EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[AmmoJammo]

If they're a 3Rd of the way through shipping, even if only half of them are in the USA, they'd all have them by now, that's 1000 people in the USA with batteriser in their hands...

[Fungus]

So Batteroo does no take advantage of the Chinese state sponsered shipping, ships from the US at high costs and ships to IGG backers while not having all the addresses. This is exactly what I would do to ruin a business.

Judging by the comments they announced shipping 28+ days ago.

28 days have passed and nobody in the USA has confirmed receipt or posted any photos? 

[Fungus]

But our friend was there, supporting Bob in his time of need when everybody else was doubting:



Maybe that's why he got the first box...

[Fungus]

The Batteriser saga is better than any movie I've seen in the last few years. 

It's got comedy, drama, suspense, natural disasters...

All that's missing is pirates, and I haven't given up on those yet.

If it was a book it would be a real "page turner".

(let's hope it doesn't have a cliffhanger ending)

[ez24]

But our friend was there, supporting Bob in his time of need when everybody else was doubting:
Maybe that's why he got the first box...

This makes sense. 

[EEVblog]

If they're a 3Rd of the way through shipping, even if only half of them are in the USA, they'd all have them by now, that's 1000 people in the USA with batteriser in their hands...

Yep, doesn't make sense. I think someone at Batteroo was spinning Wayne a yarn.

[EEVblog]

Question: If the above statement is true (ie. they're being shipped from the USA)

That part is confirmed true, we have the photo of Wayne's box with the US customs from and USPS sticker. It was shipped from over the counter at a US post office.

then why didn't people in the USA receive them before Greece/Australia.

Clearly that part is BS, and they are only shipping to select people because *insert reason here*

[ez24]

We need Wayne's help.  Let's be helpful to him.

Some talk like he is an engineer.  His business is selling rebuilt car batteries.  I used to buy them and it is not like walking into Qualcomm.  They were very nasty places with vats of hot acid and other nasty things.  So I am a little impressed what he did, even if a failure.

How does it work to be a distributor?  Does he pay a large sum up front or make a large purchase?  He needs to be careful, but I think any used car battery person that can go to another country for a concert, probably knows what he is doing.

If I were him I would send them to Dave, otherwise he may lose a lot of money if he tries to sell a defective product.

Has anyone thought of starting a new topic with this in the title "Is there anyone from Darwin here?".  I imagine not everyone is reading this topic.  Maybe someone from Darwin would help.

[Muttley Snickers]

It would be nice to see a properly controlled environment and in particular a decent lux meter in use if random flashlights were to become the backyard standard reference or for these test comparisons otherwise dim, dimmer or dimmer than I recall might be interpreted as a bit vague in my view.

Also a Brymen BM235 would have been a nice addition to Wayne's submitted tests and images, could you imagine the look on Bob's face with every tested and uploaded Batteriser image showing the EEVblog logo in the background, the thought of this alone almost has me rolling on the floor in fits of laughter, I'd probably do a rib or something.

     

[Cerebus]

LabSpokane and Blocco, I respectfully disagree with you.

Wayne chose to put himself in this position, so he is not a helpless victim of anything, he's not a puppet being manipulated by Bob Roofatopabar either. He's an adult, a grown man and he has made choices. Whatever they are, he's responsible for them, and must face their consequences, for better or for worse.

How he's been playing, for the past 2-3 days, with the cards that have been dealt to him is his choice. He is the one that is not willing to part with a single unit to any competent member of EEVBlog in Australia that can do proper tests. I know for a fact that many of the EEVBlog members from Australia are competent and well equipped to do so, and if I were Wayne, I would be proud to have one of you help me with adequate test procedures.

He has used harsh words towards us and has been disrespectful in general with our community. That has also been his choice: choice of words and choice of actions. lease let's not consider him an infant who's acting up, or a kid who is helpless. He is neither. He is just a grown man that has chosen sides while disregarding all the technical aspects involved and the law of physics!

He bought a product from someone. That doesn't give him any obligations to you or anybody else here. He didn't approach anybody here, he was approached. Again, that doesn't give him any obligations to you or anybody else here. So he chose some harsh words, well that is about all he has any obligations over and frankly that is hardly anything anybody with an ego more robust than Donald Trump's is going to get upset about. To imply that we have any kind of right to demand a product from him and that he ought to be "willing to part with" it borders on the ridiculous.

[Blocco]

And, I'll ask again for everyone to lay off Wayne.  Wayne is a victim, not a bad actor.  He depended on Bros. Roohparvar to correctly represent their product and what's actually been sent to him, which clearly is not a production unit.

We need Wayne's help.  Let's be helpful to him.

Don't be too hard on Wayne, he didn't ask to be put under the spotlight and would, no doubt, prefer not to be drawn into the Batteroo circus. The fact that he has been is entirely Bob's fault for not publishing specifications and test data for the "game changing" product that he made such extravagant claims for. And we can't really criticise him for not releasing his Batteroos for testing when he is hoping to become a distributor and obviously doesn't want to do anything that might jeopardise this possibility.

LabSpokane and Blocco, I respectfully disagree with you.

Wayne chose to put himself in this position, so he is not a helpless victim of anything, he's not a puppet being manipulated by Bob Roofatopabar either. He's an adult, a grown man and he has made choices. Whatever they are, he's responsible for them, and must face their consequences, for better or for worse.

How he's been playing, for the past 2-3 days, with the cards that have been dealt to him is his choice. He is the one that is not willing to part with a single unit to any competent member of EEVBlog in Australia that can do proper tests. I know for a fact that many of the EEVBlog members from Australia are competent and well equipped to do so, and if I were Wayne, I would be proud to have one of you help me with adequate test procedures.

He has used harsh words towards us and has been disrespectful in general with our community. That has also been his choice: choice of words and choice of actions. lease let's not consider him an infant who's acting up, or a kid who is helpless. He is neither. He is just a grown man that has chosen sides while disregarding all the technical aspects involved and the law of physics!

All he did was buy some Batteroos from dodgy Bob Rhubarb, you make him sound like a criminal. He isn't obliged to co-operate with or show respect to anyone on this forum or anywhere else; why do you suggest that he is? 

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him supplying a Batteroo to Dave for testing, but it is entirely his choice and far more likely to happen if forum members show some restraint and hold back with the criticism. Let's get some perspective here, we're only talking about an over-hyped bit of electronic tat that was heading for obsolescence before it was even conceived.

[EEVblog]

The sleeves from units sent to Revive:


The sleeves from UL testing in 2015


The sleeves from units that were finalized, as posted on igg


The sleeves from units in production, as posted on igg


Note this is just on the sleeves, the PCB on Revives unit  does not match UL unit and (imo) the production photo

Nicely spotted! 

[EEVblog]

Right here something is very very wrong.
There is absolutely no way that the battery with the Batteriser after 2 hours can be 1.47V whilst the control battery is 1.18V (both open circuit voltages, but that's beside the point)
The Batteriser battery must be drawing more power than the reference battery (the load + the efficiency loss), so it should be roughly the same voltage or lower than the reference, not massively greater and close to fresh voltage we see here. This is guaranteed by basic laws of battery chemistry.  Something was not done right, like the Batteriser battery was left to recover it's terminal voltage longer or something.

[twice11]

Right here something is very very wrong.
There is absolutely no way that the battery with the Batteriser after 2 hours can be 1.47V whilst the control battery is 1.18V (both open circuit voltages, but that's beside the point)

I am quite confident that the voltage of the batteroo'ed battery is measured at the output of the batteroo sleve. So it's expected to be around 1.5V.

Edit: Change batterizer to batteroo.

[drussell]

Right here something is very very wrong.
There is absolutely no way that the battery with the Batteriser after 2 hours can be 1.47V whilst the control battery is 1.18V (both open circuit voltages, but that's beside the point)

Yes...  Of course there is something wrong! 

He is measuring the output voltage of the sleeve, not the battery terminal voltage.

Unfortunately he doesn't understand the basics about what he should be trying to test.

[LabSpokane]

<snipped>
Let's get some perspective here, we're only talking about an over-hyped bit of electronic tat that was heading for obsolescence before it was even conceived.

Good point. Well made.

And for some additional perspective, Wayne actually went to the trouble and expense of visiting Batteroo HQ and talking to Bob.  None of us here have done that.  I'm 2 hours away by air.  Wayne is on the opposite side of the planet.  Wayne has made an effort that none of the rest of us have, so give the guy credit for getting out from behind his computer venturing into the world.

[firewalker]

Couldn't the 4 or 5 humps of the batterro be the difference between the model for AA and AAA?

Alexander.

[johndoe123]

Wouldn't it be good enough for a first simple test w/o any expensive lab equipment to simply attach a power resistor (e.g 4.7 Ohm, 1 Watt or so) in series with a current meter and write down the current every 10 minutes?

[AmmoJammo]

Couldn't the 4 or 5 humps of the batterro be the difference between the model for AA and AAA?

Alexander.

Noone has ever seen the aaa version :p

[sleemanj]

Would our Darwinian friend be amenable to being sent a test device?

It wouldn't take more than an hour or two to knock together a couple of AA holders, a couple of power resistors, and an arduino to log all the data to an sd card or something, a shim on a wire should be able to fit between the cell positive terminal and the batteroo sleeve to get that reading.  Don't have to be fancy.




(It would be probably better to be able to put in a constant current/power loads to better simulate real world application, but this is quick and dirty.)

[IanB]

There is absolutely no way that the battery with the Batteriser after 2 hours can be 1.47V whilst the control battery is 1.18V (both open circuit voltages, but that's beside the point)

That has to be the voltage with the Batteroo sleeve, measured on the outside of the sleeve...

[onlooker]

Apparently, revive's voltages were open circuit voltages and, for the sleeve-on test, they were measured at the sleeve output.

At 2 hours and 7 minutes, the sleeve open circuit output was 1.32V. This means the bettery under the sleeve was practically dead since the sleeve could no longer regulate properly under open circuit condition.

Right before this measurement point, one would expect the flashlight showed sudden dim to no light, though revive did not mention it.

[AmmoJammo]

I suspect the torch with the Batteriser turned off, and that's the reason he swapped the sleeve to the other cell
As mentioned, 0.9 volts on an unloaded cell is dead flat. With a load, no boost regulator is going to work with that input voltage.

But remember, batteriser told him it might not work with led torches, hence him looking for another test.

[ez24]

But remember, batteriser told him it might not work with led torches, hence him looking for another test.

The search is on to find something that does work with the batteriser.  Monkeys?

[AmmoJammo]

Can anyone follow this?