Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.

[Martin72]

First play with the SPL2016 and the MSO function...
Question: Is there a possibility to deactivate D8 to D15 ?
I´ve set the height to 8Div (max) but still it´s a little bit tiny and the channels are not needed.
Can't find anything in the manual.

[kripton2035]

clic on the "channel" zone in the digital menu

[Martin72]

I read, I read, I read.....and always overlooked it...
Didn´t recognized this as an active button.
Thanks!
Now it looks good..

[Performa01]

When I went to a hardware exhibition, a salesperson of a certain company said "Even though the products of Chinese makers and ours are the same 12-bit, they cannot be compared, especially in terms of noise floor."
However, looking at the catalog, the noise floor of Siglent (SDS2000X HD) does not seem to be higher than that of Tektronix or LeCroy.
Should I trust the catalog?

I doubt that it has been a sales person from LeCroy, because otherwise we'd have to ask them if they've ever heard of the LeCroy WaveSurfer 4000 HD and what they think what this is and where it comes from.

In any other case it is the same old story again: the "A-brands" are just better in every regard. They have to be, they are much more expensive after all. Interestingly, we rarely ever get any proof of such claims - "A-brand" fanboys usually shy away from posting meaningful screenshots and measurements, whereas you can find plenty demonstrations for Siglents low noise frontends - where there isn't a difference between SDS2000X Plus and SDS2000X HD; the ADC resolution has nothing to do with frontend noise. And with regard to the granular noise of the ADC (and other benefits from 12 bits, such as accuracy), the advantage of 12 bits over just 8 has been demonstrated in numerous posts in this thread, some of them listed here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg4622245/#msg4622245

Siglent is a reputable manufacturer of test gear, so you can trust their catalog. I've checked and verified the specifications of most of their scopes and I only ever found cases, where specs were too pessimistic, never the other way round.

[Martin72]

so the 50 Ohms are mostly isolated by the 100 nF capacitor.

Maybe that´s the reason why the lecroy do not have a 50Ohm AC input.
@INLET1011:
Pics from our lecroy HDO6034A, same settings like before.

[Performa01]

This LeCroy has 350 MHz bandwidth. I have some old measurements for the SDS2504X HD, but the one closest to the conditions of these LeCroy examples is for nominal 500 MHz, so the noise should be higher.

The vertical sensitivity is 1 mV/div just like the LeCroy example, but timebase is only 100 µs/div for a lower frequency limit of 1 KHz, which will cut off a big part of the 1/f noise, hence lower the total noise.

All in all, the two measurements aren't perfectly comparable, but should still give a good hint on what to expect.

The actual bandwidth might differ from the specs, such as the 500 MHz of the SDS2504X HD, which are actually more like 600 MHz. Actually, it's best to use the 20 MHz bandwidth limiter. Every scope has this nowadays, it makes the results comparable and emphasizes the lower frequency noise, which is the strongest contributon in modern scopes with split path input buffer in the frontend.

I've used Standard Deviation (=AC-RMS) measurements instead of RMS, because I do not want to include the DC-offset error. Since the LeCroy doesn't seem to have any significant offset error, there shouldn't be a huge difference though.

The screenshot also shows the spectral distribution of the noise - and gives you an idea how clean the spectrum is in terms of spurious signals.

SDS2504X HD_Noise_1mV_500MHz_L

From 1 MHz to 600 MHz, the noise density is <3 nV/√Hz (at 350 Mhz it is even just ~2 nV/√Hz).

[Martin72]

Hi,

The vertical sensitivity is 1 mV/div just like the LeCroy example,

The lecroy do not have 500 microVolts, What I found interesting.
OK, lecroy does not have some things that seem to be important for other manufacturers for whatever reason.

[maxwell3e10]

Does the HD model work with Siglent's EasyScope software? I don't see it mentioned.

[Martin72]

Hi,

Can check this on the weekend.

[tautech]

Does the HD model work with Siglent's EasyScope software? I don't see it mentioned.

Should do, 1000X HD does however the inbuilt webrowser is somewhat more powerful for all these models.

[axantas]

I am aware, that this is my first post - besides some personal messages I did here. I am reading and learning a lot here. 
Initially working with a simple 2CH 150€ DSO - wich was quite ok for my analog restauration stuff I do - I started to become very curious. "What if...". So during a weak moment, i thought, I deserve the "if" in CAPS and BOLD...

So here is the if. I am aware about the overkill, but I must say, I immediately started to enjoy my new 2104X HD.

Now my first question: I know, how to add the options on older Siglent DSOs. This one is V2. May I ask for assistance, getting the options for this DSO?

[OwnMyEquipment]

I've joined the SDS2000X HD club. Recently started developing some open hardware ideas and needed to upgrade from the cheap PC-connected probes to debug some problems. Figured I'd empty my wallet on their most recent mid-range scope. 

I've also noticed a handful of you have been able to root and gain access to your device's filesystems. Any hints on how I could do that would be appreciated. I've been able to Telnet into their SCPI terminal, but haven't had luck beyond their basic commands. I've also scoured this thread for hints, but must've missed it. Or it went over my head. 

[Performa01]

There has been a debate about measuring a weak noise signal (from the vague description, I had to assume 600 µVpp) and have demonstrated how that would be perfectly possible with an SDS2000X Plus. Since the problem appeared to be very low frequency noise, I had to concentrate on that specifically.

I've also said that the SDS2000X HD would be an even better match for tasks like that. And as always, I like to back up my claims with some practical demonstration.

The SDS2000X HD is even better at analyzing weak signals, because it has:

•   Genuine 12 bit analog to digital converters for higher resolution and lower granular noise
•   Full speed hardware accelerated ERES and Average acquisition modes
•   Digital brick wall filters as math functions

First screenshot shows the noise level of the SDS2504X HD itself. An assumed spurious signal with 600 µVpp amplitude would be shown as -70,46 dBV. As can be seen, even at only 100 Hz the noise level of the DSO is just -110.9 dBV, which gives plenty of headroom.

SDS2504X HD_Noise_50_10ms_100kHz

In the previous test I haven't even gone all out to get the best possible result: neither did I take advantage on the long memory, nor did I use the digital brick wall filters in order to minimize aliasing.

So this time, I've used long memory (200 Mpts) in order to preserve a high primary sample rate of 1 GSa/s. Together with the 20 MHz bandwidth limiter, this gives a high protection against aliasing in the acquired raw data. Then I calculate an 800kHz low pass filter in one math channel and then the FFT on that.

I did not only want to show the noise floor but also a low level low frequency signal (100 µVrms = 283 µVpp @ 120 Hz) to demonstrate how it can be accurately measured. We can clearly see that signal in the time domain as well as its filtered version (math channel F2) with twice the amplitude at 500 µV/div.

This screenshot also demonstrates how to work around any problems coming from the axis labes interfering with markers at the very left of the screen. It's easy: just start at one division later (use an appropriate negative start frequency):

SDS2504X HD_Sig120Hz-80dBV_50_LP800kHz_20ms_90kHz

If you look at the table, you'll notice that the 120 Hz signal is accurately measured, yet the noise level at 100 Hz is surprisingly high in this measurement. This is because 100 Hz is just too close to 120 Hz, so that we don't actually get the noise level at that frequency, see last screen shot, which shows a zoom view on the previous measurement.

SDS2504X HD_Sig120Hz-80dBV_50_LP800kHz_20ms_1kHz

We can also see the measurement of the noise level at higher frequencies, such as -149.47 dBV at 100 kHz: 33.61 nVrms = 95.07 nVpp for 22.65 Hz bandwidth. That results in a noise density of 7.06 nV/√Hz. Of course we can get even lower noise down to about 2 nV/√Hz at the high frequencies, but at 100 kHz the 1/f noise of the MOSFET semiconductors takes its toll already.

[Martin72]

Ah, I just like this scope...

This screenshot also demonstrates how to work around any problems coming from the axis labes interfering with markers at the very left of the screen. It's easy: just start at one division later

You can do it this way until you have the option to place the label either on the left or on the right.
It can't be that difficult to realize this in one of the next updates.

[Martin72]

Oh well...
It's interesting how much this Scope understatement.
I had compared data again earlier, the HD is simply a precision instrument, no question.
It puts the SDS6000A in its pocket in the vertical range.
How did I get it?
I am very satisfied with the HD, but as in real life, one still has wishes....
So I would not be averse to a larger screen, also worms me the lack of active probe inputs, so that one looks but times, where you get that offered.
Not at Siglent, the next candidate would be the new model from R&S.
A "boosted" version of the 2k HD, that would be something.
Until then, I enjoy the SDS2504X-HD.

[teddychn]

I've been using the 54622D for over 20 years. I bought the AD2 for its resolution. However, both of them still have limitations that don't fully meet my requirements.

The decision to purchase the SDS2KHD was a deliberate one. It offers deep memory, a decent sample rate, high resolution, large offset ranges, and more. Only if Siglent improved the Bode-Plot speed issue, it's virtually a flawless scope to me.

[Performa01]

I have been bored today (well, not really), so I've killed time by creating a very busy screen on the SDS2504X HD with next FW, see attached screenshot.

How many traces can you see there?

It is

• 4 active input Channels
• 4 Memory traces (unike reference traces, these contain the original acquisition data and can be used as a source for precision math)
• 4 math Function traces, one LP filter, creating gibbs ears and three FFT plots

making for a total of 12 traces at the same time.

[Martin72]

And, what did the performance ? Did it still react ? 

[kripton2035]

very nice, next question is when will it be available !

[Martin72]

First (and last) update was from 16.09.2022...
This was a very long time ago and reminds one of Rigol, but....
I assume that our scope will then get an extensive "cure" and with 4 math channels, at least one super feature will also be included.
Personally, I still hope for our "FFT wish list", which is also taken into account.
The more (feasible) features are realized, the more you set yourself apart from the competition...

[teddychn]

My top wishes include improving the Bode plot speed and adding a logarithmic scale to the FFT frequency axis.

Before purchasing our first Siglent oscilloscope last year, I had investigated that Siglent oscilloscopes typically have more frequent and regular firmware updates compared to Rigol. However, the SDS2000X HD is an exception this time.

But the thing is, Siglent is more serious about their quality in many aspects. That's why I chose their products.

[Performa01]

And, what did the performance ? Did it still react ? 

I have not specifically payed attention to responsiveness, and I'm sure it slows down a little, but I can state for sure that there has never been a moment where I thought the instrument was sluggish.

I don't know when it will be released. The FW I'm demonstrating here is already more than four months old, so you can expect that something is going on behind the scenes that prevents the release of the update.

At least you have a proof folks at Siglent are busy improving the HD - they always do this, as long as there is no shortage on resources.

You should particularly appreciate the "M" (memory) traces, for they are exact copies of the acquired record, hence can require a lot of additional memory. And these memory-traces can be very useful:

• They can serve as true reference traces (with full data).
• They can be used as sources in math formulas, thus calculations can include not only the currently active channels, but also past acquisitions or even math results.
• Math results can be stored as a memory trace. This in turn can be used as an argument in math expressions, e.g. if the expression exceeds the permissible length in the formula editor. we could process an expression up to almost five times the standard length this way.

[Martin72]

But the thing is, Siglent is more serious about their quality in many aspects. That's why I chose their products.

Same here

[Performa01]

My top wishes include improving the Bode plot speed and adding a logarithmic scale to the FFT frequency axis.

Well, Bode Plot speed improvements are difficult if good results are expected, especially at lower frequencies, such as the audio range. But I might start a discussion at Siglent eventually, how we could maybe create a "quick and dirty" operating mode that sacrifices cleanliness and accuracy for speed...

Regarding the FFT, do you mean something like this (reply #46)?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg7000a-350-500-mhz-and-1-ghz-awgs-coming/msg5073394/#msg5073394

[Ulrich.G]

While we are waiting for a firmware update for over a year now, Siglent is busy in creating new models. After the low end SDS1000 HD, the SDS 3000 HD is about to come....

Bandwidth 350Mhz/500Mhz/1Ghz
4GS/s Sampling rate
12 bit