For me, it’s pretty simple, knobs!
So is there any reason whatsoever to prefer the Siglent SDS1104X-E over the portable and more convenient Micsig TO1104?
Unless you must have the small form factor portability the Micsig is out spec'ed by a SDS1104X-E and it's also cheaper. The Siglent does have a smaller display but a greater feature set.
I wouldn't call it out specced. The TO1104 has different features like touch screen, battery power, ability to record videos of signals, input filtering, HDMI output, 8GB of internal storage and it can decode 2 different protocols at the same time. Last but not least the TO1104 doesn't have any (known) bugs.
The signal noise is low since all the scopes in this price class use the same analog frontend / ADC chips.
Here is a TO1104 review I did last year:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/micsig-to1104-(similar-to-rigol-1104z)/msg1196293/#msg1196293
So is there any reason whatsoever to prefer the Siglent SDS1104X-E over the portable and more convenient Micsig TO1104?
Unless you must have the small form factor portability the Micsig is out spec'ed by a SDS1104X-E and it's also cheaper. The Siglent does have a smaller display but a greater feature set.
What would you say are the most important feature advantages of SDS1104X-E over T01104?
The TO1104 is missing bugs, unethical corporate sales tactics (like shipping bad SDS1202X-E units in Feb 2018 after the compensation issue was reported back in Sep 2017) and eevblog threads where members complain about it. Actually it is kind of boring (it just works, plain and simple and looks like owners love it)
TO1104 serial decode does not show decode list or table, but as nctnico commented, it can decode 2 serial protocols (UART + i2c, UART TX + UART RX, SPI MOSI + SPI MISO, etc)
EDIT: corrected error pointed by tautech.
So is there any reason whatsoever to prefer the Siglent SDS1104X-E over the portable and more convenient Micsig TO1104?
Unless you must have the small form factor portability the Micsig is out spec'ed by a SDS1104X-E and it's also cheaper. The Siglent does have a smaller display but a greater feature set.
What would you say are the most important feature advantages of SDS1104X-E over T01104?
For me, it’s pretty simple, knobs!
2x 1GSa/s ADC's
2x 14 M memory modules (one for each ADC)
Lower front end noise, see here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-xds3062a-input-noise-(good)-and-glitches-(bad)/msg1433850/#msg1433850
Search facilities
Bode plot
FFT
16ch LA
Fast UI.
But keep doing your homework to get the full picture.
Threads:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/
Micsig TO1104 has FFT
Yep, of course.
To quote nctnico from his review:
Unfortunately the FFT function is a bit minimalistic. The length varies depending on how much of the waveform is displayed. The maximum FFT length I managed to get is 43kpts which isn't bad at all but I think that the FFT is performed on the display data just like the measurements. This oscilloscope has a lot of processing power under the hood so I expected it to do way longer FFT.
SDS1000X-E models have 1 Mpt FFT.
True but on the upside the TO1104 FFT implementation allows to do FFT on a part of a long signal which can be useful in some cases.
Is this a test how far you can nest quotes before the forum software crashes?
Is this a test how far you can nest quotes before the forum software crashes?
I've seen worse. Want to try?
Hi All,
i have ordered both the Rigol DS1054Z and Siglent SDS1202X-E and did a 1-on-1 comparison for the features that interest me the most as an electronics hobbyist. I have created a decision matrix Excel table which you might want to check under:
https://www.microfarad.de/blog/oscilloscope-comparison/Please note that i am not affiliated to any of the manufacturers and the outcome only reflects my personal preferences. You may feed the Excel table with different input data as per your own requirements and will get the result in favor of the one or the other device.
Best Regards
Karim
Good job Karim, the DS1054Z (with upgrades) is hard to beat especially with 4 channels.
Hello, I'm new to this forum, I have to buy my very first oscilloscope, I've checked out the Excel decision matrix, but still I have fear clicking that Buy Now button on Amazon. Are you seriously sure 4 channel with "worst" specs are better than 2 with "better" specs? Everybody says everything and the contrary... People I've asked *personally* say 2 channel are enough. I don't know if ordering the Rigol will make me totally sure I'm happy, and what I could get IF I've had ordered the Siglent instead of the Rigol... Does anybody have a clue about the comparison BY 2019 and with ALL the upgrades and fixes ALREADY applied to those two oscilloscopes?
Thanks!
after the latest firmware upgrade, I would say that the advantage is on the Siglent SDS1202X-E side. If you are not sure 2-Channel vs 4-Channel, then probably you don't need 4 channels.... but you might need the extra channels after a short time.
If you can get the SDS1104X-E, much better. It is more expensive, but I think you will not regret the decision.
If you're on a tight budget, the 1054Z all day long. Two channels and more bandwidth is far more crippling than four channels and lacking a bit of extra bandwidth, plus a few other software features. The 1104X-E is the better scope, but I don't think it's $150-$200 "better". I say this as an 1104X-E owner. I'll also note that you should shop around and compare... I bought my 1104X-E on Amazon.ca, and their price was just ~$20CAD ($500CAD) more than the 1054Z ($480CAD), making my decision a no-brainer.
Hello, I'm new to this forum, I have to buy my very first oscilloscope, I've checked out the Excel decision matrix, but still I have fear clicking that Buy Now button on Amazon. Are you seriously sure 4 channel with "worst" specs are better than 2 with "better" specs? Everybody says everything and the contrary... People I've asked *personally* say 2 channel are enough.
It all depends on what you do with it but really you shouldn't be considering 2 channels these days (IMHO).
On an intellectual level you
can do anything with two channels, ie. you can trigger on one signal and see another signal relative to the trigger point. On a practical level: Two channels means a lot of probe swapping, especially in the age of digital electronics.
I don't know if ordering the Rigol will make me totally sure I'm happy, and what I could get IF I've had ordered the Siglent instead of the Rigol... Does anybody have a clue about the comparison BY 2019 and with ALL the upgrades and fixes ALREADY applied to those two oscilloscopes?
If it's your first oscilloscope then the Rigol
will make you happy. The practical difference between Rigols and Siglents isn't as much as people like to think - both show wiggly lines on screen just fine, neither is lacking any major features.
I see in that chart that "Need to press the math button twice" is a red mark for the Rigol. Have you looked at how many button presses and know twiddles it takes to show a measurement in a Siglent? (a lot!) The Rigol has a row of buttons down the left side of the screen dedicated to that.
Bandwidth? A hacked Rigol is a lot closer to 200Mhz than it is to 100Mhz.
etc.
At the end of the day it comes down to how much money you want to spend. For the price of a 4-channel Siglent you can have a Rigol plus a decent multimeter (or soldering iron, or power supply...)
Hi All,
i have ordered both the Rigol DS1054Z and Siglent SDS1202X-E and did a 1-on-1 comparison for the features that interest me the most as an electronics hobbyist. I have created a decision matrix Excel table which you might want to check under:
https://www.microfarad.de/blog/oscilloscope-comparison/
I have both and there is something I don't really like in the DS1000Z series: when you select "dots" mode it doesn't display actual samples, but interpolated data which, in my opinion, is a big mistake. Rigol developers seem to favor some cosmetic criteria when deciding how to display data (non transparent handling of sin(x)/x interpolation, no real dots mode, etc).
That said I am not in the Rigol or Siglent bashing crowd. Both instruments are extremely useful depending on your needs. I don't regret buying any of them although, of course, they would be much better if some shortcomings were addressed.
I have both and there is something I don't really like in the DS1000Z series: when you select "dots" mode it doesn't display actual samples, but interpolated data which, in my opinion, is a big mistake. Rigol developers seem to favor some cosmetic criteria when deciding how to display data (non transparent handling of sin(x)/x interpolation, no real dots mode, etc).
How often do you use dots mode in real life?
The "cosmetic" criteria of the Rigol actually shows a
more accurate signal when the sample rate:bandwidth ratio is high enough to seriously distort the signal due to the Gibbs phenomenon. nb. It doesn't do it all the time, it only kicks in with all channels enabled and at maximum sample rate. With one or two channels? It does the industry standard sin(x)/x.
That said I am not in the Rigol or Siglent bashing crowd. Both instruments are extremely useful depending on your needs. I don't regret buying any of them although, of course, they would be much better if some shortcomings were addressed.
If those sort of "shortcomings" bother you then you need to spend more money and get a real oscilloscope.
I have both and there is something I don't really like in the DS1000Z series: when you select "dots" mode it doesn't display actual samples, but interpolated data which, in my opinion, is a big mistake. Rigol developers seem to favor some cosmetic criteria when deciding how to display data (non transparent handling of sin(x)/x interpolation, no real dots mode, etc).
How often do you use dots mode in real life?
The thing is, dots are not useful at all unless they are implemented so that raw data is shown. Unless dots are really different from the other representation their only value is cosmetic. So what does sound better to you? A feature that turns out to be only cosmetic, or a feature that also can offer you more information that might help you judge a possible problem better?
That said I am not in the Rigol or Siglent bashing crowd. Both instruments are extremely useful depending on your needs. I don't regret buying any of them although, of course, they would be much better if some shortcomings were addressed.
If those sort of "shortcomings" bother you then you need to spend more money and get a real oscilloscope.
As I said I don't regret anything! For the record, I could say that the full ROI was achieved when I solved a problem in half an hour instead of spending several days on it.
And shortcoming free products don't exist of course. I don't think either of them are not real oscilloscopes anyway. They can be better or worse than others, that's an entirely different question. But to me they are real and not toys at all
And shortcoming free products don't exist of course. I don't think either of them are not real oscilloscopes anyway.
So why derail yet another "My first oscilloscope?" thread with a tiny technical detail that makes no practical difference in real life?*
If somebody comes in with a specific list of requirements that the Rigol doesn't meet, then then fair enough, mention it.
As a general purpose 'scope for people on a budget? The Rigol is awesome! 1.6 ns rise times and four channels for under $400? Give me more of that!
The thing is, dots are not useful at all unless they are implemented so that raw data is shown.
I'm not sure they're useful, ever. Real signals aren't made of dots.
Bandwidth? A hacked Rigol is a lot closer to 200Mhz than it is to 100Mhz.
Measured -3dB bandwidth of unlocked 1000Z is around 130 MHz. That is awesome for the price..
Also 18000 USD Keysight 3104T doesn't even have dot mode. Nobody cares...Also sin(x)/x is automatically handled, no user option. Also, nobody cares..
Like Borjam says. they are both extremely useful little scopes, that in a hands of a person that knows how to use them, will be good enough for a lot of professional work, not to mention hobby...
Also 18000 USD Keysight 3104T doesn't even have dot mode. Nobody cares...Also sin(x)/x is automatically handled, no user option. Also, nobody cares..
This.
Measured -3dB bandwidth of unlocked 1000Z is around 130 MHz. That is awesome for the price..
See image above for a better measurement.
From time to time Tequipment.net (you can get eevblog discount from them) sells refurb DS1054Z (I just looked and can't find one right now). After discount, I paid $285 shipped for my DS1054Z and it gets near daily use.
Hi All,
i have ordered both the Rigol DS1054Z and Siglent SDS1202X-E and did a 1-on-1 comparison for the features that interest me the most as an electronics hobbyist. I have created a decision matrix Excel table which you might want to check under:
https://www.microfarad.de/blog/oscilloscope-comparison/
Please note that i am not affiliated to any of the manufacturers and the outcome only reflects my personal preferences. You may feed the Excel table with different input data as per your own requirements and will get the result in favor of the one or the other device.
If you have time you should add the GW Instek GDS1054B (hacked) to this comparison. I think it can win on several points from both scopes already in your comparison.