EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[SeanB]

Aussie50 needs one to put through his shredder. Nice and slow, and will be recorded in high def.

[SL4P]

Thin, sharp-edged stainless steel... heck, when Batteriser folds - they could be repurposed as blender blades (or military shrapnel!)....

[Ian.M]

If you put a 3.6V Lithium AA sized battery in, does it become a miniature IED, and is it directional? 

[Cyberdragon]

If you put a 3.6V Lithium AA sized battery in, does it become a miniature IED, and is it directional?

It might just blow instantly all over your hand. But thats another design failure, because I'm pretty sure theres no voltage protection. (We might revise this to a feature since it has none.)

Once I get some new capacitors for my 600v vacuum tube PSU, these little metal holders might be goods mounts for pencil leads to make an arc lamp. Once of course I've used the PSU to burn away all of the grainy bits in the sleeve.

[Wytnucls]

Their IC should have an overvoltage protection like the similar LT3526, but we shall see. 

[Cyberdragon]

Will it protect it against a tesla coil though? :p

[Brumby]

Will it protect it against a tesla coil though? :p

Cue the Mythbusters.....

[AmmoJammo]

I don't understand why bob keeps referring to it as a shipping delay...

A delay in shipping implies that there's something to ship, and they're trying to sort out the logistics of sending to however many countries it is, some which would be large quantities using drop shipping, some that I imagine would have to be single packages sent to a country...

However, there is no doubt in my mind that all of our backers will be getting the batterisers they ordered!

 

[SL4P]

Everyone relax, it's a typo.
I think they meant 'a chipping  delay'....

[Brumby]

From Indiegogo just now...

12 days ago

Dear Indiegogo Supporters,

Our team has been hard at work completing final development of Batteriser and moving into initial production. At this time, we have encountered a slight delay relating to the manufacturing of the Batteriser's integrated circuit (IC).

Our earlier proof of concept prototype IC could efficiently deliver 500 milliamps of steady state current. However, as many applications need higher current driving capabilities, we modified our Integrated Circuit (IC) design to make it capable of the higher level of current driving capability. We expected our final IC to be ready and out of the fabrication facility (FAB) over a month ago. However, due to a drift in process parameters, the IC is still being worked on by our engineering team, in order to be ready for mass production. Fortunately, we have been working diligently with the FAB to address and fix the issues responsible for this delay, and we are anxiously waiting to receive our final IC in the coming weeks. We are committed to producing your Batterisers with the highest quality standards.

As you might recall, this is the last component necessary to start assembling and shipping Batterisers. At this time, we will need to delay our estimated ship date, but we are doing everything possible to ship Batterisers to you and your family as soon as possible, and hopefully before Christmas.

"we are anxiously waiting to receive our final IC in the coming weeks".

I wouldn't be holding my breath for Christmas.

[Cyberdragon]

This has probably already been covered somewhere in these 200+ pages but...take a look at this

(this is their FCC testing)

http://batteriser.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Batteriser_Report_FCC.pdf

almost ONE GIGAHERTZ?! From a boost converter?!

[PA0PBZ]

almost ONE GIGAHERTZ?! From a boost converter?!

800% more Hz...

[FrankBuss]

My first guess was harmonics. But I think that's not possible, because there is nothing from 30 MHz to 500 MHz. And can't be the switching frequency, because the report says "highest intentionally generated frequency is 1.5 MHz", so 1.5 MHz might be the switching frequency of the voltage converter (and emitted radiation for this frequency would be very low with the 1k test resistor). Maybe some other HF voodoo I don't know or understand?

[SL4P]

::: Maybe some other HF voodoo I don't know or understand?

That would fit Batteroo's marketing model 

[Wytnucls]

My first guess was harmonics. But I think that's not possible, because there is nothing from 30 MHz to 500 MHz. And can't be the switching frequency, because the report says "highest intentionally generated frequency is 1.5 MHz", so 1.5 MHz might be the switching frequency of the voltage converter (and emitted radiation for this frequency would be very low with the 1k test resistor). Maybe some other HF voodoo I don't know or understand?

Anti-Ringing Control:
The anti-ring circuit connects a resistor across the inductor
to prevent high frequency ringing on the SW pin
during discontinuous current mode operation. Although
the ringing of the resonant circuit formed by L and CSW
(capacitance on SW pin) is low energy, it can cause EMI
radiation.(LT3526 datasheet)

[Halcyon]

Wait... this Batteriser thing is still going? I mean no one's seen a product yet but the Batteroo jokers still claim it's going to happen? 

I bet there are a lot of pissed off "investors" by this stage.

[Muttley Snickers]

And don't forget that there are probably more people waiting for it to debunk than there are legitimate backers.

I have no doubt that the device will be suitable in particular applications, for instance if you added a treble hook you could probably catch a fish.

[EEVblog]

I don't understand why bob keeps referring to it as a shipping delay...
A delay in shipping implies that there's something to ship

Yes, clearly playing with words again.
You can't have admittedly pre-production silicon prototype issues requiring new silicon and call it shipping problem. It's impossible.
They have design problems after their shipping date, and way after they claimed to be ready for production.

[Rasz]

I still dont understand how a product advertised to deliver 2A initially? then lowered to 500mA, can pass FCC testing at 1.5mA and be legit???

its like testing idling plane engine for fuel consumption
edit: bad analogy, its like testing idling plane engine for effective perceived noise level (EPNL)

[SeanB]

I still dont understand how a product advertised to deliver 2A initially? then lowered to 500mA, can pass FCC testing at 1.5mA and be legit???

its like testing idling plane engine for fuel consumption
edit: bad analogy, its like testing idling plane engine for effective perceived noise level (EPNL)

News from Batterpoo:

" We hired some new engineering staff, ex Volkswagen, who have come up with some proven ways to increase design efficiency under the standardised test conditions"

[LabSpokane]

I don't understand why bob keeps referring to it as a shipping delay...
A delay in shipping implies that there's something to ship

Yes, clearly playing with words again.
You can't have admittedly pre-production silicon prototype issues requiring new silicon and call it shipping problem. It's impossible.
They have design problems after their shipping date, and way after they claimed to be ready for production.

Or testing a aircraft engine before the crankcase makes it out of the CAD station. 

[AmmoJammo]

more and more people asking where their batteriesers are...

approximate dates for shipping? we'll let you know next week! 

that would suggest that they have no idea... if their magical ICs were done, they'd have some idea of production time... those damn s(c)hipping delays!

[McBryce]

I still dont understand how a product advertised to deliver 2A initially? then lowered to 500mA, can pass FCC testing at 1.5mA and be legit???

its like testing idling plane engine for fuel consumption
edit: bad analogy, its like testing idling plane engine for effective perceived noise level (EPNL)

News from Batterpoo:

" We hired some new engineering staff, ex Volkswagen, who have come up with some proven ways to increase design efficiency under the standardised test conditions"

VW Engineers? So it will output 2Amps on a test fixture, but only 200mA when used in an everyday situation?

McBryce.

[EEVblog]

Bob is still claiming a x6 increase in battery life on the golf GPS.
He's going to be very embarrassed when people get the Batteriser and actually test it with the exact same GPS

[EEVblog]

Latest update today:

We'll have a clearer sense of the exact timeline by next week, so we plan on sending another update regarding shipping at that time.

So by say the end of next week (18th worst case) they have a "clearer sense" of the "exact timeline".
So he's not talking about shipping, he's talking about knowing the timeline.
That means absolutely no delivery in December, no doubt about it. Because you don't announce a "timeline" and then ship the same week.
No surprises of course, we all knew this, because they have to get and test the new silicon. They don't even have the new silicon yet, otherwise they'd be crowing about it.