EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[Galenbo]

This picture is quite strange, looks almost like a 3D rendering, and what the f* it is upside down?

My guess is a mix of a real picture of the plastic, and the rest photoshopped into the image.
The item on top looks somewhat real, the other 3 items??? Strange.



 

[Godzil]

This picture is quite strange, looks almost like a 3D rendering, and what the f* it is upside down?

My guess is a mix of a real picture of the plastic, and the rest photoshopped into the image.
The item on top looks somewhat real, the other 3 items??? Strange.

When you look at the picture on the correct rotation is seems less like a rendering, but again, why put the device on the wrong orientation and then rotate the picture to let read the name instead of... put them in the correct orientation?
This is so unprofessional

[g.lewarne]

So delivery is now... when?

They have been very quiet recently

[Kjelt]

After we expanded our livingroom in september 2012 I told my gf that I would have the (own built) lighting system operational with Christmass.
Unfortunately it took much longer since the first batch of pcb's had stability and EMC issues, so end december she asked me where the lighting system was.
I told her: "I am still on target, the lighting system will be operational with Christmass 2013"  
So batteriser's holiday season , which year?

[Wytnucls]

No drama. The AAA sleeves don't have PCBs installed yet. They won't clip on the plastic retainers without them. That's why the box had to be positioned upside down for the pretty picture.

[Fungus]

No drama. The AAA sleeves don't have PCBs installed yet. They won't clip on the plastic retainers without them. That's why the box had to be positioned upside down for the pretty picture.

Ummmm... no. They could have put the opposite side of the box on the table.

I'm assuming they didn't notice the mistake until after the photography team had left.   

[LabSpokane]

Yoohoo! Oh Batteroo!

When will we seek the new FCC Class B EMC compliance tests for the AA at 1.5A plus the other models?  Shipping without testing the device in its actual usage mode is very naughty, and the FCC might fill your stockings with coal this Christmas without those test reports on file.

[Godzil]

What is funny is that we clearly see the shadow of the person who took the photo

[Fungus]

When you look at the picture on the correct rotation is seems less like a rendering, but again, why put the device on the wrong orientation and then rotate the picture to let read the name instead of... put them in the correct orientation?
This is so unprofessional

Ah, it's obvious when you see the pic the right way up.



If you put them the right way up the camera would have to go below the table to hide the fact that there's no PCBs in them.

[g.lewarne]

what if they actually ship them without the PCB installed? 

[Fungus]

what if they actually ship them without the PCB installed?

It might work better...!

[crispy_tofu]

what if they actually ship them without the PCB installed?

Then something is seriously wrong with management.

[EEVblog]

what if they actually ship them without the PCB installed?

Performance could actually improve in many products!

[Godzil]

what if they actually ship them without the PCB installed?

Performance could actually improve in many products!

For about 100% better?

[al brown]

We are the British guys you are talking about in the quote below:

It is a counter-attack against Batteroo.

We believe one of the people we disclosed our ideas to in 2009 leaked it to USA - we showed the (poor) presentation above to some people in 2009 - all under Non-disclosure agreement - but we know how they work.

Anyway, we found out it would not work in a device that draws more than milliamps, so dropped the 'sleeve' idea  and moved onto the product we now have (it uses the milliamps in LEDs until the battery voltage is 0.3Volts - that reduces the toxicity of a 1.2V cell by 75% - much better for landfill and we get light for weeks - yes we choose our LEDs carefully - Nichia usually). We didn't do much with it as we did not know about crowdfunding and have no business sense.

When Batteroo launched their campaign we were PISSED as can be. A scam using our idea and gaining $ thousands.

If you look at our website you will see that we can prove we thought of using the well known circuit by placing it in a container (sleeve like) in about 2008 (we worked fulltime then and it was in our lunchbreaks) - we filed for patent in 2010 (see website).

Yes we launched our batterySqueeze website in 2015; as I said we hoped to use Bateroo's BAD publicity to help with our product that WORKS.

www.allproductdesign.co.uk is ours and was live years ago. We are simple inventors that apply science and technology in ways that others have not thought of before. We cannot campaign. We are nerds. We think in different ways, but at least our products work.

We were made redundant recently (the UK is outsourcing the R&D we did to the USA !   so we started a small limited company this year.

www.newboatgear.co.uk
www.ledknowhow.co.uk
www.batterysqueeze.com
www.growbagstand.co.uk

Have you seen this https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/battery-squeeze-make-flat-aa-batteries-work-again#/story.
Some very interesting claims made in their extremely poor campaign video and story

One flat batter last 6 weeks. Insert two and will give light for 12 weeks

A light that runs 24/7 for 12 weeks on already flat batteries, can't be a very bright light.

 

6 weeks is with LDR in place so circuit only activates at night. 12 weeks with 2 aa cells in parallel

Honestly, this has to be a piss-take on Batteriser...

The campaign video is worse than I could ever produce and I have no experience in video production. We rushed into this trying to counter Batteroo - video etc not our skillset.
They quote "In 2009 or 2008 we (3 recently made redundant scientists) had a light bulb moment. Since then we have tried to sell the invention"...
So he cannot remember when that light bulb moment occurred and clearly does not date his notes.
I thought every engineer or scientist of any discipline dated notes.  We have over 50 inventions on the go in our freetime often on the back of envelopes - 2008 was long ago - we did find our patent application in 2010 and post it on website however.
Do a 'whois' lookup on their domain and the domain was created in June 2015...
Any 6 year old kid can build a joule thief, it is well documented in numerous forms on the net.

But WE were the only ones to think of sticking it an enclosure (wooden to begin with) and apply it to AA cells. We have always stated we are average scientists that stand upon the shoulders of giants, but we think in different ways and are always trying to apply scientific knowledge (in our freetime)

Surely this is a Batteriser piss-take... 

Maybe I am wrong.  As said, COUNTER ATTACK - that looks like it will fail -  only 800 page views in a month - the claims in our patent application are practically word for word what batteroo have used, but like all good scammers, they have backers and skills we don't.

We (3 of us) pooled our saving when the government scrapped us (average age 42) and have been trying our best, but we can't sell - we can hardly socialise, let alone do a sales pitch (except for the two devices seen on our other websites) and we don't sell a lot of those, but all customers like them and love the lifetime guarantee.  All our savings have gone and we have all cashed our pensions in early just to survive. We are all a bit depressed, but hey ho - we aren't dead yet.

[al brown]

Honestly, this has to be a piss-take on Batteriser...

Price in pounds? Check.

Yep, that's British humour (really!)

British desperation - that is the 3rd invention stolen from us (and abused)

www.allproductdesign.co.uk/Video.html

[al brown]

Have you seen this https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/battery-squeeze-make-flat-aa-batteries-work-again#/story.
Some very interesting claims made in their extremely poor campaign video and story

One flat batter last 6 weeks. Insert two and will give light for 12 weeks

A light that runs 24/7 for 12 weeks on already flat batteries, can't be a very bright light.

Looks like Batteroo have some competition. Now why didn't I think of that! 

The sons of guns are the competitors - we thought of it first - and then realised it wouldn't work so developed a product that did - we are simply trying to claw our way back

[al brown]

Yep, that's British humour (really!)

Sorry, I don't get your point Fungus...

Point: Somebody in Britain thought it would be funny to do that.

I wish.  The doctor actually stuck me on anti-depressants for a while. No one over here is laughing at these Silicon Valley Scams

[PA0PBZ]

Unfortunately the same clueless claim that draining a battery to 0.4V will give you 3x longer life than when draining to 1.2V 

[al brown]

Unfortunately the same clueless claim that draining a battery to 0.4V will give you 3x longer life than when draining to 1.2V 

If a battery lasts 1.5 to 1.2V = 0.3V and then 1.2 to 0.3 = 0.9 V, that is 3x.

Or if it lasts 1 week in an xbox controller and then 3 weeks non-stop in our device, that is 3x.

There are statistics, statistics and damn lies.

[PA0PBZ]

Unfortunately the same clueless claim that draining a battery to 0.4V will give you 3x longer life than when draining to 1.2V 

If a battery lasts 1.5 to 1.2V = 0.3V and then 1.2 to 0.3 = 0.9 V, that is 3x.

Or if it lasts 1 week in an xbox controller and then 3 weeks non-stop in our device, that is 3x.

There are statistics, statistics and damn lies.

Sure, if you ignore the fact that a battery at about 1.0V has only 1% energy left that's true.
I advise you to read this thread and then come back with your calculations...

[al brown]

Unfortunately the same clueless claim that draining a battery to 0.4V will give you 3x longer life than when draining to 1.2V 

If a battery lasts 1.5 to 1.2V = 0.3V and then 1.2 to 0.3 = 0.9 V, that is 3x.

Or if it lasts 1 week in an xbox controller and then 3 weeks non-stop in our device, that is 3x.

There are statistics, statistics and damn lies.

Sure, if you ignore the fact that a battery at about 1.0V has only 1% energy left that's true.
I advise you to read this thread and then come back with your calculations...

We have a product that works.

We SHOW it works LIVE unlike Batteroo.

The stated statistics are irrelevant - our campaign is rubbish - we had to do something to get peoples' attention.

We won't get the product to market even though it has benefits and not a scam such as the Batteroo product.

Do you doubt our product has benefits? Such as 3 weeks of light and 75% reduction in wet chemical toxins?

[Biff383]

  I kinda like the wood sleeve idea,but only if you make the inductor out of spider web. Green is good.

[PA0PBZ]

Do you doubt our product has benefits?

I'm sure your product has benefits, like any joule thief it's a niche product that can get a bit of light out of otherwise thrown away batteries.
It's your 3x claim that I call clueless, and I'm just guessing here that you know it is.
Would I use it? No, I'm fine without, my light switch still works and I have no need for candlelight in my room.

[al brown]

Do you doubt our product has benefits?

I'm sure your product has benefits...
...Would I use it? No, I'm fine without, my light switch still works and I have no need for candlelight in my room.

Meanwhile, in the UK alone 43 000 tonnes of AA cells alone (let alone other sizes) go to landfill gradually increasing the toxicity of the land and then water table whilst we offer a cheap, everlasting alternative.

When your electricity fails, our houses are lit up very well (I could measure the lux etc, but much better than 1 candle) using batteries that we used to throw away.

Safe lights to make house look occupied instead of 240 volt timers and bulbs. 

Small lightweight devices for campers, sailors, tent pegs lit up with rubbish batteries.

Lots of benefits - no?

Not to mention Third World countries that can only afford 10 AA batteries a month in their mud huts.

We will get nowhere and remain unemployed I suppose - too old to re-employ, obviously can't sell. We'll become a burden to the state whilst they pay us to go sailing.

I am beginning to hate inventing; especially when others either steal the IP and make money from it or make money from scams.