Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[tautech]

Only issue I have is that when I select the option screen the scope hangs and can only be restarted by pressing the power button for 5 second.

Mine has the same problem.

If I roll back to 1.3.7R5 then the option screen works again.

Same here.

Note that what it's killing is the UI.  The traces continue to be updated.

No such issues here with the last unit in stock just upgraded. 

Be aware a hard OFF will not save any previous settings and instead reboot to some previous settings so my best advice after FW upgrades is to do a 2nd reboot for the OS to properly sort itself out.

[kcbrown]

No such issues here with the last unit in stock just upgraded. 

It's because the stock units have temporary licenses for at least some things (I edited my message to describe what I've found).

Be aware a hard OFF will not save any previous settings and instead reboot to some previous settings so my best advice after FW upgrades is to do a 2nd reboot for the OS to properly sort itself out.

That makes no difference here.  I did both a security erase and a factory default restore.  None of that made any difference.  This is a real bug, apparently.  Fortunately, it's not the end of the world.  As far as I know, Siglent doesn't sell some of the options that are actually available on the scope, so it's not entirely surprising that this bug could find its way into the new firmware.

Just to be clear, the bug is that if you have all of the non-bandwidth options installed, the attempt to access the "options" screen will hang the UI solid.   Similarly, installing the last non-bandwidth option via SCPI will hang the scope right then and there.

[TheDefpom]

I just upgraded my unit, I am pretty sure that I didn't have a couple of the options enabled as I never expected to use them, unfortunately I don't remember which options they were, it was probably MANCH and SENT the were not enabled, but I could be wrong.

Upon upgrading (after its first auto reboot) I went to the options page and all options were enabled and it didn't hang, I rebooted it again in case it is something to do with a subsequent boot up, it was fine.

I noticed there is a password protected "Developer Options" menu on that screen too... I didn't notice that before.

So far for me it appears to be fine, but then I haven't actually tried using the scope since the update.

[tautech]

I just upgraded my unit, I am pretty sure that I didn't have a couple of the options enabled as I never expected to use them, unfortunately I don't remember which options they were, it was probably MANCH and SENT the were not enabled, but I could be wrong.

Upon upgrading (after its first auto reboot) I went to the options page and all options were enabled and it didn't hang, I rebooted it again in case it is something to do with a subsequent boot up, it was fine.

I noticed there is a password protected "Developer Options" menu on that screen too... I didn't notice that before.

So far for me it appears to be fine, but then I haven't actually tried using the scope since the update.

You're not.
Manch, Sent and MSO are not part of the Oceania free options package.
Developer Options is just a rename of the previous Debug menu.

[tautech]

No such issues here with the last unit in stock just upgraded. 

It's because the stock units have temporary licenses for at least some things (I edited my message to describe what I've found).

Be aware a hard OFF will not save any previous settings and instead reboot to some previous settings so my best advice after FW upgrades is to do a 2nd reboot for the OS to properly sort itself out.

That makes no difference here.  I did both a security erase and a factory default restore.  None of that made any difference.  This is a real bug, apparently.  Fortunately, it's not the end of the world.

Reinstalling the FW is worth a try.

As far as I know, Siglent doesn't sell some of the options that are actually available on the scope, so it's not entirely surprising that this bug could find its way into the new firmware.

The full option list is here:
https://int.siglent.com/products-ware/sds2000xp/#navs

[kcbrown]

Reinstalling the FW is worth a try.

I did try that, but to no avail, unfortunately.

The full option list is here:
https://int.siglent.com/products-ware/sds2000xp/#navs

Here's the list of non-bandwidth options from that page (in the order they appear on the page):

- CANFD
- FlexRay
- 1553B
- I2S
- PA
- 16LA
- SENT
- FG
- Manch


Here's the list I have on my scope (in the order they are listed on the "options" screen):

- FG
- 16LA
- FlexRay
- CANFD
- I2S
- 1553B
- PA
- SENT
- Manch


You can see they're a match, save for the ordering.

That doesn't change the nature of the bug, obviously.  If I have all of those options permanently enabled, the attempt to get to the "options" screen will lock the UI solid.  If I delete the license from one or more of them (so far I've only tried it with Manch and SENT), the "options" screen works fine.

It does this in the face of a security erase and a restore to factory defaults.  It does this in the face of multiple upgrades and downgrades. It does it in the face of firmware reinstall.   It appears to be a bona-fide bug.

One other thing: if you add the final license to the scope via the UI, it'll hang right then and there.  And if you're connected to the scope via SCPI when you do that, the scope will close your SCPI connection immediately and refuse all other connections to it.  Additionally, it killed the entire scope under those conditions: the trace didn't update either. 
 
It's a really interesting bug.  Should be trivial to reproduce: just add licenses for every non-bandwidth option.  The scope will hang when you add the last one, whether it's through the UI or through SCPI.

You have to power cycle the scope and then go in via SCPI and remove one of the licenses for the options page to start working.  My scope is absolutely consistent in its behavior here, irrespective of everything else I've tried.

[TheDefpom]

My scope didn't exhibit this behaviour after the update, it worked fine, differences that may be worth investigating:

I only had 1 channel enabled when I did the firmware update, and afterwards I tried turning them all on and going to the options screen, still worked fine.

Like I mentioned, after doing the firmware update options that I was sure I didn't have installed, were then set to permanent licences, maybe that is something to do with it, does this update install those licences and if you already had them for whatever reason maybe that is causing a conflict there between licence codes that may be hanging around in the background system files?

[kcbrown]

My scope didn't exhibit this behaviour after the update, it worked fine, differences that may be worth investigating:

I only had 1 channel enabled when I did the firmware update, and afterwards I tried turning them all on and going to the options screen, still worked fine.

Hmm...I didn't try turning on all the channels first.  I can give that a shot.  Given the fact that making the last option permanent seems to lock up the scope right then and there, I'm skeptical that the number of channels will make a difference.  But I'll be happy to try it anyway.

EDIT: Tried it, made no difference.

Like I mentioned, after doing the firmware update options that I was sure I didn't have installed, were then set to permanent licences, maybe that is something to do with it, does this update install those licences and if you already had them for whatever reason maybe that is causing a conflict there between licence codes that may be hanging around in the background system files?

Well, I can disable all licenses, then attempt the upgrade, then reenable all the licenses.  But if there's some sort of permanent background system file that's involved, that might not do anything to it.  And what I can tell you is that upgrading with one of the licenses uninstalled and then reinstalling it afterwards yields the same behavior (it hangs it solid right then and there).

EDIT: Tried this too, and got the same result.


So right now, you have no licenses that are not permanent at all?  Because having only one is enough to avoid the bug.

If you have absolutely all non-bandwidth licenses installed and don't encounter this bug, then there must be some other weird trigger that causes it.

All I can say is that I'm not surprised I'm encountering it because, you know, that's just how my luck usually goes.       

[tubularnut]

I have all options permanent, including bandwidth upgrades, and no hang is experienced on any menus around the options screen.

(I'm not saying there isn't a bug, just that it is fine on mine)

[kcbrown]

I have all options permanent, including bandwidth upgrades, and no hang is experienced on any menus around the options screen.

(I'm not saying there isn't a bug, just that it is fine on mine)

Hmm...maybe the issue happens when you don't have all the bandwidth upgrades installed?  I've left the bandwidth stuff alone up until now.  I'm awfully tempted to try installing that to see if it's what makes the difference.

@TheDefPom, do you have all of the bandwidth upgrades installed on yours?

[tubularnut]

When I brought mine, it came with most options enabled (part of promotion) , and I only needed to do bandwidth upgrade as I recall.

Maybe the 'pre-enabled' is the difference, or could be the bandwidth options as you suggested?

[tautech]

I have all options permanent, including bandwidth upgrades, and no hang is experienced on any menus around the options screen.

(I'm not saying there isn't a bug, just that it is fine on mine)

Hmm...maybe the issue happens when you don't have all the bandwidth upgrades installed?  I've left the bandwidth stuff alone up until now.  I'm awfully tempted to try installing that to see if it's what makes the difference.

@TheDefPom, do you have all of the bandwidth upgrades installed on yours?

For sure he has as he recently got a pair of 500 MHz probes from us.

[AlexDavidson]

Just upgraded, all options still enabled, no problems.

[tv84]

Well, I can disable all licenses

How do you do this? I think the problem is right here.

[kcbrown]

Well, I can disable all licenses

How do you do this? I think the problem is right here.

There's a command you can use to uninstall each individual license.  When you do that, it reverts the feature back to temporary status.  Nothing actually removes the feature's availability from the scope entirely -- installing the license again will re-activate the feature.

In any case, I already tried that and it had no effect.  To wit, I reverted back to 1.3.7R5, then deleted all the licenses individually (so at this point, all features were temporary), then upgraded, and then re-installed all the licenses.  Installing the last license hung the scope, and from that point accessing the "options" page also hung the scope.  Deleting the license for one of the features (I used MANC in this case) made the issue disappear, and the "options" page was once again accessible.

But note that I did this only after experiencing the issue in the first place.  I've never removed any licenses until after I experienced the issue in the first place.  So there's no way that the license removal caused the issue.  The issue preceded that.

[kcbrown]

LOL, well, I suppose if you're going to enable options on the scope, you may as well go all the way!

I enabled the 500 MHz option on the scope and then reinstalled the license for MANC (the only one that was temporary), and now the options page works just fine.

How incredibly amusing.

Gee, I guess I'm just stuck with a 500 MHz scope if I'm to have a working options page.  Whatever is a GAS afflicted person to do???   

[tv84]

Previously you hadn't put the 500M option?

[Orange]

Well, I can disable all licenses

How do you do this? I think the problem is right here.

Obviously you won't get the answer from kcbrown, so here goes

Removing a license on the SDS2000X+ can be done by

LIC:DEL MANC

[kcbrown]

Previously you hadn't put the 500M option?

Nope.  Apparently that makes a big difference.  It's why I was careful to specify "non-bandwidth options".  I was reluctant to mess with the bandwidth options on my scope, but it's clear that it's involved.

It's apparently possible to revert to the lower bandwidths at will.  So for those of you who are interested in reproducing the issue, you might be able to do so simply by reverting to a lower bandwidth.  I haven't tried that yet.

In my case, my scope was set up with its original 100 MHz bandwidth at the time of reproduction.  I don't know if the issue is specific to that bandwidth or if it'll show itself in the presence of other bandwidth configurations.  Obviously it doesn't show itself at all if you've configured the scope for 500 MHz.

[kcbrown]

Well, I can disable all licenses

How do you do this? I think the problem is right here.

Obviously you won't get the answer from kcbrown, so here goes

I had been instructed to be careful about revealing such things, which is why I didn't. 

[kcbrown]

Further testing reveals that the issue occurs when your scope's licensed bandwidth is less than 500 MHz and you have all non-bandwidth option licenses installed.

[blurpy]

I've been curious of what's under the heatsinks we could see in Dave's teardown, and I see some hints of it being the following:

• Display FPGA: Xilinx Zynq-7000 XC7Z020 (7z020clg484)
• MSO FPGA:  Xilinx Spartan 6 LX16 XC6SLX16-FTG256
• Acquisition FPGA: 2x Xilinx Spartan 6 LX45 XC6SLX45-FGG676
• ADC: Texas Instruments ADC08D1020 or MXT2001

I have not been able to verify the actual ADC used so far, as it seems to support both. It could be that both are used in different circumstances. Has anyone been able to find a way to identify the actual chip (without taking off the heatsink)?

[tv84]

I think i've clarified that in this thread. The IDs that we extract from the FW bitstreams tell it very clearly. Except the ADC.

[blurpy]

Yep, I found it in the bitstreams. Couldn't see these details posted anywhere, but my mistake if it's duplicated.

[tv84]

Yep, I found it in the bitstreams. Couldn't see these details posted anywhere, but my mistake if it's duplicated.

  You did well. Maybe it is my mistake... age catches up quickly in Covid times. I used to parse those things but I think it stopped at the X-E...