EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[Brumby]

To answer Michael's question - maybe it's because 8 is a lucky number for the Chinese.

(As good an answer as any, isn't it?)

[ozwolf]

To answer Michael's question - maybe it's because 8 is a lucky number for the Chinese.

(As good an answer as any, isn't it?)

It's very likely the correct answer.

I very nearly got scammed on the Indiegogo BE Maker Kit (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/be-maker-kit-plus-free-lessons-on-electronics-from-zero-to-internet-of-things#/comments).  It's target funding was $88,888.  Guess what, head scammer lived in China. The second in command lives in Florida USA.

The parallels in these two campaigns are remarkable.

It took nearly 1 1/2 years, but I finally did get some product from a person who bought the backer list.

Ozwolf

[Delta]

Interesting stuff!  I'd wondered why that online casino was called 888poker.com...

Makes sense given that the Chinese are known for their fondness of a flutter!

[Brumby]

DID YOU KNOW - The 2008 Beijing Olympics opening ceremony began at 8pm on 08/08/08.  (And it was not by accident.)


If you want to upset a Chinese, put some 4's their way.  It is a very bad number - as their word for that number sounds a lot like their word for 'death'.

Other numbers have meanings, too, but they are the ones I remember.

[coppice]

DID YOU KNOW - The 2008 Beijing Olympics opening ceremony began at 8pm on 08/08/08.  (And it was not by accident.)


If you want to upset a Chinese, put some 4's their way.  It is a very bad number - as their word for that number sounds a lot like their word for 'death'.

Other numbers have meanings, too, but they are the ones I remember.

4 sounds like dead. 8 sounds like wealth. The Chinese are really big on these things. Go in a western shop and things have prices like 99.99, trying hard to avoid that third figure before the decimal point. Go in a Chinese shop and they might price something like 98.88, eager to stay below 3 digits, but keen to get as many 8s in the number as possible.

[Kjelt]

Go in a Chinese shop and they might price something like 98.88, eager to stay below 3 digits, but keen to get as many 8s in the number as possible.

Interesting! In the computershop I worked 20 yrs ago the products were priced with the last digits (always odd numbers btw) meant how much rebate the seller could give during negotiating.
Saved the sellers for looking each article up or asking the manager.
It went something like this if I remember correctly:
xx,99 no discount possible, lowest price possible
xx,97 max 5% discount possible
xx,95 max 10% discount possible
xx,93 15% or more discount possible

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi group,

The Pre-Order section of Batteriser.com has been changed:



The shipping date is has been changed to a totally meaningless 30 days. 30 days from what?



Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[Galenbo]

Another one. I have a feeling they're going to do a Facebook "cleanse" any time now.
...

They can keep on deleting, at the risk bumping on someone who is really pissed off, and starts a facebook page like: "Batteriser ripped me off"

[Fungus]

Hi group,

The Pre-Order section of Batteriser.com has been changed:

Are they still taking orders? Uhuh.

[SL4P]

You know...
I took a look at the original Batteriser campaign on IGG, and while not excusing the crap that has come from Batteroo, they were only looking for $30K originally.  It was the gullible investors and backers that took the whole new level of Batteriser having to resort to questionable behaviour.

If they quietly returned the backer funds to IGG, then bend over like 'Probes' the monkey... the VC investors can do whatever they want.  It can't end well for Bob, but he didn't have the moral strength to stop the charade when it got out of hand.

[Fungus]

You know...
I took a look at the original Batteriser campaign on IGG, and while not excusing the crap that has come from Batteroo, they were only looking for $30K originally.  It was the gullible investors and backers that took the whole new level of Batteriser having to resort to questionable behaviour.

If they quietly returned the backer funds to IGG, then bend over like 'Probes' the monkey... the VC investors can do whatever they want.  It can't end well for Bob, but he didn't have the moral strength to stop the charade when it got out of hand.

Their GPS video has a link to the IndieGoGo campaign:

If the GPS video is a deliberate fraud then the IndieGoGo campaign is also a deliberate fraud (they're promoting the campaign using that video).

The GPS video is clearly fraudulent so let's not argue over the amount they were planning to steal...

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

I am sure that they set a small goal on IGG because:

1) They had already secured $1m for SK Telecom, although some of this $1m is 'in kind', meaning free rent, advice etc.

2) It sounds a lot better to say we were over subscribed by 10x on our original IGG campaign, rather setting the bar at $250K and saying we exceeded our goal by 1.2x

Additional backers joined the campaign after it was extended. This is why the number 1,316% funded.

The whole idea of the IGG was to create publicity.

I am sure that the Batteroo team does not have a long term plan to sell Batterisers, they want to sell the company.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[daqq]

Dave! They are onto ya! They know!

[Brumby]

They just keep throwing mud to divert suspicion away from themselves.  It's purely a defensive tactic - but it has sinister implications.  They run the risk of libel.

Then again, they may be actively whiteanting - just like the 'dislike' campaigns from Vietnam.  Who knows?

[rrinker]

 I really really want to see them at least make a few so that people can get their hands on one. It's one thing to intellectually know it's impossible to meet their claims, it's another to have the physical product and hook it up to test gear. Alas I fear there was never any intent to actually manufacturer and deliver a product here.

[EEVblog]

They just keep throwing mud to divert suspicion away from themselves.  It's purely a defensive tactic - but it has sinister implications.  They run the risk of libel.

If I really wanted to I could sue Bob right now for libel for stating to a national newspaper (and continually via their official Facebook page, and also their "fan page") that I am paid by Duracell.
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/batteriser-battery-life-extender-scam-or-saviour-20150915-gjmrql.html
And because I'm a public figure with a lot of reputation to lose, damages could be large. In fact, my reputation in the industry is my entire livelihood.
Bob is treading a very thin line with everything he does and says, he is being very foolish indeed.

[EEVblog]

I really really want to see them at least make a few so that people can get their hands on one. It's one thing to intellectually know it's impossible to meet their claims, it's another to have the physical product and hook it up to test gear.

They know very well the game is up the very instant they ship product. It will only take a day or two once shipping starts for the entire industry to know it's a complete crock, and a few weeks after that for there to be scores of controlled comparison tests on real products.
And ironically the very publications they chose to get them free marketing will now likely rip them to shreds once the data is in and bloggers post the results.
They did not count on the engineering community taking them to task, and it becoming the running joke of the entire industry. Oops.

[Halcyon]

Of course they won't focus on other bloggers who have busted them either, I'm the poster boy 

[pickle9000]

I really really want to see them at least make a few so that people can get their hands on one. It's one thing to intellectually know it's impossible to meet their claims, it's another to have the physical product and hook it up to test gear. Alas I fear there was never any intent to actually manufacturer and deliver a product here.

It is enough to criticise the technology without speculating about their intent. You can't know that.

The intent is financial.

[Fungus]

It is enough to criticise the technology without speculating about their intent. You can't know that.

I don't actually know what their goal is/was but I know it's fraudulent and I know it's about money.

[WN1X]

It's always about the money.

[rrinker]

 OK, perhaps they did intend to make and distribute 'something'. Maybe just go for the placebo effect. There really aren't too many options to consider here, given that it can't work as advertised. Yes, always about the money - either take it and run, or produce  and sell a non-working product. The tin foil hat version is that they deliberately made sure the name was similar to Energizer AND they showed Energizer brand batteries in their demos to make sure they would be sued which gives them the out without the obvious fraud.
 bah, I need more popcorn.

[drussell]

The tin foil hat version is that they deliberately made sure the name was similar to Energizer AND they showed Energizer brand batteries in their demos to make sure they would be sued which gives them the out without the obvious fraud.

Why bother in the first place, then?  That would make no sense...

No, they were planning on making money, otherwise they wouldn't have started this ridiculous venture in the first place.  I'm with those that think they were hoping to sell the whole concept and company to some sucker by whipping up a bunch of hoopla and making more money than they spent generating said hoopla.

It's just not likely to work out that way for them.... 

[WN1X]

No, they were planning on making money, otherwise they wouldn't have started this ridiculous venture in the first place.  I'm with those that think they were hoping to sell the whole concept and company to some sucker by whipping up a bunch of hoopla and making more money than they spent generating said hoopla.

Yes, they hoped to dump this turd of a product onto some unsuspecting buyer.

To quote Dave, "fail!" 

[Nerull]

They do have a lot of guts to promote their product with medicial / life support devices like "heart monitors" and "emergency equipment" 

Given how many devices say "This is NOT for use in life-saving medical equipment and may not be used in such." as a CYA measure, I'm amazed they'd make that claim. If you promote something for use in medical devices the FDA is going to want to have a chat with you. And if it ever fails...