EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

I had a 2.2uH inductor in the one that I built. I used the LTC3539 It has a 2A switch.

Here is the schematic:



Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[RobertoLG]

oh my, at least you get some god laughs out this stuff, red labial 

[Wytnucls]

What max output current (at 1.5V) did you get with a 1MHz switching frequency from a AA battery?
Was the inductor rated for 2A, while still fitting in the space available?
What was the efficiency of the conversion like at that output?

[EEVblog]

The pin number match the LTC3526L:

That's quite the coincidence. Even the thermal pad ground pin matches.

[EEVblog]

Schematic
The patent application includes this schematic:

  The schematic is wrong! 
/EN is connected to Vin. If it's truly NOT EN then I don't think it's going to work too well...

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Schematic
The patent application includes this schematic:

  The schematic is wrong! 
/EN is connected to Vin. If it's truly NOT EN then I don't think it's going to work too well...

There is another mistake the values of R1 and R2 are transposed if this is the LTC3526.

As shown the output voltage is

Vout = 1.195 (1 + R1/R2) = 1.195 (1+ 499/180) = 4.50V

If they are the other way:

Vout = 1.195 (1+180/499) = 1.626V

The minimum output voltage for the LTC3526 is 1.6V, another confirmation that this is probably the LTC3526.

Jay_Diddy_B

[Wytnucls]

Reading through the datasheet, it seems that EN can be pulled high with Vin if it is kept above 0.8V. Will be pulled low below 0.3V

[ChunkyPastaSauce]

When SHDN is high, then it is in operation mode, when low it is in shutdown.  However, vin can go as low as 0.5V,  SHDN is indeterminate below 0.8V and above 0.3V .....

[EEVblog]

There is another mistake the values of R1 and R2 are transposed if this is the LTC3526.

If the patent values are right, then the internal reference voltage would have to be 0.54V to get a 1.5V output using the displayed values. Not going to happen.

[f4eru]

What is more entertaining than Vaporware ? Unrealistic Vaporware 

[EEVblog]

Reading through the datasheet, it seems that EN can be pulled high with Vin if it is kept above 0.8V. Will be pulled low below 0.3V

The point is their patent shows NOT EN (active low), but it's tied high. It can't work as shown.

[Wytnucls]

'The LTC3526/LTC3526B can utilize small surface mount chip inductors due to their fast 1MHz switching frequency. Inductor values between 3.3µH and 6.8µH are suitable for most applications.'

The value of 2.2uH for the switching inductor in their diagram is low and will reduce output current quite a bit, if they are using this converter (<100mA).

[TheAmmoniacal]

If the Batteriser do ship with an unknown IC (rebranded/scratched off), would we be able to tell which manufacturer it's from? Do they all engrave their logo/name on the die?

[The Electrician]

The LTC3400 can be ruled out.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

Jay_Diddy_B, can you do a constant power discharge of a fresh AA cell, plotting the discharge curve?

[Wytnucls]

I was looking for a converter (LTC3400) with a part reference similar to theirs (P346). Can we assume that the part reference Batteroo quoted was pulled out of a hat?

[LabSpokane]

They seem to be using a variant of the Linear Technology LTC3400 (P346 on their schematics), not a proprietary converter as they claim:

http://html.alldatasheet.com/html-pdf/70868/LINER/LTC3400/126/1/LTC3400.html

I'm seeing only 600mA of output on that one. Hmmm.....

The 600mA is the switch current rating not the output rating. With a boost converter the switch has to be rated higher than the output current.

  Oh geez...of course!  I should know that. Thanks for being a good professor JDB!

[EEVblog]

The point must be, is this such a new idea and solution that they will be granted a patent on it? What is new? 

The only possible thing is the physical implementation of the sleeve. Anything else is so prior art and "obvious to the trade" it's a joke.

[EEVblog]

If the Batteriser do ship with an unknown IC (rebranded/scratched off), would we be able to tell which manufacturer it's from? Do they all engrave their logo/name on the die?

You can bet your bottom dollar that someone will de-encapsulate it and put it under a microscope.

[Fungus]

Reading through the datasheet, it seems that EN can be pulled high with Vin if it is kept above 0.8V. Will be pulled low below 0.3V

The point is their patent shows NOT EN (active low), but it's tied high. It can't work as shown.

Maybe it's like one of Leonardo Da Vinci's plans, they all had a subtle mistake in them so the device wouldn't work if you copied the design as-is.

[jippie]

Mmmm I'll have a Johnnie Worker neat!

Red Labial? 


PS: Laphroig...

Almost... Ardbeg 17

m

Will I meet any of you electronic whisky nerds on Islay this May? Curious about the 200yrs Lagavulin festival bottle.

[Brumby]

The point must be, is this such a new idea and solution that they will be granted a patent on it? What is new? 

The only possible thing is the physical implementation of the sleeve. Anything else is so prior art and "obvious to the trade" it's a joke.

In reading through the posts of the last 24 hours, this exact thought kept nagging at me.  The electrical concept is ancient (in electronics terms) and only the physical implementation is 'new'.

Unless they really have developed a new chip that does something special, this horse is on its knees and ready for a faceplant.

[AlxDroidDev]

Unless they really have developed a new chip that does something special, this horse is on its knees and ready for a faceplant.

In that case, shouldn't there be a patent request specific to the chip itself?

[Fungus]

Will I meet any of you electronic whisky nerds on Islay this May? Curious about the 200yrs Lagavulin festival bottle.

Not this year...

(I've done that tour though, have fun!)

[Wytnucls]

These chips take months to develop and cost a small fortune. Batteroo is using off the shelf components, except for their sleeve, which is the source of all their reliability problems.
As for their 9V battery clip, the whole contraption is so tall that it will seldom fit in existing compartments. Fail.

[Brumby]

Unless they really have developed a new chip that does something special, this horse is on its knees and ready for a faceplant.

In that case, shouldn't there be a patent request specific to the chip itself?

I would certainly expect one.  It's the only way they could save face, because, from the current evidence available, their present path seems to be going nowhere.

The lack of any such patent application suggests they don't have a practical solution.