Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown

[Fungus]

The DHO800 and DHO900 are built on the same basic platform as the HDO1000 right?  This would mean that Rigol can use the same code base for all scopes on this new platform.  A common code base should mean fewer bugs for new products.  I am looking forward to seeing if this is the case.

I don't know if it's exactly the same files but the chipset, UI and software functions are identical.

The main difference between 800 and 1000 is in the screen size, bandwidth and memory size.

[UK]

The DHO800 and DHO900 are built on the same basic platform as the HDO1000 right?  This would mean that Rigol can use the same code base for all scopes on this new platform.  A common code base should mean fewer bugs for new products.  I am looking forward to seeing if this is the case.

I don't know if it's exactly the same files but the chipset, UI and software functions are identical.

The main difference between 800 and 1000 is in the screen size, bandwidth and memory size.

So, does that mean the possible future hack may increase the sample rate to 2 GSa/s as well?

[Fungus]

So, does that mean the possible future hack may increase the sample rate to 2 GSa/s as well?

I wouldn't count on it.

It's the same ADC as the 1000 series but the 800's FPGA probably can't process that much extra data.

[ptluis]

The DHO800 and DHO900 are built on the same basic platform as the HDO1000 right?  This would mean that Rigol can use the same code base for all scopes on this new platform.  A common code base should mean fewer bugs for new products.  I am looking forward to seeing if this is the case.

I don't know if it's exactly the same files but the chipset, UI and software functions are identical.

The main difference between 800 and 1000 is in the screen size, bandwidth and memory size.

So, does that mean the possible future hack may increase the sample rate to 2 GSa/s as well?

how robust should this scope be if booting from SD card? I had lots of problems with devices that use this type of card from GPS, PHOTO CAMERAS, SMARTPHONE, etc

[Mechatrommer]

replay: Aliexpress is out of stock of dho814. Where i can get now? Cant wait to experience 12bit..

It just sends 12 V without negotiation.

Of course that's unacceptable and dangerous. But Fungus ended up with a generic quote about USB-C and 12V which is, at least, misleading.

I assumed people would have read the post a couple above mine.

Here's the pic, in case anybody else was confused:
[img removed to save space, just follow the link]

12V directly into a USB connector. No data lines, no negotiation.
(not to mention what looks like a simple linear regulator)

could be a good thing, meaning we can connect directly the red+black wire to the 12V SLA/Lion/LiPo pack, no need destructable smps/linear semiconductors.

Some more diy:
https://youtu.be/MbBq1AVIQAc?si=P2TCHVbFpOiuOEis

Wow 

If I was to do it I'd use standard camera batteries like say the Sony NW-F970. But they would protrude a lot.
So just an off the shelf battery bank would work a treat with a suitable mounting, but it woudl block the airflow vents.
The one pictured here is so perfect in terms of form factor that Rigol should manufacture it.

i think one potential candidate is this $0.40 3S 20A Li-ion Lithium Battery 18650 Charger PCB BMS Protection Board 12.6V Cell 59x20x3.4mm Module i currently waiting 6pcs i ordered for something else, before i'm aware of this DHO800 model from your teardown video.

[UK]

It's the same ADC as the 1000 series but the 800's FPGA probably can't process that much extra data.

But what about DHA900?

Also found another difference from their specifications:
DHA800 and DHA1000 have a sensitivity range of 500 μV/div to 10 V/div
but DHA900 has a range of 200 μV/div to 10 V/div

[nctnico]

It's the same ADC as the 1000 series but the 800's FPGA probably can't process that much extra data.

But what about DHA900?

Also found another difference from their specifications:
DHA800 and DHA1000 have a sensitivity range of 500 μV/div to 10 V/div
but DHA900 has a range of 200 μV/div to 10 V/div

That is just a magnification of the 1mV range. And Rigol says to use at least 8mV/div for measurements. Read the fine print.

[2N3055]

It's the same ADC as the 1000 series but the 800's FPGA probably can't process that much extra data.

But what about DHA900?

Also found another difference from their specifications:
DHA800 and DHA1000 have a sensitivity range of 500 μV/div to 10 V/div
but DHA900 has a range of 200 μV/div to 10 V/div

That is just a magnification of the 1mV range. And Rigol says to use at least 8mV/div for measurements. Read the fine print.

Datasheet says to us 1mV/div (8mv full scale).  Screen has 8 vertical divisions. 
1mV/div is hardware sensitivity for them all, including 800/900/1000/4000.
They all use same frontend preamp chip...

[TomKatt]

I poked around looking for prior 8bit vs 12bit discussions but couldn't find as many on topic as I expected...  My gut says obviously 12bit is better than 8bit, but I seem to recall many folks saying that given the size of the display you'd be hard pressed to differentiate much improvement on the screen.

But the biggest thing is the single ADC - the Siglent SDS1104X-E has dual 1G sampling, so 4 channels at 500M.  If I understand correctly, the new Rigol's are 1.25G X 1 and then get divided down the more channels you use.  It seems like a higher sampling rate might offer more benefits compared to larger bit depth for hobby use?

Still - great to see this level of performance coming at such competitive pricing.  And the possibility of portable power is always welcomed.

[Fungus]

1mV/div is hardware sensitivity for them all, including 800/900/1000/4000.
They all use same frontend preamp chip...

Yes but they're measuring with 12 bits so a little bit of magnification should be OK.

(You can't see 12 bit resolution on a 600-pixel tall screen anyway)

[Fungus]

But the biggest thing is the single ADC - the Siglent SDS1104X-E has dual 1G sampling, so 4 channels at 500M.

Siglent is 200MHz so it needs more sample rate.

The DHO900 is a bit of a mystery. It obviously doesn't have high enough sample rate for 4 channels @ 200Mhz so it seems like it's going to alias badly if you feed it a 200Mhz signal with four channels enabled.

It does have a 100Mhz filter for the front end (for 100Mhz/200Mhz model selection), it would be a genius move by Rigol to turn that on when appropriate but I don't see any indication of that in the manual.

PS: The Siglent won't be 100% perfect, it's known to have an analog bandwidth higher than 200MHz so 500MS/sec is on the limit.

[TomKatt]

The DHO900 is a bit of a mystery. It obviously doesn't have high enough sample rate for 4 channels @ 200Mhz so it seems like it's going to alias badly if you feed it a 200Mhz signal with four channels enabled.

I was really thinking about the DHO800 series as the hype seems to be claiming them as the new budget king.  No doubt they are a good value, but I'm not convinced they stomp Siglent considering that the DHO814 is the same price as Siglent's SDS1104X-E, which has a few options such as AWG, Bode Plot and digital LA that the Rigol DHO800 doesn't offer.  Bode Plot in particular can be handy for working on analog filter circuits like crossovers and audio analysis.

[dreamcat4]

Well i 1st got interested in these because they are an even cheaper way of obtaining the missing Rigol asic for to transplant into DHO1000 series. Because to have at 300-400 bucks makes it pretty attractive cost-wise.

However there are several challenges for that. And while it looks plausible (in theory) nobody has yet seriously expressed a solid interest or tried attempting this feat... at least not yet.

But why attractive to use it to upgrade the 1074 with? ...well because 300 bucks is a similar sort of price point for many other software unlocks for mid range category scope upgrade options (after purchased). Across many vendors not just Rigol.

But the difference is a lower initial entrypoint cost for getting started with a lower spec.'d scope in the first place. Whether DHO1000 first, or the 800 first (either way around), either of those hardware upgrade paths are still significantly cheaper in terms of the initial layout costs. Rather than to buy  some endgame scope. And when you get your DHO800, 900, or 1000. It's an open upgrade path. You are not pre-committed to actually taking that route from the outset. Rather you can decide down the road. If and when it becomes a more attractive prospect. This avoids buying dillemmas, and other difficulties in justifying initial outlay cost. In particular when you also need to spend at least as much (or more in aggregate) on other pieces of equipment.

But totally unconnected from that... merely the fact that the 900 exists at all, as an MSO / mixed signal with the LA  digital inputs. This then gives some reasonable hopes or expectations of a respin on the DHO1000 series for an MSO variant. Surely that would also be kindda interesting thing to see coming out too. That you would expect (technology wise) because both being on such a similar shared platform. That the release timeframe should not be that far aways from right now. Because what extra challenges to overcome? --> doesn't seem so much now with 900 existing and being sold.

And in the grander scheme of things, that would (or should) be Rigol's answer in this competitive space to the SDS 2k+. Which IS mixed signal. And itself comes with some better built in AWG too. i.e. more like MSO5000 product replacement.

I do like the comparison to SDS1100X-E though. That is kindda important to bear in mind too... very good scope itself just no custom ASIC on Siglent side to compete with (to answer in future with a 12-bits). As was already previously discussed.

[Fungus]

I was really thinking about the DHO800 series as the hype seems to be claiming them as the new budget king.  No doubt they are a good value, but I'm not convinced they stomp Siglent considering that the DHO814 is the same price as Siglent's SDS1104X-E.

Who buys a DHO814 when the DHO804 is hackable?

(and only 30Mhz less even if you don't hack it - Rigol has been smart in not making the base model 50Mhz this time around)

Plus: You get a touch screen, more portability, HDMI, multi-windowing... lots of things the Siglent doesn't have. It's not all about paper specifications.

Once you've tried a touch screen (or mouse) then using a twisty knob for navigation is a complete joke. I went from a Rigol DS1054Z to a Micsig and I'd never go back even though the Rigol can do more things.

I do like the comparison to SDS1100X-E though. That is kindda important to bear in mind too... very good scope itself just no custom ASIC on Siglent side to compete with (to answer in future with a 12-bits). As was already previously discussed.

We're comparing apples to oranges IMHO. The attraction and bullet-points are different.

Me? I think we're at a "smartphone vs. flip-phone" point in the evolution of oscilloscopes. The writing is on the wall for old fashioned devices.

[Nikki Smith]

Who buys a DHO814 when the DHO804 is hackable?

(and only 30Mhz less even if you don't hack it - Rigol has been smart in not making the base model 50Mhz this time around)

Plus: You get a touch screen, more portability, HDMI, multi-windowing... lots of things the Siglent doesn't have. It's not all about paper specifications.

Once you've tried a touch screen (or mouse) then using a twisty knob for navigation is a complete joke. I went from a Rigol DS1054Z to a Micsig and I'd never go back even though the Rigol can do more things.

I'm certainly going to do my best to hack my DHO804 into a DHO924S, with the logic analyser and AFG. But even if I fail, I can still get a useful bandwidth boost with the firmware hack.

[Fungus]

I'm certainly going to do my best to hack my DHO804 into a DHO924S, with the logic analyser and AFG. But even if I fail, I can still get a useful bandwidth boost with the firmware hack.

It's going to be interesting to see if that's as simple as soldering on a connector and cutting a hole in the case.

[Fungus]

I'm still wondering if the chipset's audo is brought out to a pad or a header pin anywhere on the PCB.

Being able to turn this vertically and use it as a MAME arcade machine would be very, very cool.

[Nikki Smith]

I'm certainly going to do my best to hack my DHO804 into a DHO924S, with the logic analyser and AFG. But even if I fail, I can still get a useful bandwidth boost with the firmware hack.

It's going to be interesting to see if that's as simple as soldering on a connector and cutting a hole in the case.

For the LA it might be! the big question is what are those 2 missing BGA memory chips used for? Surely they aren't dedicated for the LA to work? I'm guessing/hoping that without them fitted, the LA memory depth will be quite limited in a hacked DHO800 compared to the DHO900.

The AFG needs a plugin PCB cloned. It has a lot of passives, but so far I haven't found any expensive/unique components, so the BOM cost could be pretty low. For the effort involved, it would make more sense to buy a separate AFG... but where would the fun in that be? 

[TomKatt]

I was really thinking about the DHO800 series as the hype seems to be claiming them as the new budget king.  No doubt they are a good value, but I'm not convinced they stomp Siglent considering that the DHO814 is the same price as Siglent's SDS1104X-E.

Who buys a DHO814 when the DHO804 is hackable?

My bad - I didn't realize that had been demonstrated yet.

And no doubt the DHO800 is great for the consumer.  It certainly raises the bar for inexpensive high performance gear, and will no doubt influence competitors to bring other gear to the market.

[Dacian]

I poked around looking for prior 8bit vs 12bit discussions but couldn't find as many on topic as I expected...  My gut says obviously 12bit is better than 8bit, but I seem to recall many folks saying that given the size of the display you'd be hard pressed to differentiate much improvement on the screen.

But the biggest thing is the single ADC - the Siglent SDS1104X-E has dual 1G sampling, so 4 channels at 500M.  If I understand correctly, the new Rigol's are 1.25G X 1 and then get divided down the more channels you use.  It seems like a higher sampling rate might offer more benefits compared to larger bit depth for hobby use?

Still - great to see this level of performance coming at such competitive pricing.  And the possibility of portable power is always welcomed.

I will attempt a comparison with a digital photocamera
The resolution of an oscilloscope is made out of ADC resolution on vertical so 8bit (256pixels) or 12bit (4096pixels) and sample rate on horizontal 1Gsps (1 billion) or 1.25Gsps (1.25billion)
So same as you can not see the full resolution of the camera sensor on the small build in preview LCD you can not see the full 12bit resolution unless you have an 8K screen (8000x4000pixels) but the information is available in the camera and oscilloscope memory and you can take that out and watch it on a large screen or zoom around on a smaller screen to see the details in some parts of the photo/waveform.

So the LCD resolution on an oscilloscope is about as irrelevant as the LCD screen on a photo-camera.

Now for for the 4 channel that will be equivalent to 4 lenses on a single photo camera that can be oriented in any direction and the ADC will be the sensor.
If you have a single sensor 4096 x 1 250 000 000 pixels then when you want to use a single lens you have access to entire resolution with two lenses half on the  horizontal for each and 3 or all 4 just a quarter.
If you have two ADC/sensors each with 256 x 1 000 000 000 pixels then when you use a lens you have a lower resolution as it can project on only one of those sensors and resolution will be lower than on the Rigol.
When all 4 channel's are used then each can see 256 x 500 000 000 pixels on that Siglent and that is better on horizontal but not on vertical 4096 x 312 500 000
At 70 or 100Mhz it will not make much of a difference if you have 500Msps or 312.5Msps but if you are interested in the vertical resolution then 4096 will be quite a bit more than 256.
You can always turn off the other 3 channels and then you still have slightly better horizontal resolution with 1.25Gsps vs 1Gsps

In therms of capturing a waveform you will be limited by the available memory for the horizontal.

[NE666]

what are those 2 missing BGA memory chips used for? Surely they aren't dedicated for the LA to work?

Almost certainly they are.  It has been demonstrated/alleged that the 900 series image can be installed on the 800's hardware and doing so gives rise to the full max. memory depth of 50Mpts for the analogue channels.  If that's so, then the analogue section acquisition memory must be entirely internal to the FPGA.  That only leaves these external DRAMs the role of LA sample memory and/or lower-rate application memory (maybe the Bode application, AWG?)

See: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigols-new-dho800-oscilloscope-unbox-teardown/msg4978852/#msg4978852

I'm guessing/hoping that without them fitted, the LA memory depth will be quite limited in a hacked DHO800 compared to the DHO900.

And based on the above, my guess is that without them fitted, there's simply no LA functionality, period.

[.RC.]

Once you've tried a touch screen (or mouse) then using a twisty knob for navigation is a complete joke.

Some people will find it preferable to play with knobs though over just touching.

[Doctorandus_P]

This thing is badly in need of a good and thorough review. A lot of people seem to praise it just because it has a 12 bit ADC, and the only screenshots I've seen suggest 3 of those bits are noise. Rigol has also been slow in adopting measurements from the real data, and if this thing does on screen measurements from the screen pixels, then the 12bit ADC is not very useful at all, but I guess that could be fixed with a firmware update later, but apparently it's already on the chinese market for half a year.

That said, is there anyone on the internet who does real thorough reviews of oscilloscopes? Most are just showing some sine waves, pushing some front panel buttons and then  concluding "yeah it works". And often they also show some of the new features of a new scope. but thorough reviews are really rare. How well does it capture difficult data? Does the segmented memory actually work as advertised? Resolution and accuracy of RMS measurements and things like that. For example, if this Rigol with it's 12 bit ADC still has a 3% accuracy for on screen RMS measurements, then that's pretty atrocious in my view. At the moment I'm not very impressed by this thing (yet), but it's too early to draw any conclusions, but I'm certainly not going t buy it just because it has a 12bit ADC.

[metrologist]

This thing is badly in need of a good and thorough review. A lot of people seem to praise it just because it has a 12 bit ADC, and the only screenshots I've seen suggest 3 of those bits are noise. Rigol has also been slow in adopting measurements from the real data, and if this thing does on screen measurements from the screen pixels, then the 12bit ADC is not very useful at all, but I guess that could be fixed with a firmware update later, but apparently it's already on the chinese market for half a year.

That said, is there anyone on the internet who does real thorough reviews of oscilloscopes? Most are just showing some sine waves, pushing some front panel buttons and then  concluding "yeah it works". And often they also show some of the new features of a new scope. but thorough reviews are really rare. How well does it capture difficult data? Does the segmented memory actually work as advertised? Resolution and accuracy of RMS measurements and things like that. For example, if this Rigol with it's 12 bit ADC still has a 3% accuracy for on screen RMS measurements, then that's pretty atrocious in my view. At the moment I'm not very impressed by this thing (yet), but it's too early to draw any conclusions, but I'm certainly not going t buy it just because it has a 12bit ADC.

There has been a lot of discussion on this forum of the DS1054Z/1154Z. Surely not wrapped up in a single video, if that's what you're expecting. Have you read the years long threads here on that product line? Do you really expect that will happen for this product in the next few months, delivered to you on a silver spoon? Why don't you do it?

[Fungus]

Once you've tried a touch screen (or mouse) then using a twisty knob for navigation is a complete joke.

Some people will find it preferable to play with knobs though over just touching.

Sure, for some things, eg. horizontal timebase.

For navigating menus, turning on measurements (looking at you, Siglent...), etc? It sucks.