EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[Smokey]

Next update is the factory was in that complex that was damaged by a land slippage.

Don't give them idea like that!

Wow.. you guys called it right on! 

[EEVblog]

The landslide bit was funny, good call SeanB!

Now they are just saying another couple of weeks, so it seems they are actually going to ship these things?
If they wanted to delay big-time then they could have with the fab problem. But nope, it's all tested and ready to go.
They game is up once they ship!

[EEVblog]

Next update is the factory was in that complex that was damaged by a land slippage.

Don't give them idea like that!

Wow.. you guys called it right on!

There has been a remarkable parallel with things/ideas said on this forum which then Batteriser have used days or weeks later. Maybe 4-5 things now?

[SeanB]

BS detector just went off scale positive. Either it just blew or the depth is in the kilometre range.

[Bud]

Chinese holidays is next, I threw that idea some days ago. Watch it happening.

[Kalvin]

Just in case, should they run out of ideas:
- "My dog ate the schematics"
- "My cat peed on the computer containing backers' contact information"
- "The shipping container fell into ocean"
- "The shipping container is robbed/lost"

[Bud]

- "My dog ate the schematics"

This indeed can happen, I saw with my own eyes my friend's dog ate his Dissertation. Well, a good chunk of it. 

[LabSpokane]

Next update is the factory was in that complex that was damaged by a land slippage.

Don't give them idea like that!

Wow.. you guys called it right on!

There has been a remarkable parallel with things/ideas said on this forum which then Batteriser have used days or weeks later. Maybe 4-5 things now?

The short circuit issue begat the coating.

The uselessness of the device for low current draw devices like remotes has got us 500 to 1500 mA spec change and the "Fab Delay."

Pointing out the the RF interference issue got us the ridiculously-gamed FCC class B test.

Pointing out that 0.8V was the industry standard for "dead" forced Batteroo to give up on the energy extraction down to 0.5V nonsense.

Testing devices' actual dropout voltages got the admission that 0.9-1.1V was actually where devices cutoff at, not the 1.35V got more claims changes.

So yes, it's fair to think Bob and Frankie keep tabs on this thread. 

[SeanB]

Container loss is also very common, there are quite a few sitting on the ocean floor or bobbing along just on the surface.

[SL4P]

This sounds like a great opportunity to collate a 'real' list of the remaining excuses Batteroo can roll out before they're exposed to their backers... and fall into a deep hole.

To start the ball rolling, we had the mudslide...
Chinese New Year is a strong contender for 7-10 days minimum delay.

A global shortage of 'something' - other than integrity could add to the list.

[Kalvin]

"The funds were in bitcoins and the bitcoins are now robbed."
"My dog ate the paper slip containing the bitcoin password."

[Urs42]

"My pony-tail hit the on/off switch on the power strip."
"Evil dogs hypnotised the night shift"

They can find more excuses on http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ballard/bofh/bofhserver.pl

[Brumby]

"The container ship was diverted to another port due to mechanical problems."

"The shipment got held up by Customs."

"They delivered the wrongs containers to us.  Instead of Batterisers, we received 600 pieces of hand carved furniture and 2000 cane baskets."

"A water main burst and flooded the warehouse."

"A sink hole opened up under the loading dock and we've been locked out of our building for our own safety."

[Fungus]

That's not what an "update" is, Bob.

[samgab]

Next update is the factory was in that complex that was damaged by a land slippage.

Don't give them idea like that!

Wow.. you guys called it right on!

There has been a remarkable parallel with things/ideas said on this forum which then Batteriser have used days or weeks later. Maybe 4-5 things now?

The short circuit issue begat the coating.

The uselessness of the device for low current draw devices like remotes has got us 500 to 1500 mA spec change and the "Fab Delay."

Pointing out the the RF interference issue got us the ridiculously-gamed FCC class B test.

Pointing out that 0.8V was the industry standard for "dead" forced Batteroo to give up on the energy extraction down to 0.5V nonsense.

Testing devices' actual dropout voltages got the admission that 0.9-1.1V was actually where devices cutoff at, not the 1.35V got more claims changes.

So yes, it's fair to think Bob and Frankie keep tabs on this thread. 

When someone made a humourous comment on this forum about the spelling of "Engineeer" in Bob's title on their website my change tracker showed that the spelling was corrected within a day. They definitely monitor this thread.

Oh, did anyone else notice the sneaky little change to "1300mA" current handling now, rather than the previous figure drawn from someone's hat of 1.5A?

And interesting their wording to supporters: "...As you may recall, we initially planned to ship the 500mA beta version of the Batteriser..."
That is disingenuous, to say the least.
They were promoting it from the word go as a device that would handle whatever current the battery would put out, they never initially put a 500mA figure on that; not when the backers were handing over their cash at any rate.

[Fungus]

Now they are just saying another couple of weeks

They said the same thing two weeks ago.

And two weeks before that...

so it seems they are actually going to ship these things?

Shall we start a pool to guess the shipping date?   

I'm predicting a long string of incredible bad luck.

A landslide is good for at least two more delays while they sift through the rubble to find the lost blueprints, rebuild the factory, etc.

That takes them to Chinese new year. It's a well known fact that nobody in China works for a whole month during new year.

After that they can lose the shipping container at sea...send another one, have it stolen by some "Somalian pirates" employed by Big Battery...

Then they can just close the whole thing down because they "ran out of money".

(But hey! It wasn't their fault, they tried their best!)

"Running out of money" is the only option that leaves them personally blameless so they can start over with another scam.

Shipping date? I say never.

[Brumby]

Shall we start a pool to guess the shipping date?   

Will any of us live long enough to claim the pool?

[AmmoJammo]

As much current as your device needs, 500ma, 1500ma, 1300ma, it's all the same thing really!

What happens if you exceed 1300ma though?

[Fungus]

As much current as your device needs, 500ma, 1500ma, 1300ma, it's all the same thing really!

What happens if you exceed 1300ma though?

You can't. The math was done a few pages back.

Edit: This post is easier to understand.

Observation

In order to get 1.5W from the cell, the cell must have greater than 70% of capacity left.

1300mA @ 1.5V is 1.95W,  ie. The battery will go into a death spiral almost as soon as you switch the device on.

The idea of Batteriser being useful at 1.95W is pure comedy. Delaying the product to achieve that figure is a farce.

(Or it would be, if they weren't stealing other people's money...)

[AmmoJammo]

As much current as your device needs, 500ma, 1500ma, 1300ma, it's all the same thing really!

What happens if you exceed 1300ma though?

You can't. The math was done a few pages back.

Observation

In order to get 1.5W from the cell, the cell must have greater than 70% of capacity left.

1300mA @ 1.5V is 1.95W,  ie. The battery will go into a death spiral almost as soon as you switch the device on.

The idea of Batteriser being useful at 1.95W is pure comedy. Delaying the product to achieve that figure is a farce.

(Or it would be, if they weren't stealing other people's money...)

But assuming you have brand new cells, what happens if your digital camera needs 2 amps to charge the flash capacitor?

Remember, they started claiming that the batteriser was to reduce voltage dips that occur when there's a current spike, from the load, on the battery...

Is exceeding the current limit going to result in the voltage dropping just as much, if not more than not having a butteriser on the cell at all? Especially seeing you have basically zero capacitance after the boost regulator...

[Fungus]

But assuming you have brand new cells, what happens if your digital camera needs 2 amps to charge the flash capacitor?

2 amps @ 1.5V is 3W - not going to happen.

Remember, they started claiming that the batteriser was to reduce voltage dips that occur when there's a current spike, from the load, on the battery...

 

Is exceeding the current limit going to result in the voltage dropping just as much, if not more than not having a butteriser on the cell at all?

Yes.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-751-how-to-debunk-a-product-%28the-batteriser%29/msg809012/#msg809012

[station240]

As much current as your device needs, 500ma, 1500ma, 1300ma, it's all the same thing really!

What happens if you exceed 1300ma though?

Micro black hole opens up, and swallows part of The Batteriser. Looks a lot like the usual magic smoke escaping, but totally not.

Actually I'm wondering how this device is going to cope with very low output currents, going from 10mA to 100uA makes the inductor 100 times the value. The component values I got for plugging some of Batteriser claims into a calculator for boost inverters are comical, would never fit into a AA battery space, much less the tiny area in and around one.

[bktemp]

Actually I'm wondering how this device is going to cope with very low output currents, going from 10mA to 100uA makes the inductor 100 times the value. The component values I got for plugging some of Batteriser claims into a calculator for boost inverters are comical, would never fit into a AA battery space, much less the tiny area in and around one.

Operating frequency in the MHz range + burst mode for low output currents.

[Fungus]

Actually I'm wondering how this device is going to cope with very low output currents, going from 10mA to 100uA makes the inductor 100 times the value.

Modern boosters vary their frequency based on load.

[PeterL]

With each passing day,  we are getting closer and closer to shipping your Batterisers.

and

Unfortunately, in the construction of the updated Batteriser IC, we encountered unexpected technical fabrication process related issues which caused us to miss our estimated November shipping date.

and

Unfortunately, due to a tragic heavy landslide in Shenzhen, China  this week,  we are now facing additional slight delays.

This reminds me of a story about a snail that has to climb out of a well...