they decided to open their mail? I think not.

That quote was a facetious invention of Fungus. It's not real.

 

[Kalvin]

Hi group,

Remember back around reply #1953 a San Jose State University professor (Physics and Astronomy) called Kiumars Parvin was talking up the Batteriser.

Well it turns out the attorney representing Batteroo in the trademark dispute with Energizer happens to be Pardees Parvin.

A coincidence, may be, but www.Whitepages.com has a Kiumars Parvin and a Pardees Parvin at the same address.

I suspect that they might just be related.....

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

Their defense doesn't look too good:

Pardees Parvin - #291291

http://members.calbar.ca.gov/fal/Member/Detail/291291

Current Status:  Active
This member is active and may practice law in California.

9/8/2015 Active
7/1/2015 Suspended, failed to pay Bar membr. fees: Not Eligible To Practice Law
10/25/2013 Admitted to The State Bar of California

 

[Brumby]

Their defense doesn't look too good

Well, it's not as if they aim to win, is it?  Best outcome is for a deal to be made.

But who's betting any details of such a deal will be "confidential" - even if it's just a name change.  Then they can spin any yarn they like.

[jippie]

[...]
Remember back around reply #1953 a San Jose State University professor (Physics and Astronomy) called Kiumars Parvin was talking up the Batteriser.
[...]

I think this is the first occurrence of the name in this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-751-how-to-debunk-a-product-%28the-batteriser%29/msg750496/#msg750496

[McBryce]

Their defense doesn't look too good:

Pardees Parvin - #291291

http://members.calbar.ca.gov/fal/Member/Detail/291291

Current Status:  Active
This member is active and may practice law in California.

9/8/2015 Active
7/1/2015 Suspended, failed to pay Bar membr. fees: Not Eligible To Practice Law
10/25/2013 Admitted to The State Bar of California

Then there best option would be...

McBryce.

[JoeO]

[...]
Remember back around reply #1953 a San Jose State University professor (Physics and Astronomy) called Kiumars Parvin was talking up the Batteriser.
[...]

I think this is the first occurrence of the name in this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-751-how-to-debunk-a-product-%28the-batteriser%29/msg750496/#msg750496

WOW.  Did you notice the word play!
"'We tested the Batteriser sleeve in our lab and we confirmed that the Batteriser taps into the 80 percent of energy that is usually thrown away.' Dr Kiumars Parvin"
Taps into the "80%" but it doesn't say how much of the "80%" it uses.

[Brumby]

10 out of 10 for that part of the word play ... but somewhat of a fail on the latter part: "taps into the 80 percent of energy that is usually thrown away"

If I remember correctly, Dave's voltage tests on various bits of gear put the dropout level at around the 1.0V level - and when you look under the discharge curve (he scribbled on), the energy discarded is more like 8% than 80%.

[McBryce]

10 out of 10 for that part of the word play ... but somewhat of a fail on the latter part: "taps into the 80 percent of energy that is usually thrown away"

If I remember correctly, Dave's voltage tests on various bits of gear put the dropout level at around the 1.0V level - and when you look under the discharge curve (he scribbled on), the energy discarded is more like 8% than 80%.

The "usually gets thrown away" part is valid, because many people throw away batteries that haven't been full used. Not because the device didn't work any more, but because the device is no longer used or whatever. So he wormed his way around that one too.

McBryce.