Do this with these Rigol + Migsig together. Alone they can not, not even close and together if you have purchased both because can get with same price as one Siglent.Zooming out is much more useful feature. But the Siglent can't do that. The Anritsu network analyser I bought for $400 OTOH can also tell me the equivalent circuit parameters to actually model the crystal.
Do this with these Rigol + Migsig together. Alone they can not, not even close and together if you have purchased both because can get with same price as one Siglent.Zooming out is much more useful feature. But the Siglent can't do that. The Anritsu network analyser I bought for $400 OTOH can also tell me the equivalent circuit parameters to actually model the crystal.
Are you serious?
You cannot go more than 2 weeks without "I need zoom out, please let me have zoom out... Seriously, man just one zoom out please.. I need it.."
And whats up with " Well, peasants should buy VNA if they want to measure something"...
There is need for good frequency resolution in FRA apart from crystals. Crystal is just used to to show good resolution and dynamic range...
If you need to measure frequency responses then buy the NanoVNA. Much more useful than FRA on an oscilloscope. Goes from 10kHz to 1.5GHz which a large dynamic range for about $100. The NanoVNA really is a nice bit of kit to have.
Are you serious?
Again with this... You have problems.. Really...
You cannot go more than 2 weeks without "I need zoom out, please let me have zoom out... Seriously, man just one zoom out please.. I need it.."
And no, it is marginally useful thing very few use on daily basis.
And whats up with " Well, peasants should buy VNA if they want to measure something"...
There is need for good frequency resolution in FRA apart from crystals. Crystal is just used to to show good resolution and dynamic range...
What is this issue about zooming out all about? My SDS2104X Plus is on its way, so I’m not familiar with it, but the way I understand things is one could capture a waveform over a longer time domain - i.e. zoomed out - and then zoom in to see the details. In other words, the scope captures only what’s on the screen, and not beyond. What’s the problem with this approach?
What is this issue about zooming out all about? My SDS2104X Plus is on its way, so I’m not familiar with it, but the way I understand things is one could capture a waveform over a longer time domain - i.e. zoomed out - and then zoom in to see the details. In other words, the scope captures only what’s on the screen, and not beyond. What’s the problem with this approach?Are you serious?
Again with this... You have problems.. Really...
You cannot go more than 2 weeks without "I need zoom out, please let me have zoom out... Seriously, man just one zoom out please.. I need it.."
And no, it is marginally useful thing very few use on daily basis.
And whats up with " Well, peasants should buy VNA if they want to measure something"...
There is need for good frequency resolution in FRA apart from crystals. Crystal is just used to to show good resolution and dynamic range...
At one point we literally counted steps and clicks and proved his way is more work and setup.
It hinders some workflows. Here is the long thread about it (with several people not understanding the problem at all and causing lots of noise nevertheless):
Most scopes can zoom out so there probably is a good reason to do so. Dave tested many oscilloscopes and found out Siglent is the one of the two brands (the other is Lecroy which is more geared towards signal analysis anyway) which can't:
At one point we literally counted steps and clicks and proved his way is more work and setup.No you didn't! It is clear you work on completely different measurement tasks compared to me. That is totally fine. Again, respect other people's priorities! Bashing or even crusading against (yes, you got to that point!) other people's opinions just reflects badly onto yourself. You can't even let a tongue in cheek comment go -my response to rf-loop bringing up FRA for the umpteenth time while it is not even the subject-. Just let it rest.
Zooming out is much more useful feature. But the Siglent can't do that very basic operation.
Zooming out is much more useful feature. But the Siglent can't do that very basic operation.
Yep. If I count the number of Bode plots I've done in my life vs. the number of times I've zoomed out on captured data, the zoom wins.
Siglents don't do that most basic thing.
Well, as I said, that is more of a testament of your (wrong?) scoping technique
Well, as I said, that is more of a testament of your (wrong?) scoping technique
I'm holding it wrong?
Do this with these Rigol + Migsig together.
Rigol has bode plot all by itself:
https://int.rigol.com/products/oscillosopes/mso5000.html
The vertical grid is evenly spaced, isn't it? How comes that we get 5 dB/div in the bottom row, then 4 dB /div above
Thanks for the helpful info above.
Just to try to tie it off, roughly what difference (quantitatively in terms of mV, uV, or % and or/qualitatively) would you expect when measuring ~1mVRMS ripple with a 20MHz bandwidth filter assuming good probing technique (and really measuring the PS's performance rather than noise in the environment) when comparing a Rigol 2000 vs a Rigol 1000, and a Rigol 2000 vs a Siglent 2k Plus? (Is the Rigol 2k front end going to have some clear advantage over the other two for such a measurement, or are the results going to be barely noticeable?)
1mV P-P, 138uV AC RMS signal fed into scope (just an AWG signal that resembles superficially something you might see on the switcher output):
Keysight MSOX3104T with 20MHz bandlimit (50Ohm, so lower noise than with 1Meg input) is a good approximation of MSO5000. It has a bit lower noise but has same software magnified 5mV/div for 1mv/div. So MSO5000 would be like this, and slightly worse..
Note errors in measurements in Keysight. Which otherwise has excellent measurement implementation.
And Keysight couldn't get stable trigger. Snapshots were single, manual force triggered.
And a Micsig STO1104E ... Real 1mV/div, less than 65 uV AC RMS noise (20 MHz bandlimited). Triggering and all...
And on a scope with real 500uV/div it would be even better than on Micsig. Trust me on that. I tried. It is amazing how clean it looked.
It hinders some workflows. Here is the long thread about it (with several people not understanding the problem at all and causing lots of noise nevertheless):
Most scopes can zoom out so there probably is a good reason to do so. Dave tested many oscilloscopes and found out Siglent is the one of the two brands (the other is Lecroy which is more geared towards signal analysis anyway) which can't:
I hinders your some of your workflows... Thanks for sharing.. For 3432nd time..
So excuse me if I find your parroting of hate to something that is different from what you think it should be, quite tiresome.
Zooming out is much more useful feature. But the Siglent can't do that very basic operation.
Yep. If I count the number of Bode plots I've done in my life vs. the number of times I've zoomed out on captured data, the zoom wins.
Siglents don't do that most basic thing.
Well, as I said, that is more of a testament of your (wrong?) scoping technique and the fact that you don't do anything that would need FRA.
That excludes all kinds of audio filters, tone controls, audio crossovers, active and passive, control loops that include anything that works on negative feedback principle (be it PID controllers, power supplies) etc etc... Also any circuit that uses opamps or any kind of amplifier that you would want to check gain/phase for any reason (stability or simply to verify specs..). You can also check IF parts of the radios (455kHz and 10,7MHz), check filters etc... Test small signal and audio transformers characteristics...
It can also be used to test CMRR and PSRR (with adequate accessories). List is huge..
It hinders some workflows. Here is the long thread about it (with several people not understanding the problem at all and causing lots of noise nevertheless):
Most scopes can zoom out so there probably is a good reason to do so. Dave tested many oscilloscopes and found out Siglent is the one of the two brands (the other is Lecroy which is more geared towards signal analysis anyway) which can't:
I hinders your some of your workflows... Thanks for sharing.. For 3432nd time..
So excuse me if I find your parroting of hate to something that is different from what you think it should be, quite tiresome.Geez... Let's not count the number of times you brought up the R&S scopes not being able to search on digital decoding. It is likely you brought that up more often than I brought up zooming out. To me search is not a very important feature (I use the trigger setup to filter unwanted messages which then also makes a search futile because the search options usually aren't more elaborate than the trigger settings) but I'm not going to crusade or ridicule you about it.
Zooming out is much more useful feature. But the Siglent can't do that very basic operation.
Yep. If I count the number of Bode plots I've done in my life vs. the number of times I've zoomed out on captured data, the zoom wins.
Siglents don't do that most basic thing.
Well, as I said, that is more of a testament of your (wrong?) scoping technique and the fact that you don't do anything that would need FRA.
That excludes all kinds of audio filters, tone controls, audio crossovers, active and passive, control loops that include anything that works on negative feedback principle (be it PID controllers, power supplies) etc etc... Also any circuit that uses opamps or any kind of amplifier that you would want to check gain/phase for any reason (stability or simply to verify specs..). You can also check IF parts of the radios (455kHz and 10,7MHz), check filters etc... Test small signal and audio transformers characteristics...
It can also be used to test CMRR and PSRR (with adequate accessories). List is huge..People for which such measurements are important usually have a VNA and LCR meter. FRA gets you a crude amplitude / phase graph which you can also get from sweeping a function generator. Add some math and you can use the cursors to read magnitude in dB(m/V/uV) and phase if you like. FRA is nice but it runs out of steam quickly. For example if you want to know impedances, Q factor, equivalent component values (RL / RC), etc then a VNA or LCR meter becomes a better choice quickly.
Well, my Anritsu network analyser works from 10Hz and has switcheable 1MOhm / 50 Ohm inputs so it isn't limited to 50 Ohm and 10Hz is very near DC.
Well, my Anritsu network analyser works from 10Hz and has switcheable 1MOhm / 50 Ohm inputs so it isn't limited to 50 Ohm and 10Hz is very near DC.Yes that is very good. What model exactly is that?