EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[Fungus]

Latest comments on their video...

Batteroo: "We are allowing independent testers and reviewers to do all those tests you are mentioning with our Media Test Kits."

Some guy: "Can we ask which independent testers you are sending your media kits to? So we can see the results. Also, when do you expect to send those media kits out?"

Batteroo: "Batteriser team were offered an exclusive by a couple big tech magazines similar to PC world (who did the first exclusive). It is not official yet, but I heard the names Wired magazine, Tech Crunch, and official electronic certification for retail stores. As of now, my information is very limited on which one is doing the exclusive, but I will announce it on this YouTube channel as soon as it is decided. It will most likely be published between 1-2 weeks from now. After the exclusive, we will send out additional Media Test Kits to anyone who wants one."

[edy]

Latest comments on their video...

Batteroo: "We are allowing independent testers and reviewers to do all those tests you are mentioning with our Media Test Kits."

Some guy: "Can we ask which independent testers you are sending your media kits to? So we can see the results. Also, when do you expect to send those media kits out?"

Batteroo: "Batteriser team were offered an exclusive by a couple big tech magazines similar to PC world (who did the first exclusive). It is not official yet, but I heard the names Wired magazine, Tech Crunch, and official electronic certification for retail stores. As of now, my information is very limited on which one is doing the exclusive, but I will announce it on this YouTube channel as soon as it is decided. It will most likely be published between 1-2 weeks from now. After the exclusive, we will send out additional Media Test Kits to anyone who wants one."

Wow! Sounds promising... If they actually follow through with this, it would really help settle the debate once and for all. Send a Media Kit to Dave Jones please.

By the way, I read that PC World article again. It really sounds quite genuine and there are a lot of people involved that they quote, all who seem reputable. If this is a scam, it is one involving a lot of players. But what I don't understand is why they just don't show actual performance. They already had someone "steal" their prototypes from their office (according to their story) and they are planning to launch in Fall 2015 (according to PC World) so if they are that close to production (and I still can't see how they can do that in 2-3 months) why not just show actual results by real independent labs? It will be out in the wild very shortly anyways, who is going to copy them and they are protected by patents.

Why all these games?

[Rasz]

Latest comments on their video...

Batteroo: "We are allowing independent testers and reviewers to do all those tests you are mentioning with our Media Test Kits."

Some guy: "Can we ask which independent testers you are sending your media kits to? So we can see the results. Also, when do you expect to send those media kits out?"

Batteroo: "Batteriser team were offered an exclusive by a couple big tech magazines similar to PC world (who did the first exclusive). It is not official yet, but I heard the names Wired magazine, Tech Crunch, and official electronic certification for retail stores. As of now, my information is very limited on which one is doing the exclusive, but I will announce it on this YouTube channel as soon as it is decided. It will most likely be published between 1-2 weeks from now. After the exclusive, we will send out additional Media Test Kits to anyone who wants one."

Wow! Sounds promising... If they actually follow through with this, it would really help settle the debate once and for all. Send a Media Kit to Dave Jones please.

no, they will send it after securing PR deal with "Wired magazine, Tech Crunch" or another TOTALLY NON TECHNICAL startup oriented venue

Why all these games?

because its a SCAM

[LabSpokane]

Just to illustrate the level of desperation at Batteroo, the Indiegogo campaign has been repurposed as the wholesale channel. 

[Bud]

Clapping cymbals monkey - A new design for an EEVblog shirt perhaps?

I wanted to say they may need a new company logo, but your tshirt idea is nice

 

And the slogan may say something like "We tap into your underused inner" , or perhaps "Feel 80% better!"

I can't believe I was so rude to offend those nice people...I was off by 720% , sorry folks. Here is the correct slogan:

Feel 800% better with B@tteraser

[Bud]

... the Indiegogo campaign has been repurposed as the wholesale channel. 

That is very smart, isn't it. Just get a few suckers to sign up and you are done rather than dealing with hundreds of them.

[EEVblog]

So after all this time and effort, they still haven't shown a single device that gives the x8 life they claim in the logo. Why?

[Bud]

Because ...-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ilr--_2hzcE

[5ky]

So after all this time and effort, they still haven't shown a single device that gives the x8 life they claim in the logo. Why?

I concur.  Hell, I'd be happy just to see those "dead" AA batteries make that monkey clap with the batterisers.  (but the lack of information on their current output tells me that they'd probably struggle to climb "Brushed DC Motor Mountain")

Also, what a terrible product name.  When I hear "batteriser" out-loud, I think of a wife-beating redneck's nickname. They couldn't come up with something like "Battery Glove"?

[ez24]

Because ...-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ilr--_2hzcE

Now we are talking about holy shit?  Aren't cows holy in India - so this bullshit much be holy do do  so this means this subject is holy do do.  Besides the VI vs T chart this is another reason to buy one.  I am sure they will sell a million to members of this forum.  I wonder how many have "secretly" ordered.

[LabSpokane]

... the Indiegogo campaign has been repurposed as the wholesale channel. 

That is very smart, isn't it. Just get a few suckers to sign up and you are done rather than dealing with hundreds of them.

From what I've seen over the years, it looks to me like they just rented a bigger backhoe to dig their hole.  Their CM might be telling them to go pound sand right now. $100k to $200k is small small account to tie up a production line with. And if the CM has any smarts, they will make Batteroo own all the inventory for the MOQs.  They might be on the hook for a few hundred thousand bucks just in excess inventory on the boost converter alone. Then there's the inductor which is likely custom and long lead time. A CM might carry that inventory for a Dell or HP, but not a company with less than $1M to its name.

This is just such a train wreck it's hard to turn away.

[jippie]

I quoted this post, but don't take it personally. I've seen similar remarks all across this thread.

Just 30 more days for Dave to educate people.

Oh come on guys, Dave is not the only one who can educate people. Anyone can do that, everybody here has a voice on Internet. Leave comments on published articles on news sites, write an article on your own blog, link debunking articles on your facebook or linkedin, ..., you can think of other things I'm sure. Search engines will pick up the blogs and the links, that is what we are looking for: Make the search engines believe there are controversial product claims.

Whatever you do, don't sit back while telling someone else [Dave] to get going.

[timofonic]

My main problem with Bob and his brother (or even the Chris one) is that they seems to really believe what they are saying.

There is no way you could do a 40min video like that, showing your face without believing for even 1ns on what you are saying.

The main problem is that this person have a really basic knowledge of what EE is, discovered some stuff recently, but never work on real hardware design, and believe they found THE solution, as their test are completely flawed that they give them false confidence in what they claim..

maybe 10 or 15 years ago I would may have thought the same thing about the spike that "make the device stop" but since, I've learn thing, look how device are designed, done some design myself (not a lot that's true, but work on some design by others, event crapish Chinese design) or better watch Dave's YT channel, and learn things, taught myself, learn from other experience, and even if some part of what they say is true, seeing the "unintentional" scam around is clear.

In fact, they are not thinking outside the box, they are completely inside the box, so deep inside that they can't see how false they are...

You really underrate a lot what a very sophisticated i psychopath is able to do to get whatever they want.

- A psychopath is cold blood, very logic and planning even the slightest detail. They are perversely empathic in a way they don't care a shit about others, but they use their skills to gain social popularity and convince others by lots of manipulative ways.
* Most best marketing people could be considered psychopaths, as tons of CEOs too.
- A sociopath if impulsive and is unable to be so logical, not smart enough and do acts with previous thinking of them.

Just learn some  core concepts of psychiatry, psychology and  neuroscience. Despite there's some pseudoscience crap in it and bad practices, some of it is scientifically proven.

[AmmoJammo]

99,272 sold... although that may have increased by now...

Delivery November 2015, so assume they have to be finished by mid November...

That's 70 days to produce them, assuming the production facility works 6 days a week, thats 60 days.... 16 hours a day?

1655 per day... 103 per hour... 35 seconds per batteriser...

Of course, China probably work 8 days a week, 40 hours a day

[jancumps]

My main problem with Bob and his brother (or even the Chris one) is that they seems to really believe what they are saying.

There is no way you could do a 40min video like that, showing your face without believing for even 1ns on what you are saying.

The main problem is that this person have a really basic knowledge of what EE is, discovered some stuff recently, but never work on real hardware design, and believe they found THE solution, as their test are completely flawed that they give them false confidence in what they claim..

maybe 10 or 15 years ago I would may have thought the same thing about the spike that "make the device stop" but since, I've learn thing, look how device are designed, done some design myself (not a lot that's true, but work on some design by others, event crapish Chinese design) or better watch Dave's YT channel, and learn things, taught myself, learn from other experience, and even if some part of what they say is true, seeing the "unintentional" scam around is clear.

In fact, they are not thinking outside the box, they are completely inside the box, so deep inside that they can't see how false they are...

You really underrate a lot what a very sophisticated i psychopath is able to do to get whatever they want.

- A psychopath is cold blood, very logic and planning even the slightest detail. They are perversely empathic in a way they don't care a shit about others, but they use their skills to gain social popularity and convince others by lots of manipulative ways.
* Most best marketing people could be considered psychopaths, as tons of CEOs too.
- A sociopath if impulsive and is unable to be so logical, not smart enough and do acts with previous thinking of them.

Just learn some  core concepts of psychiatry, psychology and  neuroscience. Despite there's some pseudoscience crap in it and bad practices, some of it is scientifically proven.

Back to the electronics subject maybe? That's where our expertise is.

[HighVoltage]

- A psychopath is cold blood, very logic and planning even the slightest detail.

+1
I just had a deep discussion in the last weeks about this with an engineering friend who ran in to some psychopath with his business.
We came across this very interesting PDF:
Psychopathic Leader - Do they exist.pdf

Enjoy the reading....

[EEVblog]

Back to the electronics subject maybe? That's where our expertise is.

Yes, try and keep this thread technical, as that is what is being discussed here.

[AmmoJammo]

What are FCC emission regulations? Roohparvar says the butteriser isn't subject to those regulations, but my very brief reading of the standard, I can't see why it wouldn't be applicable?

[jancumps]

What are FCC emission regulations? Roohparvar says the butteriser isn't subject to those regulations, but my very brief reading of the standard, I can't see why it wouldn't be applicable?

That may also be a real issue for the end user, having a noisy switch regulator plugged inside your device.
And in some cases you insert the battery inside the shielding. Nothing is going to stop the switch-mode noise.

[Fungus]

Delivery November 2015, so assume they have to be finished by mid November...

How long does FCC approval take?

[AmmoJammo]

Delivery November 2015, so assume they have to be finished by mid November...

How long does FCC approval take?

They aren't getting FCC approval. :p

[Fungus]

That may also be a real issue for the end user, having a noisy switch regulator plugged inside your device.
And in some cases you insert the battery inside the shielding. Nothing is going to stop the switch-mode noise.

Well...it's hidden inside a metal bracket on one side and has a close-fitting battery on the other. It might be self-shielding.

I'm sure Dave can test that for them when they send him his press evaluation kit.

[EEVblog]

What are FCC emission regulations? Roohparvar says the butteriser isn't subject to those regulations

Where does he say that?

[janekm]

99,272 sold... although that may have increased by now...

Delivery November 2015, so assume they have to be finished by mid November...

That's 70 days to produce them, assuming the production facility works 6 days a week, thats 60 days.... 16 hours a day?

1655 per day... 103 per hour... 35 seconds per batteriser...

Of course, China probably work 8 days a week, 40 hours a day

You do know that some factories have more than one worker, right?

[AmmoJammo]

99,272 sold... although that may have increased by now...

Delivery November 2015, so assume they have to be finished by mid November...

That's 70 days to produce them, assuming the production facility works 6 days a week, thats 60 days.... 16 hours a day?

1655 per day... 103 per hour... 35 seconds per batteriser...

Of course, China probably work 8 days a week, 40 hours a day

You do know that some factories have more than one worker, right?

Nah, I've never seen that before