EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[Stephan_T]

I especially liked the conclusion of the article:

www.smh.com.au
Both Dr Walker and Dr Vassallo instead suggested replacing a flat battery, or using good quality rechargeable batteries, as the best options.

Replacing a flat battery is kind of ovious, but rechargeable batteries are a much better solution of the problem than the Batteriser.

Let's look at the cutoff voltage issue in regards to rechargeables, as I allredy suggested here.

[LabSpokane]

I'm still laughing at the comparisons of the Batteriser to the marketing of fake boner pills. Well done, Hannah.

[Smokey]

I'm still laughing at the comparisons of the Batteriser to the marketing of fake boner pills. Well done, Hannah.

At least people scammed by Batteriser will just be out some money... Look at the side effects of ExtenZe....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExtenZe

[EEVblog]

I'm still laughing at the comparisons of the Batteriser to the marketing of fake boner pills. Well done, Hannah.

That was pretty funny! 

[Stephan_T]

Roohparvar went on to paraphrase Gandhi – "First they will ignore you; then they will laugh at you; then they will fight you; then you will win" – and his first punch in that perceived fight was to discredit Jones for having no formal electrical engineering qualifications, only a degree in performing arts from Australia's National Institute of Dramatic Arts.

Nobody obviously bothered to fact check that 
Heads up Dr Bob, I don't have a degree in performing arts from NIDA. It's in my linkedIn profile as a joke 

What kind of fact check do you expect? Didn't you yourself stated this as your own credentials on the information platform linkedIn? How are journalists supposed to know what is a joke and what not? If they find out, that your degree in performing arts from Australia's National Institute of Dramatic Arts is not for real, they might even accuse you of lying about your qualifications.
Be careful The Batteroooo lawyers have started to collect evidence.

[6581]

Perhaps I should add some other joke qualifications on there, any suggestions?

DMM in PCB Design

[LabSpokane]

Roohparvar went on to paraphrase Gandhi – "First they will ignore you; then they will laugh at you; then they will fight you; then you will win" – and his first punch in that perceived fight was to discredit Jones for having no formal electrical engineering qualifications, only a degree in performing arts from Australia's National Institute of Dramatic Arts.

Nobody obviously bothered to fact check that 
Heads up Dr Bob, I don't have a degree in performing arts from NIDA. It's in my linkedIn profile as a joke 

I am certain Hannah knows it's incorrect. I think she made a conscious decision to give Bob enough rope to hang himself. She really has to get credit for writing the best article on the subject thus far. It was far better than the EDN article. 

[Fsck]

Roohparvar went on to paraphrase Gandhi – "First they will ignore you; then they will laugh at you; then they will fight you; then you will win" – and his first punch in that perceived fight was to discredit Jones for having no formal electrical engineering qualifications, only a degree in performing arts from Australia's National Institute of Dramatic Arts.

Nobody obviously bothered to fact check that 
Heads up Dr Bob, I don't have a degree in performing arts from NIDA. It's in my linkedIn profile as a joke 

What kind of fact check do you expect? Didn't you yourself stated this as your own credentials on the information platform linkedIn? How are journalists supposed to know what is a joke and what not? If they find out, that your degree in performing arts from Australia's National Institute of Dramatic Arts is not for real, they might even accuse you of lying about your qualifications.
Be careful The Batteroooo lawyers have started to collect evidence.

typically, good reporting involves some sort of independent investigation from trusted sources and are typically corroborated against each other.
though I guess in the social media era, just randomly taking people at their word on the internet has become popular.

[EEVblog]

am certain Hannah knows it's incorrect.

Actually, it's not really her fault. It's reasonable to assume that a LinkedIn profile would be correct, and wouldn't have any jokes in it (or that it might be incomplete in terms of qualifications and some jobs).
Although she didn't contact me about that claim, just the one about being paid by Duracell. If she did ask I could have straitened that one out.

She really has to get credit for writing the best article on the subject thus far. It was far better than the EDN article. 

Yep, by far the best article so far.
I see EDN have a new follow-up article:
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/brians-brain/4440366/The-Batteriser--defenders-and-detractors
I have't read it all yet, but the intro nails it:

The bulk of the commenters' observations were skeptical of Batteroo and its pending product, and otherwise negative in tone. Some of the comments were from Batteroo itself; unfortunately, in my opinion, the company frequently chose to engage in personal attacks on the detractors themselves (their underlying motives, their backers, their technical competence, etc), versus focusing on addressing the issues raised.

[LabSpokane]

http://batteriser.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Batteriser_Report_FCC.pdf

 

There just are not enough  's to describe this. Yup, the AA version of the Batteriser "passed" FCC compliance testing ...

... at a fixed current draw of 1.5 mA.

Is this a joke?!  One fixed current draw?  The Apple keyboard and trackpad draw 5-7mA in normal operation and over 50mA peak. The beloved "golf GPS" runs at least 100X of that. Could Batteroo be afraid it might not pass when actually pushing the converter at a realistic level?!

Per the FCC, the device must be tested AS IT WILL BE USED.  What device in all these claims of Batteroo idles along at a fixed 1.5mA!? 

[TheAmmoniacal]

http://batteriser.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Batteriser_Report_FCC.pdf

 

There just are not enough  's to describe this. Yup, the AA version of the Batteriser "passed" FCC compliance testing ...

... at a fixed current draw of 1.5 mA.

Is this a joke?!  One fixed current draw?  The Apple keyboard and trackpad draw 5-7mA in normal operation and over 50mA peak. The beloved "golf GPS" runs at least 100X of that. Could Batteroo be afraid it might not pass when actually pushing the converter at a realistic level?!

Per the FCC, the device must be tested AS IT WILL BE USED.  What device in all these claims of Batteroo idles along at a fixed 1.5mA!?

Safe to assume their switching frequency is 1.5 MHz?

[LabSpokane]

http://batteriser.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Batteriser_Report_FCC.pdf

 

There just are not enough  's to describe this. Yup, the AA version of the Batteriser "passed" FCC compliance testing ...

... at a fixed current draw of 1.5 mA.

Is this a joke?!  One fixed current draw?  The Apple keyboard and trackpad draw 5-7mA in normal operation and over 50mA peak. The beloved "golf GPS" runs at least 100X of that. Could Batteroo be afraid it might not pass when actually pushing the converter at a realistic level?!

Per the FCC, the device must be tested AS IT WILL BE USED.  What device in all these claims of Batteroo idles along at a fixed 1.5mA!?

Safe to assume their switching frequency is 1.5 MHz?

Oh no. Try for 900MHz. They are smack in the middle of the ISM band.

[Someone]

Ha ha ha! That's even better!
Now you can write a musical about it

Actually, it's not a complete fabrication, I did a short course at NIDA. They told me I was the 2nd worst actor they have ever seen.
Perhaps I should add some other joke qualifications on there, any suggestions?

NIDA is a rather exclusive and well regarded organisation, great choice to mention. If you want funny why not follow A J Rimmer BSc and list all the trivial qualifications you get as a child (in that case Bronze Swimming Certificate).

[LabSpokane]

The test fixture.

[TheAmmoniacal]

I see it has a lot going on around 900 MHz, but "Highest Intentionally Generated Frequency is 1.5MHz". Someone else explain this?

[EEVblog]

Per the FCC, the device must be tested AS IT WILL BE USED.  What device in all these claims of Batteroo idles along at a fixed 1.5mA!?

2.25mW 
Funny how they can show a FCC report, and a UL "report", but still can't show a single characteristic curve, nor provide any real performance data.

Also:

Highest intentional generated frequency is 1.5MHz

So looks like we have an official upper limit on the switching frequency used.

[EEVblog]

I see it has a lot going on around 900 MHz, but "Highest Intentionally Generated Frequency is 1.5MHz". Someone else explain this?

I presume that means the fundamental switching frequency of the converter, not including harmonics.
IIRC Bob (or someone) has mentioned 1.5MHz switching before?

[Barny]

@LabSpokane:
Is there a pice of paper below the clip?
Could it be that the Butteriser have some little short circuit issues? 

And anybody knews that you have to solder some resistors on your new battery bevore you install it 

[EEVblog]

NIDA is a rather exclusive and well regarded organisation

Yes indeed. Many try and and don't make it in each year, let alone finish. If I really was a graduate of NIDA's full course I'd be a hell of a lot better on camera than I am, by maybe 10 orders of magnitude!

[Chipguy]

Excerpt from the article

With 280,000 subscribers to the EEVblog YouTube channel, Batteroo is none too pleased at the negative attention, and told Fairfax Media its legal team was "looking at" potential action against Jones.

Looking into legal action sounds like a silly joke but it won't be the first completely ludercrous lawsuit initiated by a tech company (or so called tech company).
If they really do that (what I still doubt) I am going to up the Patreon support because fighting it off does not come for free. That won't be hard at all.

[f4eru]

I still think that every EE, and EE enthousiast should be in the Who's Who

Then open one for EE's )

[joseph.anand]

As if a bunch of startup guys can outdo the big hitters who've been perfecting boost converters for 50+ years? 

Hmm.. This is actually plausible. Startup guys can outdo the big hitters sometimes provided they do things right.

[f4eru]

Actually, it's not a complete fabrication, I did a short course at NIDA. They told me I was the 2nd worst actor they have ever seen.
Perhaps I should add some other joke qualifications on there, any suggestions?

I propose : Master degree in scam debunking

[Wytnucls]

Most converters intended for AA batteries operate either at 1MHz or 2MHz with some fluctuations on either side. A max of 1.5MHz would point to a 1MHz converter. The best ones available, that fit on top of a AA/AAA battery, don't output much more than 300mA @ 1.5V input, reducing to about 25mA @ 0.5V lowest input voltage.
Their claim of having engineered a small homebrew converter IC with a 1.5A output is ludicrous. As usual, no concrete proof of performance is presented.

A 5x improvement on the best IC technology, with high efficiency over a wide current range, and an implied 3A rating for a tiny 4.7uH inductor only make sense at Batteroo, Inc.

Batteroo's standards of electronics engineering:





This is what it takes to make a decent DC to DC converter:

[AmmoJammo]

1.5ma....

Surely they're having a laugh now!