Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815

[radiogeek97]

thanks
    i have more use for the commercial 450-512 and 7-800 pub saftey bands  I will look into the parts you have listed.  thank you for the reply

[ted572]

Hi Gents, this evening i just received the VB1020 kit and the full software key.

Firetank:

Congratulations on you new DSA815-TG.  I'm sure you will enjoy it very much.  Although I want to to caution you that Rigol has been having problems with their 'expensive' VB1020 VSWR Bridge for the last couple of years.  And as a result they have lowered the specifications a couple of time since it was initially released for production.  I included a plot of one I tested for a friend in 2013, but please note that they have since reduced the Return Loss Specification to 20dB typical and 15dB minimum.  So if you measure your new unit I expect that it could possibly be worse than my test results were.

I have included some links for Return Loss Bridges that are available.  You can also use a Mini-Circuits Directional Coupler (although what you get will be what you will have).  You may be happier using a Return Loss Loss Bridge (that can be adjusted and tweaked at least a little A/R), and there are several available at reasonable cost ($70 to $150 is reasonable).  And then you may want something even better(?).  All of the units I referenced I think are probably at least as good as the VB1020 (yes, I believe even the cheapest).  I would recommend returning your VB1020 for full refund, and by the way you have the VSWR Key, so that will remain on your DSA.  Tell them that the performance is way too low for your use of a RLB, and you will get your full refund.  The VB10220 is a nice clean package, but it doesn't work very well for its intended purpose.

What should a RLB have for a minimum Return Loss (with the UUT port terminated with an excellent 50 ohm termination)?  Ideally 30dB minimum for general hobbyist measurements, 35dB is preferred, and 45dB minimum for laboratory type measurements.  The amount of error, either to the worst, or 'incorrectly' to the better, can be very significant even with a Return Loss Spec. of 30dB.  You may want to to do a little research about RLB's to understand and appreciate this.

Not recommended, but very inexpensive:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/100M-1000MHz-RF-Reflection-Bridge-VSWR-SWR-Bridge-Antenna-Analyzer-Module/171589343360?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131227121020%26meid%3Da0eb29102f10459ba35638440de62a60%26pid%3D100009%26prg%3D20131227121020%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26

Again not recommended, but still inexpensive:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/3MHz-1200MHz-RF-Reflection-Bridge-Directional-VSWR-SWR-Bridge-Antenna-Analyzer-/171521995972?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ef81f4c4

Is 500MHz enough for you(?):  http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-500-MHZ-reflection-bridge-standing-wave-bridge-rf-bridge-/111510492079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f68b13af

This may be a good option:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-1000MHz-1GHz-reflection-VSWR-bridge-bridge-bridge-RF-SWR-bridge-/131329059012?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e93d268c4

This is probably a Best choice:  http://www.amtronix.com/rlb.htm  Note that it needs a reference '50 Ohm Termination', and one to check its Return Loss* capability (* you will need this with any RLB you buy, or make).

Edit by Ted572:  Added the following information.  1/10/2015: Added Mini-Circuits ZFDC-20-4 Return Loss Data.

Explore all of the available RLB options:  Search eBay, Google, etc yourself.  Do you want to buy or make yourself, and most important what capability suites your primary interest?
Recommended 50 Ohm Termination:   Mini Circuits (MCL) model KARN-50-18+, N male connector, 2 Watts, DC to 18GHz, $14 each (brand new).  http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/KARN-50-18+.pdf  This is an excellent 50 Ohm Termination.  You can spend up to ten times more money from other sources, but I don't think you will get any better quality than what this unit has.  If you are going to build your own RLB, then I suggest  getting at least two (2).  One for the reference termination, and one to use for checking (calibration) for your available Return Loss.  You can see a KARN-50-18+ on the back side of my RLB (50 Ohm REF).

[orbiter]

Hi all..

I just got a DSA815-TG and after reading the DS2000 thread until my eyes are red, I'd just like some confirmation please before going ahead with the options process, and if indeed it's still valid on the newer versions of the SA.

My DSA came with FW 1.09 installed, and as soon as It turned-up I installed FW 00.01.12. The Main board is version :00.08 and Boot is :00.01.04. FPGA :00.05

Would someone be kind enough to confirm please that using the private Key & Keygen to make the options permanent on the DSA815-TG is still the current method, and do I have to revert back to FW 1.09 before proceeding?

Many Thanks guys 

[nkw]

My DSA came with FW 1.09 installed, and as soon as It turned-up I installed FW 00.01.02. The Main board is version :00.08 and Boot is :00.01.04. FPGA :00.05

Would someone be kind enough to confirm please that using the private Key & Keygen to make the options permanent on the DSA815-TG is still the current method, and do I have to revert back to FW 1.09 before proceeding?

My DSA came with (and still has) the 1.09 firmware and 1.04 bootloader and none of the key generators have generated successful option codes. I intended to pop the cover and see if I could do any good with my new JTAG thing-a-ma-bob, but haven't done so yet. My understanding (though I have not tried it) is that if you still have demo time left you can enable the write protect on the FRAM and keep the demo time from counting down. I think Howardlong on the forum has posted info on that.

[ted572]

My DSA came with FW 1.09 installed, and as soon as It turned-up I installed FW 00.01.02. The Main board is version :00.08 and Boot is
My DSA came with (and still has) the 1.09 firmware and 1.04 bootloader and none of the key generators have generated successful option codes. I intended to pop the cover and see if I could do any good with my new JTAG thing-a-ma-bob, but haven't done so yet. My understanding (though I have not tried it) is that if you still have demo time left you can enable the write protect on the FRAM and keep the demo time from counting down. I think Howardlong on the forum has posted info on that.

'nkw':

Unfortunately there currently isn't a Riglol keygen that will work for your DSA's Firmware (.01.09/.01.04).  So for now you should quickly incorporate one of 'Howardlong's' FRAM modification methods to extend the trial periods (hopefully to never expire).  My guess is that you may simply be able to solder U1105 pins 7 and 8 together, as long s you don't need to change the network address, etc.  If this doesn't work you can piggyback his PIC on top of U1105 to do it fully.  You may want to discus this with him first before jumping inside your DSA.  As far as using a JTAG, this may be beyond your skill level.  But if not, go for it, as a keygen will be required to get the 10Hz RBW, which is not an available Trial.  And 10Hz RBW is very important for most of us to have.  The other options you should be able to retain and use as is thanks to 'Howardlong'.

[ted572]

Hi all..

I just got a DSA815-TG and after reading the DS2000 thread until my eyes are red, I'd just like some confirmation please before going ahead with the options process, and if indeed it's still valid on the newer versions of the SA.

My DSA came with FW 1.09 installed, and as soon as It turned-up I installed FW 00.01.02. The Main board is version :00.08 and Boot is :00.01.04. FPGA :00.05

Would someone be kind enough to confirm please that using the private Key & Keygen to make the options permanent on the DSA815-TG is still the current method, and do I have to revert back to FW 1.09 before proceeding?

Many Thanks guys

Unfortunately there currently isn't a keygen to activate your Trial Options with firmware 00.01.09, or 00.01.12 with Bootloader 00.01.04.  Your only option is to extend the Trail time (Re. Howardlong's method) of your available Options, which BTW does not include the 10Hz RBW that most of us have had for quite sometime now.  Please read the comments I left in a Reply to 'nkw' above.

[radiogeek97]

Ted
 Greeat opinion post!  and the links were most helpful.  Unfortunately I jst ordered ine of your "not reccomended " units    as far as the vswr bridge.  But I think I can still cancell the order,   As far as extending the trial period that may be the only option for now   I guess those of us that have new machines are stuck for now.  Thanks again for the links

[orbiter]

Ah ok. Thanks for reply ted, I think I'll get a bit of use out of the SA trials first before attempting the FRAM pin 7/8 short. Am I reading correctly that the shorting of pins 7/8 just stop the time counter or reset it on boot etc?

Reading into the post above am I seeing that JTAG reprogramming is required as well as the keygen for the 10Hz RBW option. Or can the keygen be used on it's own to enable this function?

Many Thanks.

[ted572]

Ah ok. Thanks for reply ted, I think I'll get a bit of use out of the SA trials first before attempting the FRAM pin 7/8 short. Am I reading correctly that the shorting of pins 7/8 just stop the time counter or reset it on boot etc?

Reading into the post above am I seeing that JTAG reprogramming is required as well as the keygen for the 10Hz RBW option. Or can the keygen be used on it's own to enable this function?

Many Thanks.

The JTAG reader is required to come up with the Keygen info (beyond my current capability/interest).  Then the Keygen can be used to activate the Options.  The 10Hz RBW is still an Option in there, although it is not provided as a Trial because they don't sell it for the DSA815.  When it is activated it will NOT show up in the Official list like the Trials do.   Although once it is activated you will be able to find it listed as Option 0003 with the key code used to activate it in the Sys Info screens.

[orbiter]

ok ted, understood. 

Thank you

[orbiter]

Just done Howardlong's mod on my new DSA815-TG... Lifting Pin 7 on IC: U1105 from the main-board & then shorting it to pin 8. Working fine on my system with latest Firmware 00.01.12. Boot Version 00.01.04 and with board version 00.08

On each reboot all trials are reset to the value they were at when the system was last turned off before mod (trial time must be available for this mod to work!) 

Thanks Howard

[radiogeek97]

did I read in howards post (or maybee it was somebody else that did the mod also) that lifting pin 7 was NOT needed?  and that you could just short the pins I thought I read that someplace?  Has anybody done this mod and just shorted 7&8 without lifting pin 7?

     Orbiter
Great overall Pics!  just what I was wanting to plan my Mod!  No doubt where pins 7&8 are now

[(In)Sanity]

did I read in howards post (or maybee it was somebody else that did the mod also) that lifting pin 7 was NOT needed?  and that you could just short the pins I thought I read that someplace?  Has anybody done this mod and just shorted 7&8 without lifting pin 7?

So how long do you think it's going to be before they start using the CPU clock for this expiration vs the RTC ?   I guess if you never update your firmware you'll be safe 

Jeff

[orbiter]

did I read in howards post (or maybee it was somebody else that did the mod also) that lifting pin 7 was NOT needed?  and that you could just short the pins I thought I read that someplace?  Has anybody done this mod and just shorted 7&8 without lifting pin 7?

     Orbiter
Great overall Pics!  just what I was wanting to plan my Mod!  No doubt where pins 7&8 are now

I'm on FW 00.01.012 and found that lifting pin 7 was necessary too. I did try just shorting 7/8 initially with pin 7 still in place, but the counter didn't reset to where it was previously following reboot. It's resetting fine on reboot with pin 7 lifted though.

I did do the mod rather quickly though so perhaps I rebooted too quickly/slowly etc between reboots making my findings a little flaky. Perhaps the next mod attemptee could confirm.

[radiogeek97]

well  i finally got her appart with a good sticker and am looking at pins 7&8  WOW small stuff here    I have a few questions out of fear here?

what size and type of tio on my soldering station should i use?  I have a small chizel tip and a real sharp pointed tip.  I have a hakko station what is a safe temp setting.
 As far as lifting the pin is there a prefered method/tools

Pins 7 & * if i just decide to short them am i at risk of doing immediate damage or should i try that first if I am too chicken to try to lift off the pin  sorry for the noob but the chicken in me came out with this 2 day old machine

thanks all

[Howardlong]

For info, as I understand it, it appeared as though the pin 7 pad visually and electrically was not connected to anything, after lifting the chip from the board.

As I hope it was clear, this was never tested, just shorting 7 to 8, without lifting 7. However there was a resistance and diode check run to both rails when the entire chip was lifted which also indicated no connection. At the time of lifting the chip, the PIC solution was installed rather than pursuing the pin shorting method further.

So in view of results so far, I'd recommend lifting pin 7 unless anyone has empirical evidence suggesting otherwise.

[Velund]

...but the chicken in me came out with this 2 day old machine...

If you have little experience with SMT rework - find some board from old dead HDD or something similar (with SOIC chips), and practice first. You will quickly figure out which tip is most convenient for you, and try your handy tools that may help to safely lift the pin.

[radiogeek97]

so lift it I will do thanks for the advice,  why reinvent the wheel if i am this far into it right

Any recomendations on tips heat settings or methods?  i will look in youtube as well but just wondering how you folks did it
thanks

[Howardlong]

sorry for the noob but the chicken in me came out with this 2 day old machine

The one I'm familiar with still has 34 hr 11 mins left on the trial, probably less then 2 hours use!

[radiogeek97]

Why didnt i think of that<<< ima dope   i will dig into my junk bin and try some dry runs.   

[radiogeek97]

Howard & all my new friends

   Well I have some news that may be helpful to all

Due to my ineptness or cowardess with  2 soldering stations tips tweezers magnification ect I could not get pin 7 lifted over an hour, YES i know some of you are probably thinking this idot shouldnt be inside the device if he cant lift one pin But that being said  
My italian temper kicked in and I said bleep it just short the pins without lifting the 1 leg and fire the thing up if it blows put it back together and seal it back up

My findings: 
 #1 it did not blow up
#2 no manual IP addresses like we were told BUT dhcp works fine (tested it)
#3 the licens keys on my machine go from 34h-8min-57sec , 34h-8min-53 & 34h-8min-55 sec when the machine is on the time counts down as if the trial clock is ticking away.  I let the machine tick away to about 34H-6-min then i rebooted it.  Upon reboot the trial clock resumes at 34h-8min-57sec which is prob where it was frozen in time when the pins were shorted.
     I have tryied soft powering off the machine and removing power all together and when the machine reboots the trial clock resumes at 34h-8min-57sec.
I have tested the lan as stated above and I have played with the machine all keys and functions seem to be fine!  I am going to button this thing up Is there anything else you folks would want me to test,try ect before I do ?

[avvidclif]

Get a set of dental picks. They have superfine tips and can easily get under a single pin. Tin the trace and pin in question and touch the trace with the soldering iron tip and the pin will lift. Don't apply a lot of pressure or you'll lift the pad and pin before the solder melts.

YMMV, mess it up and it's your fault. Just reporting how I do it.

[radiogeek97]

Going to order some of those fleabay Chinese dental pics now. Thanks
    Since I have not had any negative results this far, ran the machine for a few hours off and on ect ect I think I will leave this machine as is, unless the concern us is to lift the pin

  I have v109 FW  will have to contact Rigel for v12 I will post if I have issues performing the upgrade with pins 7&8 jumped with pin 7 in place

[Howardlong]

Preferred tools of enagagement here are tweezers style 7 (angled with very thin tips), a scalpel tip, and a Weller WSP80 iron with LT1 0.25mm tip.

[radiogeek97]

At this point with several hours of off on testing, letting the clock run down rebooting testing machine functionality, I am pretty sure just plain shorting the pins has not caused any ill effects more so than lifting 7 and then shorting.  For purposes of wanting to button up the unit I think that's what I wil do, I am pretty happy that Howard's prior  testing on the chip indicating no apparent electrical pitfall to not lifting pin 7 even though he did lift it for his more advanced interface.
      I think my real world testing may make it easier for others, and should answer the question some had about to lift or not to.   I will continue to experiment and test the dsa today and will post any further results.   Feel free to ask if u all want me to try anything knowing how this particular machine is modded

Howard thanks I a going to get some exacto knifes and some of the tips you mensioned as well