Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown

[RAWebb]

Look closer. The screen shot shows your IP address was 192.168.0.2 and the camera's (listed as the "default gateway") was 192.168.0.1. So, you were pinging, and attempting an FTP connection to, yourself.

FWIW, I just fired mine up to check and in this instance it came up as 192.168.0.1 on the PC and 192.168.0.2 as the FLIR. How it is that which gets what, I do not know. Phase of the moon, maybe, or else Schrodinger is lurking nearby.

But, do whatever it was that you just did but check the ipconfig screen to see which you were assigned and then you should be good to go.

[wer4]

Still, it looks like FLIR has achieved their goal with scare tactics. It's been several weeks since 2.x.0 was released, and there seems to have been no serious attempts to hack it so far.

I don't think it has anything to do with whatever Flir may or may not have done -  the simple fact is the boat has mostly sailed.
Anyone interested in buying & hacking a camera will already have done so, and anyone looking now will try to get hold of a unit with older firmware, of which there are still a few around on ebay and probably also in distribution - 1.22 rwas eported on a unit from Amazon on Jul 11th.
(It would be interesting to know if Flir pulled old stock back like they did with 1.22, though we've had a report that an old unit updated by Flir to 2.3 is still hackable so maybe little point.)

The simple fact is that there are far, far fewer people with any need to hack the current firmware than was the case for the previous releases.  Maybe once 2.3 has been around a while someone will have a serious crack at it, though by then the E4 may be using Lepton cores.

Here is what FLIR said when I asked what legal basis they had

Code: [Select]

The listed product, a FLIR E4 upgraded to an E8 are all plainly counterfeit goods, as the sellers are selling goods that are counterfeit in that they are not authorized by the Manufacturer FLIR Systems.  Further, the Seller is violating numerous laws in its willful selling of the counterfeit goods, including, but not limited to:
   
1.       Violation of the Federal Copyright Act - The software on FLIR’s products is protected by copyright.  See 17 U.S.C. § 101 et seq.  Federal law prohibits unauthorized copying, reproduction, manipulation, modification, and commercial use of such software without FLIR’s permission. Id. § 101.  Because FLIR has not granted the Seller such permission, Seller’s manipulation and modification of FLIR’s software, including its source code, to purportedly “upgrade” FLIR E4 devices for commercial profit is a willful violation of these laws. 

2.       Violation of the Federal Trademark Act and the Federal Lanham Act - Absent special licensing arrangements, FLIR has not authorized Seller to use its proprietary trademark(s) in connection with third party products and services, much less so for items that are being passed off for profit as official FLIR products when they are nothing of the sort.   

3.       Violation the unfair competition and false advertising provisions of the Federal Lanham Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1125(a)(1)(B) – Seller’s claim that the products sold – a hacked version of FLIR’s E4 marketed as a “FLIR Special Edition” or “E8++” – is superior to FLIR’s own E8 is baseless, false and misleading, and thus violates the unfair competition and false advertising provisions of the Federal Lanham Act. 

4.       Violation of FLIR’s Terms of Use – the product being offered is not a FLIR E8, the seller has impermissibly hacked, manipulated, and passed off an E4 as an E8+ to unsuspecting consumers.  Introducing into the marketplace these unauthorized adulterated cameras under this false moniker will inevitably cause consumer confusion and injury, deceiving purchasers and users alike into believing the camera is authorized and backed by FLIR’s product support.

[miguelvp]

The listed product, a FLIR E4 upgraded to an E8 are all plainly counterfeit goods, as the sellers are selling goods that are counterfeit in that they are not authorized by the Manufacturer FLIR Systems.  Further, the Seller is violating numerous laws in its willful selling of the counterfeit goods, including, but not limited to:

The goods are unmodified FLIR hardware, so it's not counterfeit, they will have the burden of proof that the actual device is a copy, as far as not being authorized there is no dispute there but being the legal owner he can sell it.

I'm not an authorized dealer of my car, but I can sell it to whoever I want even if I upgraded parts of my car including the ECU, super chargers or any other non authorized third party improvements.
   

1.       Violation of the Federal Copyright Act - The software on FLIR’s products is protected by copyright.  See 17 U.S.C. § 101 et seq.  Federal law prohibits unauthorized copying, reproduction, manipulation, modification, and commercial use of such software without FLIR’s permission. Id. § 101.  Because FLIR has not granted the Seller such permission, Seller’s manipulation and modification of FLIR’s software, including its source code, to purportedly “upgrade” FLIR E4 devices for commercial profit is a willful violation of these laws. 

As far as I know, nobody modified the software. The actual executable remains untouched. Further, there are provisions in Sec. 103(f) of the DMCA (17 U.S.C. § 1201 (f)) stating that if you legally obtain a program that is protected, you are allowed to reverse-engineer and circumvent the protection to achieve the ability to achieve interoperability of computer programs, allowing the legal owner of the non-counterfeit device to make the software communicate with a third party software to achieve such interoperability.  Maybe a grey area, but the burden is on the prosecution.

2.       Violation of the Federal Trademark Act and the Federal Lanham Act - Absent special licensing arrangements, FLIR has not authorized Seller to use its proprietary trademark(s) in connection with third party products and services, much less so for items that are being passed off for profit as official FLIR products when they are nothing of the sort.   

I guess then I can't sell a Honda by name if Honda doesn't give me authorization to sell it under that badge name. They are really reaching here since it's a FLIR product and the burden is on them to prove that it's not a legally obtained product. As long as the seller doesn't claim he/she is an authorized dealer they can modify it. This is as ludicrous as some car company preventing me to sell my car because I use tires and spark plugs that are not OEM.

3.       Violation the unfair competition and false advertising provisions of the Federal Lanham Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1125(a)(1)(B) – Seller’s claim that the products sold – a hacked version of FLIR’s E4 marketed as a “FLIR Special Edition” or “E8++” – is superior to FLIR’s own E8 is baseless, false and misleading, and thus violates the unfair competition and false advertising provisions of the Federal Lanham Act. 

They have the burden of proof for this one to counter act that the product is actually not superior. But the seller would be stupid to actually say it's better than an E8 when they just have to claim the improvements over the original equipment. It will be like adding a super charger to a car, you can't claim is a different model but the same model with enhancements.

4.       Violation of FLIR’s Terms of Use – the product being offered is not a FLIR E8, the seller has impermissibly hacked, manipulated, and passed off an E4 as an E8+ to unsuspecting consumers.  Introducing into the marketplace these unauthorized adulterated cameras under this false moniker will inevitably cause consumer confusion and injury, deceiving purchasers and users alike into believing the camera is authorized and backed by FLIR’s product support.

The also have the burden of proof that the consumers are being mislead about a sale of a product, but the seller should be honest and don't claim it's not an E4 since it is an E4. But I don't see why the seller couldn't state the improvements over the original equipment.

Let's put it this way. I can buy a 35mm camera and use the body combined with optics made by me or a third party and the internal mechanics done yet by a different manufacturer, and I still will be able to sell it. I just can't claim it's the original camera or that it has any warranty of any kind.

Any legal action could bring a class action lawsuit for people that paid more for the same hardware sold at a fraction of the cost, if the court findings are that it's actually the same equipment.

All that said, if FLIR was to offer the software upgrades and be upfront that the hardware is the same, then that will give them more rights, but that is not the case. A similar thing will be to get a computer with some commercial version of an operating system and modify it to a different version of the operating system that the vendor offers as an upgrade. That still doesn't prevent a user to put their own software on such system as long as it's not the original and doesn't contain modified original code on it, but say we write our own firmware from scratch. That is totally legal as well so they have to thread lightly.

Manufacturers will have a field day if what they claim was to be upheld by the court, it will mean that if I had an electrical oven and the heating element broke I couldn't replace it with a third party one and still be able to sell it when I wanted. There will be thousands of court precedents.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer so this is just my opinion and not legal advice.

[miguelvp]

Since I don't want to edit my previous post, I want to state also that private sales are different than commercial sales.

Not sure how legal this link is but further research can be done:

http://www.consumerline.org/search/?cat=Goods+%26+Services&item=Private+Sales

Introduction

You can sometimes pick up a bargain when you buy privately, perhaps through a 'small ad' in your local newspaper or on the internet. But beware. Buying privately does not give you as many rights as buying from a trader.

What the law says

Goods bought privately do not have to be of satisfactory quality or fit for any specified purpose. But they do have to be properly described.

Useful information

There is a legal rule which applies to all goods bought privately. It is called 'caveat emptor', which means 'let the buyer beware'. Because of this, any responsibility for buying goods which are faulty lies with the buyer, and not with the private seller.

If you're thinking of buying something privately, make sure you inspect it thoroughly before you buy. Bring a witness with you, preferably someone who knows a lot about the sort of item being sold. They should be able to spot any defect which you may miss. And they should also be able to testify how the seller described the item if you later need to take court action. Ask for any appliance to be switched on so that you can see it working.

Don't forget that your only legal safeguard is that the item being sold must be properly described. And so you should ask a lot of questions about its condition. You should also keep a copy of any advert. If the seller's answers or description later turn out to have been false, then you can claim your money back. For example, if the seller tells you that the car he is selling is two years old and it turns out to be four years old, then you are entitled to your money back because the car has been misdescribed.

Some traders try to pretend they are private sellers so that it will be more difficult for you to claim against them. If you suspect that you are dealing with a trader and not a private individual, do not buy! If he is hiding his true identity, you can be sure he is hiding some defect in whatever he is trying to sell you. Tell-tale signs include lots of 'small ads' with the same telephone number or if the seller tries to hide the fact that he has business premises by offering to bring the item round to your house. Also, contact Consumerline on 0300 123 6262. It is a criminal offence for a trader to try and give the impression in advertisements that he or she is a private seller. This is a particular problem with the sale of second-hand cars. The details will be passed to the Trading Standards Service who can investigate complaints about advertisements placed by so called "hidden traders".

What to do if you have a complaint

Complain first to the private seller if you later find that the item you bought from him was not as described. Point out to him that it is against the law to do what he did and ask for your money back. Or if you want to keep the item, ask him to pay for the repair of any defect.

If, despite your efforts, you haven't been able to sort out your complaint, you may have to think about court action. If the amount involved is not more than £3,000, you can take your case yourself to the Small Claims Court. Talk to Consumerline, your local Advice Centre or Citizens Advice about this before you ask your local court for an application form. For larger amounts, you should talk to a solicitor.

But the original manufacturer is not at all involved in private sales as far as I can see. If FLIR's claims were to prevail in court it will expand to all consumer goods. I could even foresee a home constructor stipulating that if the original equipment placed in a home was to be replaced, it will violate the licensing agreement between the constructor and the owner, therefore insuring that you buy lightbulbs, fixtures, and other home goods only from authorized distributors.

Yeah, I'm reaching but not by much.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer so this is just my opinion and not legal advice. I don't even own a FLIR device.

[mamalala]

4.       Violation of FLIR’s Terms of Use – the product being offered is not a FLIR E8, the seller has impermissibly hacked, manipulated, and passed off an E4 as an E8+ to unsuspecting consumers.  Introducing into the marketplace these unauthorized adulterated cameras under this false moniker will inevitably cause consumer confusion and injury, deceiving purchasers and users alike into believing the camera is authorized and backed by FLIR’s product support.

The also have the burden of proof that the consumers are being mislead about a sale of a product, but the seller should be honest and don't claim it's not an E4 since it is an E4. But I don't see why the seller couldn't state the improvements over the original equipment.

Dunno what the law in the US (or anywhere else except Germany/EU) is, but over here they can write up agreements and terms of use and such stuff until they run out of ink. It has no legal power per se with respect to the customer. That is, if the goods are bought at a retail shop or a dealer or something. Because then i have a contract only with that dealer, and no one else. If they (or the dealer) want to have those clauses to have any effect, they must be shown to me at the point of sale, before the sale is done, so that i can accept or decline these conditions. What i don't see beforehand has exactly zero legal power. That is why, for example, shrink-wrap licenses are just a waste of ink and paper over here.

Greetings,

Chris

[mikeselectricstuff]

1.       Violation of the Federal Copyright Act - The software on FLIR’s products is protected by copyright.  See 17 U.S.C. § 101 et seq.  Federal law prohibits unauthorized copying, reproduction, manipulation, modification, and commercial use of such software without FLIR’s permission.

How do they define "unauthorised" manipulation?
Normal operation, for example changing settings, saving images etc. involves some change of state. I don't recall anything in the documentation that explicitly forbids FTPing in and changing files. What about invoking the service mode?
There is an interesting issue here in that software for additional functionality was already there - the fact that it's there could be seen as implicit authorisation.
Another major issue is that the buyer does not have to agree to any license terms prior to purchase or use, so how is the user supposed to know that making use of certain parts of the software is unauthorised?

2.       Violation of the Federal Trademark Act and the Federal Lanham Act - Absent special licensing arrangements, FLIR has not authorized Seller to use its proprietary trademark(s) in connection with third party products and services, much less so for items that are being passed off for profit as official FLIR products when they are nothing of the sort.   

The seller (in the listings I saw at least) clearly stated the nature of the product - they were not passing anything of as something that it wasn't.
Might be interesting to explore the situation if someone bought units and rebranded under their own name.

3.       Violation the unfair competition and false advertising provisions of the Federal Lanham Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1125(a)(1)(B) – Seller’s claim that the products sold – a hacked version of FLIR’s E4 marketed as a “FLIR Special Edition” or “E8++” – is superior to FLIR’s own E8 is baseless, false and misleading, and thus violates the unfair competition and false advertising provisions of the Federal Lanham Act. 

The upgraded unit has features that are not available on a standard E8, therefore it is clearly superior in some respects. May be on slightly dodgy ground associating the name Flir with it though. So maybe "Acme cam-hackers special edition"..?

4.       Violation of FLIR’s Terms of Use

What terms of use? The buyer has not agreed to any terms of use, so this is utter nonsense.

– the product being offered is not a FLIR E8

The seller wasn't claiming it was

, the seller has impermissibly hacked, manipulated, and passed off an E4 as an E8+ to unsuspecting consumers.  Introducing into the marketplace these unauthorized adulterated cameras under this false moniker will inevitably cause consumer confusion and injury, deceiving purchasers and users alike into believing the camera is authorized and backed by FLIR’s product support.

In what way are consumers unsuspecting? ISTR The listing was clear as to what they were getting.
Interesting that no legislation was cited in respect of this. 


AFAICS the only solid argument they have is the use of the term "Flir special edition"

[Fraser]

For me a key omission from FLIRs legal comments are any reference to a user modification being in any way 'illegal' This tallies with what I was told at the beginning of this upgrade odyssey. So selling an E4 as an E4 is not illegal and the buyer can upgrade it if they wish. I doubt stating the firmware version is wrong either as many products have various generations of firmware, some better than others, and buyers like to know which is installed.

Basically...."my toy, I shall do with it as I please" 

Aurora

[Echo88]

Hi,

with a software > 1.22.0 it seems to be the case a camera ressource node ".resmon.registry.config.hideGraphics " was included. This function hides the icons and the temperature-scale. My cam has 1.22.0 (now E8-standard). Does anyone know how to change the firmware-files to include this function and set it via telnet or durable in the file?
Is it necessary to update my cam to > 1.22.0 while risking to brick it?


Greetings,

Echo

[edavid]

Since I don't want to edit my previous post, I want to state also that private sales are different than commercial sales.

But, did the eBay seller list the item as New, or imply that there was a Flir warranty?  If so, that would lead the buyer to think it was a commercial sale.  In a situation like this (not an authorized reseller, Flir making threats), the item should have been listed as Used.

Here are some discussion threads about a similar situation, with Netgear bullying resellers:

http://saverocity.com/bighabitat/1-26-14-netgear-gets-nasty-lawsuit-another-reseller/
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=198433
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1336470

[Sentient BeanCurd]

Thanks for the helpful input here. Problem was resolved by turning off ALL network adapters including Bluetooth. And then waiting 3 minutes after the TIC powered up  before attempting connection with the correct IP address.

I'd say most people having problems connecting to the device have some kind of network adapter still active while trying to connect. It was impossible to connect until I checked that my Bluetooth was still active in control panel.

Oh..and that TIConfig tool is the way to go to perform the hack...messing with the config file manually is sure to cause problems.

[PedroDaGr8]

Direct link to drivers: http://cdn.cloud.flir.se/swdownload/assets/other/flir_device_drivers.exe
Both x86 and x64 seem to point to the same file - correct me if I'm wrong.

thanks for this link nitroxide. (2 more months n it be 2014 october ha !)
i used the widely available info to "toy" with my E4 (thanks mike, aurora, DS etc.). and a certain youtube vid was very nicely done on this subject.

i made a blunder initially. i forgot to add in a LF after the CRC03. the device still booted (its a 1.22.0/1.1L), but it did not work fully as "intended", the menu was screwy, the image wasnt the full sensor array. when it booted, the splash screen has an additional *SPECIAL EDITION* wording to it (and a WIFI symbol popped on screen ... o my)

i did another edit n added the LF and a 2nd upload (  )

so ... what other nifty mods can i add to this very nice tool ? ( i saw a discussion on changing color palettes and add-on lenses ). i just wish FLIR sold E4 as a full uncrippled device and sold an E8 as a XGA resolution FLIR, hehe i must be dreaming right?

edit : and the new menu seems to work much faster, as i used the original menu for sometime before trying the mod. is there a "delay" string in original E4 code?

edit : reading the last few posts, so FLIR is going to clamp down on users who applied the mod ? or are they attacking the "chiefs" of this "mod".

They appear to be going after the people profiting off of the upgrades. The sellers on ebay that are upgrading the camera and making a profit off of the upgraded camera.

[mikeselectricstuff]

edit : reading the last few posts, so FLIR is going to clamp down on users who applied the mod ?

How exactly would they do that?

They appear to be going after the people profiting off of the upgrades. The sellers on ebay that are upgrading the camera and making a profit off of the upgraded camera.

..but only half-heartedly it seems- some listings have reappeared

[ychl0060]

???1.22?

[Roboss]

Hi guys anyone know a sure fire way to get 1.22 version shipped to Aus?

I'm not holding my breath that the new firmware can be hacked.

[OrBy]

Hi,

with a software > 1.22.0 it seems to be the case a camera ressource node ".resmon.registry.config.hideGraphics " was included. This function hides the icons and the temperature-scale. My cam has 1.22.0 (now E8-standard). Does anyone know how to change the firmware-files to include this function and set it via telnet or durable in the file?
Is it necessary to update my cam to > 1.22.0 while risking to brick it?


Greetings,

Echo

Ohhhh this would be really nice for UVC video capture!

[MarcelM]

Hi Guys,

I ordered an E4 last monday, on the CONDITION that it was a version 1.22 or below.
Distributor replied that he had a 1.21 in stock, which I promptly ordered...

Came in today, parameters are:

Model              E4 1.1L
Serial number  639164xx
Part number    63901-0101
Software         1.21.0

(ordered in The Netherlands)

Not tried any upgrades yet, first want to play with the thing to get a feel for it's out-of-the-box performance.

Rgds,
Marcel

[realdoc]

I ordered an E4 last monday, on the CONDITION that it was a version 1.22 or below.
Distributor replied that he had a 1.21 in stock, which I promptly ordered...

Where did you order it? I'm also based in The Netherlands and I gave up on my 2.x unit. If they still have them in stock I would be really interested.

[Fraser]

May I please suggest that sales of E4's, upgradeable E4's and upgraded E4's be placed in the buy and sell section of the EEVBlog.

Why? ....well if FLIR decide to turn nasty and continue to pursue anyone trying to sell an E4 as an 'upgradeable to E8' platform, could it not endanger this amazing thread ? If they complain to Dave about items in the buy and sell section, at least only those specific topics will be removed.

Thanks 

Aurora

[digsys]

May I please suggest that sales of E4's, upgradeable E4's and upgraded E4's be placed in the buy and sell section of the EEVBlog.

+1  Can it be moved?
EEEEEP Stock prices are rising faster than the peak oil crisis :-)

[Fraser]

@mondeo,

I can see your viewpoint but sadly FLIR have made it clear that even saying you will help upgrade a camera that you are selling breaches their rights. Whilst such is debatable it would be a pity if the FLIR lawyers started hassling Dave to remove this thread. It might be just the excuse they are looking for as I doubt they like this threads content 

How about you reword your advert and detail your E4 as a standard unit with version 1.22 firmware and say nothing more, especially about helping people to upgrade it. Anyone interested in upgrading the camera AFTER they buy it can find the help that they need anyway.

You are also selling the E4 at a mark-up.....this appears to anger FLIR, so they may still contact you about 'unauthorised' selling of their products causing reputational damage..... again, no idea how valid that argument truly is.

Lets not risk this thread eh ? You could always place your advert in the correct buy and sell area and direct people to it from a posting here ?

Kindest Regards

Aurora

[MarcelM]

I ordered an E4 last monday, on the CONDITION that it was a version 1.22 or below.
Distributor replied that he had a 1.21 in stock, which I promptly ordered...

Where did you order it? I'm also based in The Netherlands and I gave up on my 2.x unit. If they still have them in stock I would be really interested.

Try sensorbv.nl. They've been very helpful & shipped promptly...

Groeten,
Marcel

[RoryJones]

I am wanting to get a TIC.  Are current versions of the E4 still hackable?

[jjmmss00]

I think that Flair is actually enjoying the surge in sales from selling a large number of E4 cameras, and will continue to make the hackable version available (which seems to be the case so far).

At the same time, they need to keep up an image for their mainstream corporate customers of trying to fight this.

I worked for large aerospace companies for many years and listened to a large amount of meaningless talk/propaganda from management. I believe that one needs to ignore mostly what is said, and pay close attention to what I is actually done. So far for Flair, it seems to me that the actual actions are very limited.

[Roboss]

Hi guys,

I've been on the hunt for a 1.22 E4.

I'd suggest trying the guys at Valuetesters.com

Click the quote button, Sam there was of great assistance and they're happy send overseas.

I'll report back when it arrives.

[ixfd64]

The FLIR website doesn't list them yet, but the T3 2014 promotions are now available: http://www.johnstonesupply.com/assets/store92/123114-flir.pdf

Just an FYI.