EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[EEVblog]

Lets also have a look at the Popular Forum Owner who called these kind of guys "highly respected journalists" and shut down critical forum members who dared to question the existence of a "prototype" these "highly respected journalists" claimed to have seen as the only ones in the world at that time.

IIRC, you've been warned about continually harping on about this before. Let it go.

[drussell]

I expect the (US) SEC would be interested if they're not already

You're not buying stock in Batteroo, why would the SEC be involved?

[Godzil]

Since it all went quiet on the book of face and IGG the marketing droids have been showing re-runs of old image on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/batteriser.official/

I just had a look at Facebook to see if what I just said was still true, and found this little gem from June 9th.

We receive word from our factory tomorrow with all the information we need to announce the shipping dates. Expect an Indiegogo update soon!

It was a big paper (probably an A0 sheet) with "WORD" written on it?....

 

[Halcyon]

It was a big paper (probably an A0 sheet) with "WORD" written on it?....

 

Maybe someone from Roohparvar's IT "team" is coming to install Microsoft Word on his machine?? He just has to wait for the media to arrive from the factory/warehouse.

[Delta]

https://youtu.be/MZjAantupsA

[ez24]

We receive word from our factory tomorrow with all the information we need to announce the shipping dates. Expect an Indiegogo update soon!

My theory is that they are waiting for everyone to die off.  I think people on the "what to do when you die" topic need to put their purchases in their will and see if their heirs can collect 50 years from now.  My guess is in 50 years the shipping date will be "soon".

[Brumby]

My guess is in 50 years the shipping date will be "soon".

I feel you are being rather generous - and far too optimistic.

IMHO, in 50 years we'll have had more hollow promises from at least dozen dodgy deal desperados.

[Muttley Snickers]

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I was looking forward to the 2032 version, I won't coin that phrase ever again.   

[Godzil]

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I was looking forward to the 2032 version, I won't coin that phrase ever again.   

You have coined them!

[Brumby]

Maybe we will have a resolution to this matter in 2032.  It's just another 16 years.

[SL4P]

WIKIPEDIA: Just in case anyone else is interested to add/comment.
I added a paragraph on Wikipedia (quoted below) on Batteriser's Wikipedia page, but it was reverted by another member 'Ronz'.

I have no reason to suspect Ronz is affiliated with Batteriser, but it makes me question the objectivity of Wikipedia and their editors.

May 2016 - No independently verified tests have been offered to support any of the battery life benefits claimed for the product.  No products have been shipped to investors/backers - hence there is no evidence the Batteriser exists or works as claimed.

[Fungus]

it makes me question the objectivity of Wikipedia and their editors.

Wikipedia editors can't possibly monitor every page 24/7.

You can help them out by reporting 'Ronz' to the Wiki Police. What he's doing is strictly against the rules.

[Howardlong]

WIKIPEDIA: Just in case anyone else is interested to add/comment.
I added a paragraph on Wikipedia (quoted below) on Batteriser's Wikipedia page, but it was reverted by another member 'Ronz'.

I have no reason to suspect Ronz is affiliated with Batteriser, but it makes me question the objectivity of Wikipedia and their editors.

May 2016 - No independently verified tests have been offered to support any of the battery life benefits claimed for the product.  No products have been shipped to investors/backers - hence there is no evidence the Batteriser exists or works as claimed.

To be honest with you, unless you have an awful lot of time on your hands, I'd be wary of editing anything on Wikipedia that seems to attract uber pedants and individuals with apparently unexplained hidden agendas. Wikipedia user Ronz has spent many days and weeks of their life together with another user who tried to anonymise themselves (and who affected content by voting multiple times using anonymous logins) systematically vandelising other Wikipedia pages with connections to this forum. Probably not a battle worth fighting and getting wound up about IMHO.

[SL4P]

Cheers to that!    Done, a query was raised with wiki police.
Not really wanting to get worked up, just interested in having fraudsters and bullies 'called out'!

Maybe someone else wants to do something similar - keep the torch turned on both teams.

EDIT:  A very prompt reply from Wikipedia, that included this para...

The verifiability policy states: "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is
verifiability, not truth — that is, whether readers are able to check that
material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source,
not whether we think it is true."

Paraphrased... "never let the truth get in the way of a good story."

[Delta]

Paraphrased... "never let the truth get in the way of a good story."

I think "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove", is more appropriate for Wikipedia.  It's fair enough really.

We need that journo from the Sydney Morning Herald (I think she was the only one to be even sceptical of the BatterBros ridiculous claims) to do a follow-up article, thus giving a reliable source to reference.

[EEVblog]

WIKIPEDIA: Just in case anyone else is interested to add/comment.
I added a paragraph on Wikipedia (quoted below) on Batteriser's Wikipedia page, but it was reverted by another member 'Ronz'.
I have no reason to suspect Ronz is affiliated with Batteriser, but it makes me question the objectivity of Wikipedia and their editors.

Ronz is one of at least two people who are hell bent on getting my Wikipedia page removed.
So obsessed that my Talk page is bigger than Donald Trumps!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:David_L._Jones
The other is of course a famous unnamed banned individual who caused no end of trouble on this forum and will not be spoken of again.

May 2016 - No independently verified tests have been offered to support any of the battery life benefits claimed for the product.  No products have been shipped to investors/backers - hence there is no evidence the Batteriser exists or works as claimed.

[/quote]

That last sentence is demonstrably untrue. The product as a prototype exists.

[SeanB]

WIKIPEDIA: Just in case anyone else is interested to add/comment.
I added a paragraph on Wikipedia (quoted below) on Batteriser's Wikipedia page, but it was reverted by another member 'Ronz'.
I have no reason to suspect Ronz is affiliated with Batteriser, but it makes me question the objectivity of Wikipedia and their editors.

Ronz is one of at least two people who are hell bent on getting my Wikipedia page removed.
So obsessed that my Talk page is bigger than Donald Trumps!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:David_L._Jones
The other is of course a famous unnamed banned individual who caused no end of trouble on this forum and will not be spoken of again.

May 2016 - No independently verified tests have been offered to support any of the battery life benefits claimed for the product.  No products have been shipped to investors/backers - hence there is no evidence the Batteriser exists or works as claimed.

That last sentence is demonstrably untrue. The product as a prototype exists.
[/quote]

Isn't fame nice Dave

If you ran as US president ( aside from the minor thing of birth and being on a watch list, like most of the rest of the planet) you probably would get a good chunk of the vote, as your followers are more likely to get off the couch and vote for you.

[SL4P]

mea culpa...
It doesn't exist as a product.
Point taken, Batteriser is a roaring success, and the Butt Bros are in line for a Nobble Prize.

[meeder]

mea culpa...
It doesn't exist as a product.
Point taken, Batteriser is a roaring success, and the Butt Bros are in line for a Nobble Prize.

That's not what Dave says. Batteroo has shown a prototype and I have no doubt that they could come up with something that works it is just impossible to get the performance they claim.

[EEVblog]

That's not what Dave says. Batteroo has shown a prototype and I have no doubt that they could come up with something that works it is just impossible to get the performance they claim.

Let's be real about this.
Batteroo could have and would have shipped this ages ago if no one had kicked up a technical stink about it.
It would have been a piss-poor product that didn't get close to their claims, but that wouldn't have mattered because the placebo effect and customer confirmation bias would have kicked in and they'd have countless non-technical customs giving it positive reviews.

It's because they have been called out on their BS claims that there has been delay after delay, because they have no idea how to ship anything now that wouldn't get torn to shreads in the technical media now that they are on the radar. Not that they can, they know very well that anything they ship won't come close to their claims.
Even if they were technically incompetent (through lack of effort or whatever, because these are smart guys) or delusional enough to think it could have worked before, so much data has been shown to them that blows it out the water, and they are smart enough to know that now. The game is up.

[SL4P]

...they are smart enough to know that now. The game is up.

Not enough for Wikipedia.

[EEVblog]

...they are smart enough to know that now. The game is up.

Not enough for Wikipedia.

I just took a look at the Wikipedia page which I have not seen for a long time.
Chnages I'd make:
- The first paragraph "The Batteriser has received both positive and negative reviews". There of course have been no reviews of the actual product.

Another source of contention surrounds the brownout voltages for battery-operated devices. David L. Jones in his EEV Blog used a programmable power supply to determine that nearly all devices function in some respect until around 1.1V, or roughly 80% of a battery's life due to the non-linear discharge cycles of batteries. This stands in contrast to Batteriser's claim that using a Batteriser will unlock the remaining 80% of power (from 1.3V downwards).[9] Batteriser has counter-argued that the bench power supply test is flawed, because of the definitions used by Jones to define device functionality, the inherent differences between power supplies and batteries on the basis of Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR), and different measures of voltage (confusion between open circuit voltage and closed circuit voltage).[12][13]

I of course did a follow-up video on this explaining why their argument has little to no merit.

David Jones on EEV Blog raised the concern that because the Batteriser acts as a ground for the boost converter circuit, any nick in the insulation might result in a direct short, and potentially a fire.[16]

They essentially acknowledged this and fixed it with a coating.

Due to the anonymous nature of the attacks, it is currently unknown who was responsible. Batteroo has received a lot of criticism due to circumstantial evidence, but suspicion is present that Batteroo's competitors attempted to generate bad publicity for the product.

Batteroo don't have any competitors.

[Galenbo]

Batteroo has shown a prototype and I have no doubt that they could come up with something that works it is just impossible to get the performance they claim.

If they even ever made a prototype, it had nothing to do with the specs and performance they claimed.
Like promising a speedboat and then showing the prototype that matches the flintstones.

[Galenbo]

..., but it makes me question the objectivity of Wikipedia and their editors.

there is a large groupthink problem on Wikipedia, witch also occurs on many forums, this one being one of the exceptions that performs better.

I once was a far witness of an accident on a festival, the guy was dead.
I added that to the wiki page of the festival, must have been 40 seconds online I think.
Problem is the organisation was warned about those visitor's behavour, and did nothing. That makes them guilty of ignoring, and guilty of covering up.

 

[Godzil]

Wikipedia biggest issue is "trust references not truth"

Unless they change that behaviour you can't read any technical articles without a lot of doubt.
I'm working on documenting an old device, and the Wikipedia page is full of errors, I corrected them with explanation in the edit comment,to get them reverted a few minutes later because "no references so it's not valid".

Bummers.. (There were issues like saying 512Kbyte instead of when it's in kbit for memory)

The best part is that a stupid thing I corrected was "referenced" to an online magazine article that was claiming to use data from Wikipedia..., uhhhhh? That's pretty handy isn't it? (And it was about some pretty stupid things.)

After that incident I've completely lost trust in Wikipedia, that's just a lair of trolls.