new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004

[Martin72]

"Another new killer scope in town"....
Problem solved.
BTW, with an entry-price of appx 9000€ (incl.VAT), the scope is more a "niche product" for hobbyists.
Another true game changer would be a new model in the RTB2000 class.

[tautech]

"Another new killer scope in town"....

Last one had it's lunch eaten by SDS2104X Plus. 

SDS2104X HD might eat another.......

[Martin72]

No doubts about it in both cases, read my comment on the batronix site concerning the HD...
But it´s the R&S thread here.

[nctnico]

"Another new killer scope in town"....

Last one had it's lunch eaten by SDS2104X

Keep on dreaming... The user interface of the RTB2004 (and related models) alone is several levels better.

[goaty]

I read the review on Batronix of the HD, and it doesn't seem to be too useful or saying anything about real world measurement scenarios.
Also what wonders me is the big black bezel they put around the screen. Such a waste. Why not put a bigger screen ? Maby 11" or so wouldn't fit.

[2N3055]

"Another new killer scope in town"....

Last one had it's lunch eaten by SDS2104X

Keep on dreaming... The user interface of the RTB2004 (and related models) alone is several levels better.

What does that even mean? RT2000 UI is nice, but it is also about personal preferences.
And even if that was true, it didn't help with sales until price was dropped to more realistic levels...

One fun nugget said here was that RTB2000 is "quite old platform". It has been  5 years now that it was released if I remember correctly. It took almost 2 years to stabilize featureset and debug. So in my mind this scope is reliable product for cca 3 years.  Is this a "sign of times" of a short lived products like smartphones?  I hope product lifecycles won't become as short as with consumer devices..

[nctnico]

"Another new killer scope in town"....

Last one had it's lunch eaten by SDS2104X

Keep on dreaming... The user interface of the RTB2004 (and related models) alone is several levels better.

What does that even mean? RT2000 UI is nice, but it is also about personal preferences.

Not just personal preference. It is about the configurability and feature set of the UI which makes the oscilloscope more efficient and effective to use. Like having hotkeys for functions you use commonly. Or things like on-screen annotations that can help documenting parts of a signal without needing to write oodles of text for a description and/or do image editing seperately. And let's not forget sizable windows. Overall the UI of the RTB2004 has been well designed and implemented. And that is just the UI aspect...

One fun nugget said here was that RTB2000 is "quite old platform". It has been  5 years now that it was released if I remember correctly. It took almost 2 years to stabilize featureset and debug. So in my mind this scope is reliable product for cca 3 years.  Is this a "sign of times" of a short lived products like smartphones?  I hope product lifecycles won't become as short as with consumer devices..

Let's see what happens first. I can imagine though that R&S would like to update the RTB2004 to use the same logic probes. IMHO the current ribbon cable ones are a remnant of the Hameg days. Personally I'm not a fan of ribbon cables anyway; they are quite fragile.

[Neurosurg]

Gentlemen, wouldn´t it be good to start a new thread instead using the RTB2000 thread for a different scope...

Hit the jakcpoot

Martin72

)

[pdenisowski]

Gentlemen, wouldn´t it be good to start a new thread instead using the RTB2000 thread for a different scope...

There's already an MXO4 thread (started on launch day, no less) 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-picture-on-eevblog-of-the-new-rs-mxo4-series-oscilloscope-)/

[pdenisowski]

Let's see what happens first. I can imagine though that R&S would like to update the RTB2004 to use the same logic probes. IMHO the current ribbon cable ones are a remnant of the Hameg days. Personally I'm not a fan of ribbon cables anyway; they are quite fragile.

I can't speak for the product line, but the only two scopes that use the ribbon cable connectors are the RTC and RTB -- all of our newer scopes use the HDMI-style probes.

[Neurosurg]

Let's see what happens first. I can imagine though that R&S would like to update the RTB2004 to use the same logic probes. IMHO the current ribbon cable ones are a remnant of the Hameg days. Personally I'm not a fan of ribbon cables anyway; they are quite fragile.

I can't speak for the product line, but the only two scopes that use the ribbon cable connectors are the RTC and RTB -- all of our newer scopes use the HDMI-style probes.

Is it change something? I think that probes on RTB2000 send signals also withut problems
I compare with driend with RTM.

[pdenisowski]

Is it change something? I think that probes on RTB2000 send signals also without problems
I compare with friend with RTM.

I've used the ribbon style cables extensively with my RTB and personally I've never had any issues with them.  They're definitely a lot more robust than the cables that came with some of the PC/USB-based logic analyzers I have    

I can check with the developers, but I think one advantage of the newer style is the scope-side connectors are physically smaller and take up less space on the front of the instrument.  If you look at both styles (RT-ZL03 and RTZL04 - attached again) next to an MXO4, you'll see it would be tough to have two of the older-style connectors on the front panel.

[nctnico]

Well, having to pull on the cables themselves is a big no where it comes to ribbon cables. Even inside more expensive PCs (where ribbon cables are not disconnected very often) you'll find the ribbon cable connectors are fitted with pulling tabs / cords so you pull the connector instead of the cable.

[coppice]

This thread has gone on and on since 2017. Shouldn't the title change to "Re: scope nearing EOL from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004"

[Martin72]

EOL after only 5yrs...?

[pdenisowski]

This thread has gone on and on since 2017. Shouldn't the title change to "Re: scope nearing EOL from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004"

Absolutely not.  I can assure you that the RTB is nowhere near EOL

[Neurosurg]

Is it change something? I think that probes on RTB2000 send signals also without problems
I compare with friend with RTM.

I've used the ribbon style cables extensively with my RTB and personally I've never had any issues with them.  They're definitely a lot more robust than the cables that came with some of the PC/USB-based logic analyzers I have    

I can check with the developers, but I think one advantage of the newer style is the scope-side connectors are physically smaller and take up less space on the front of the instrument.  If you look at both styles (RT-ZL03 and RTZL04 - attached again) next to an MXO4, you'll see it would be tough to have two of the older-style connectors on the front panel.

On front is very good, but like in the RTM3000 on the side is less comfortable i think, and front panel of RTM looks with a lot of pins aaround the gen bnc connector makes a mess, if there be hdmi logic connectors all looks professjonal and estetic like in the RTB2000. In my MDO3000 they have their standard with one small connector on the front for one logic probe for 16ch, but I prefered yours, scopes you made are the pice of art, in loved your scopes, are made with giving form enginerr 100% and even mmore, and it is visible

[Neurosurg]

This thread has gone on and on since 2017. Shouldn't the title change to "Re: scope nearing EOL from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004"

Absolutely not.  I can assure you that the RTB is nowhere near EOL

Can You tell me with place is occupated by MXO4 is it better then RTO2000?, better then RTP084, or better than RTO6?
I noticed that the buttons in RTO2000 and RTP084 are mayby for me better done than in MXO4 and RTO6.
Today scopes slowly looks like new PC monitor, MXO4 is great scope , but I prefer RTO2000 hope R&S will always the scopes with old style and tradition in their offer.
I take RTO2014 from Physics Institute where I work as apparatus electronics and science worker. Looks like MXO4 has a little bit bigger screen.
It is hard to compare by photos. I will check it later.


Regreds,
Michael.

[RBBVNL9]

Hello,

I have a strange thing on my RTB2004; wondering whether others also have this or whether I am just mistaken. I don’t think I came across this anywhere on the forum (but there is a lot here).

So, the thing is: when I turn the logic signals on (or select one of them for triggering), then the noise I see on the analog channels goes up considerably (orders of magnitude). Both visually and in terms of measurement. And it also happens when I use low-sensitivity settings.

I made some screenshots that illustrate the issue. The analog channel is always connected with a 50 Ohm terminator plug (so no input signal).

Screenshot SRC31: with the most sensitive (1mV/DIV) channel setting, without digital channels activated.

Screenshot SRC32: everything identical but with some digital channels activated.

Screenshot SRC33: Now with a less sensitive setting (1V/DIV), without digital channels activated.

Screenshot SRC34: And once more, everything identical but with some digital channels activated.

Anyone?

[tautech]

Sanity check is always the Default button.

[2N3055]

So, the thing is: when I turn the logic signals on (or select one of them for triggering), then the noise I see on the analog channels goes up considerably (orders of magnitude). Both visually and in terms of measurement. And it also happens when I use low-sensitivity settings.

Probably the difference of Sample and HiRes mode. HiRes is not active with digital channels.

I agree.

[RBBVNL9]

@PeDre & 2N3055,

Yes, you are right! I already had the feeling I was overlooking something. Taking another look at the screenshots, I indeed see that when the digital channel is turned on, the scope greys out the "High Res." indication on the top line. (It did not jump back, however, to sample mode, which explains that when I again disabled the digital channel, the scope went back to HighRes.)

Thanks for the swift replies!

@Tautech: Yes, should have returned the device to its default settings (called 'Preset' on this device). Just returned from a double intercontinental trip, must have been tired. Next time ;-)

[Neurosurg]

I'll post it here, maybe it'll be of interest to someone. I was experimenting with the bandwidth of RTB2004-COM4.
My oscilloscope had a bandwidth of 300MHz at the time of purchase.
On the Ch1 channel I gave a sine wave RF signal from the prototype board, the heart of which is contained in this board brandname, namely ADF4351-PLL. It is a phase-locked loop module with integrated key operation, wide range voltage supply, and good human-computer interaction interface made on ARM STM32. The module can realize the frequency output of 35MHz-4.4GHz, basic functions such as point frequency, frequency sweep, frequency hopping. I found that the most common maximum bandwidth of the RTB2002/RTB2004 is one hundred megahertz. So on ch1 I applied RF signal with f=100MHz. Look at the spectrum of it.
]
Kind regards ,

Michael

[nctnico]

That looks perfectly fine for an ADF4351 output; I strongly recall seeing a similar spectrum from my own board. The ADF4351 outputs a square wave which also has a significant amount of even harmonics. Besides that, you will want to use 50 Ohm termination at the oscilloscope's side to -somewhat- properly terminate the signal coming from the ADF4351. It would be interesting to see how flat the response is for spectrum analysis. I'm surprised the RTB2004 allows to set the FFT frequency beyond 300MHz.

[Neurosurg]

nctnico, could You tell mw, is it wotrh to sell RTB2004-COM4 300MHz, almost new 3msc I have it and It is fantastic scope, beside of that I have Tek MDO3054 - full option - 3GHz bandwidth real hardware spectrum anylaser. Back to the question, is it worth to sell this two scopes and buy RTM3004-COM4 500MHz ?
I  mentionded that Tek in fact complement the RTB2004-COM4 300MHz giving Power Anyylasis app. 500MHz bw. limit and an important thing REAL HARDWARE very good spectrum  anylaser having a bandwidth up to 3GHz, far away from even 1GHz model of RTM, second guestion, what do you thing about RTM spectrum anyl, ?

Thanks for any advice.

Regereds,

Michael.