EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[Fungus]

I wrote a more portable version of the Arduino-voltage logger. Has a bit more jitter than the interrupt version, but this is not important for the 1 s sample clock.

How did you measure that? I can't see how it would be more than a dozen clock cycles.

Code: [Select]

{
  ...
  digitalWrite(ledPin, digitalRead(ledPin) ^ 1);
}


Not really correct ... you aren't supposed to assume what the values of "HIGH" or "LOW" are.

If you want to use the ^ operator then:

Code: [Select]


  digitalWrite(ledPin, digitalRead(ledPin) ^ (HIGH^LOW));



[FrankBuss]

I wrote a more portable version of the Arduino-voltage logger. Has a bit more jitter than the interrupt version, but this is not important for the 1 s sample clock.

How did you measure that? I can't see how it would be more than a dozen clock cycles.

I didn't measure it. But I assume "millis" is set in an interrupt, and then there is the length of the tests in the while loop, but right, maybe not more than a dozen cycles.

Not really correct ... you aren't supposed to assume what the values of "HIGH" or "LOW" are.

If you want to use the ^ operator then:

Code: [Select]


  digitalWrite(ledPin, digitalRead(ledPin) ^ (HIGH^LOW));



I had to think about it, but right, this works for any value for HIGH and LOW, if it is not equal, clever code

[Fungus]

If you want to use the ^ operator then:

Code: [Select]


  digitalWrite(ledPin, digitalRead(ledPin) ^ (HIGH^LOW));



I had to think about it, but right, this works for any value for HIGH and LOW, if it is not equal, clever code

Personally I would write:

Code: [Select]


digitalWrite(ledPin, !digitalRead(ledPin));


This is neater and easier to read/type. It's not technically quite as correct as "^(HIGH^LOW)" but it's unlikely to break. It relies on ANSI C's definition of 'true' and 'false', the Arduino people wouldn't dare break that (the result would be apocalyptic).

[ez24]

something is screwy so I took a screen shot of it

talking about Arduino code on this topic ?

[McBryce]

Too many tabs open Fungus? 

McBryce.

[Fungus]

something is screwy so I took a screen shot of it

talking about Arduino code on this topic ?

Arduino code that plots battery discharge curves. Yes.

[5ky]

Have you guys seen the batteriser video where they demo the batteriser in an apple bluetooth keyboard?  It's ridiculous and REALLY misleading to the average joe.

They put in "dead" batteries that show 13% capacity left in OS X on the laptop it's paired to, then they pop those same batteries into batterisers, then back into the keyboard, then the OS power monitor for the keyboard shows the keyboard is at 100%.  They were VERY careful with their wording in that video.  Not once did they ever say the word energy or capacity.  They only said "these dead batteries show 13%" and "it now shows 100%".  That will mislead the general public to believe that it means it's actually full capacity, but obviously the capacity monitor uses battery voltage to give you a capacity percent.  When you boost the voltage back up to the voltage of fresh cells, the capacity monitor will think the batteries are at full capacity, which is not even remotely true in that case.  For all we know, those batteries actually have only 15 minutes of juice left in them but due to their misleading video, people will assume it'll go as long as fresh batteries would last when you use the batteriser on empty cells.  Grrrrrrrrrrrrr those fools are driving me insane.  Link to said video:

Their website FAQ section had a question about current capability and their answer was "No, the Batteriser sleeve is designed to deliver as much current as a battery is able to supply to the device."  So.... I'm supposed to believe that their boost converter using an inductor half the size of a grain of rice is capable of 5-10 amps like a fresh AA battery can put out?  Baloney.  There's a reason why they never used batteriser in that stupid monkey, and why their "demo" videos are always in really low current devices like remotes, bluetooth keyboards, low power 3.5mm led flashlights, etc.

I made a video about this a couple weeks ago because I was so pissed when I saw that video.  Their other videos are pretty dubious also, but that's no surprise.  I'm VERY excited for my campaign rewards.

[LabSpokane]

Have you guys seen the batteriser video where they demo the batteriser in an apple bluetooth keyboard?  It's ridiculous and REALLY misleading to the average joe.

Already tested.  Totally false claim:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-779-how-to-measure-product-battery-cutoff-voltage/msg730784/#msg730784

[AmmoJammo]

They only said "these dead batteries show 13%" and "it now shows 100%".  That will mislead the general public to believe that it means it's actually full capacity, but obviously the capacity monitor uses battery voltage to give you a capacity percent.

Thats what they do with all their videos...

In the GPS video, they claim that the GPS "stopped functioning".... which it did, till the "ok" message on the screen was pressed, then the GPS would have kept working for another 8 hours.

They never claimed the batteries to be depleted, or that they're reached the cut off voltage of the GPS...

[5ky]

Have you guys seen the batteriser video where they demo the batteriser in an apple bluetooth keyboard?  It's ridiculous and REALLY misleading to the average joe.

Already tested.  Totally false claim:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-779-how-to-measure-product-battery-cutoff-voltage/msg730784/#msg730784

Well you just saved me $69.  I was going to go buy one to test, but I guess I don't have to.  (not that it really needed to be tested--they know exactly what they're doing, and what they're doing is misleading the general public)

What pisses me off is that if they were honest from the start about everything, this could and would still be a successful device with decent uses.  There ARE some applications where you could potentially get some more life out of a set of batteries, but when they make broad claims about "most devices only use 20%" sort of crap--ahhhhhh it makes me so mad.  I need a beer.

They only said "these dead batteries show 13%" and "it now shows 100%".  That will mislead the general public to believe that it means it's actually full capacity, but obviously the capacity monitor uses battery voltage to give you a capacity percent.

Thats what they do with all their videos...

In the GPS video, they claim that the GPS "stopped functioning".... which it did, till the "ok" message on the screen was pressed, then the GPS would have kept working for another 8 hours.

They never claimed the batteries to be depleted, or that they're reached the cut off voltage of the GPS...

And I know they know EXACTLY what they're doing because they suspiciously know what words to say, and what words NOT to say in their "demo" videos.  Sneaky f'n snakes.

[ez24]

something is screwy so I took a screen shot of it

talking about Arduino code on this topic ?

Arduino code that plots battery discharge curves. Yes.

oh sorry

Has anyone built a breadboard circuit to do what the Batteriser is suppose to do and chart the graphs under different loads?  Seems with all the smart people here this would be simple to do and now we have arduino code to help.

It would be interesting to see what a real high efficiency circuit could do.  There is a battery grapher guy here but not sure if he could put the circuit together (I lost his name)  but he sure can make some nice battery graphs.  I suggest someone make up a circuit and send it to him to test with his test equipment.

[Mr.B]

Has anyone built a breadboard circuit...

Jay_Diddy_B

Check this thread...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/new-project-a-batterruser/

[ccs46]

I'm wondering if the thing is UL listed, someone on their latest videos said they could not find it in the database, they are asking for Baterisers model number.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ez24]

Has anyone built a breadboard circuit...

Jay_Diddy_B

Check this thread...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/new-project-a-batterruser/

Thanks I remember it now.  I see someone just replied with "bookmark".  I have been trying to figure how to track posts, I see this is a way.

[Mr.B]

I see someone just replied with "bookmark".

 

[Halcyon]

The other problem I see with the Batteriser (and it's already been mentioned by a few users) is the very real possibility that these things will get stuck inside consumer products. Take the Apple keyboard for example, it might slide in OK, but who knows what is inside that battery compartment. All it would take is the Batteriser to shift slightly and catch on something inside and you're buggered. Good way to void product warranties by having to pull the thing apart just to get that damn batteries out.

And I know they know EXACTLY what they're doing because they suspiciously know what words to say, and what words NOT to say in their "demo" videos.  Sneaky f'n snakes.

Yep! It's as much about what you don't say as it is that's actually said. Enough to fool the average person perhaps. Typical salesmen. Unfortunately they don't know their own product very well.

[SundayProgrammer]

Have you guys seen the batteriser video where they demo the batteriser in an apple bluetooth keyboard?  It's ridiculous and REALLY misleading to the average joe.

clip...

The first time I see the actual product running. So... it seems that it thin enough to fit into the Mac keyboard. I hope they can get batteries out from one too...
But still... IMHO Batteriser is a "battery level indicator disabler"... which also uses energy of a battery to operate.

Axel.

[5ky]

What will be funny is the large number of devices that will actually lose ~10% battery life using batteriser.  We all know there are tons of devices that already dry up almost everything in the batteries they use, so wrapping a ~90% efficient boost converter around the batteries means you're adding loss to the system, and nothing else.  Quite contrary to the 80% B.S. they claim

[firewalker]

Can anyone see the comments below? They got deleted?



Alexander.

[Fungus]

Has anyone built a breadboard circuit to do what the Batteriser is suppose to do and chart the graphs under different loads?

There's not much point.  If we pick a DC booster device that's close to Batteriser's parameters (boost 0.8-1.5V to 1.5V, up to 1A) then all the graphs are already plotted in the datasheet. We can draw enough conclusions from the datasheet to know that Batteriser doesn't work.

eg. This one will boost 0.8V to 1.5V: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps61000.pdf

Also: Batteriser is working with really strict size requirements. Their inductor has to be tiny and this will affect the results a lot. Data produced from a breadboard circuit using that chip wouldn't be accurate.

OTOH if anybody's bored and has the parts then why not...? It might be interesting to see the effects of reduced inductor size and extrapolate down to a 1mm cube like Batteriser uses.

[Fungus]

This one will boost 0.8V to 1.5V: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps61000.pdf

I see another potential issue in that datasheet: Power-on isn't instant.

I it takes a few milliseconds (eg. 8ms for that device) for the output to ramp up.

How will this affect things like keyboards which expect instant power every time you press a key? Will they get brown-outs?

[meeder]

Maybe the batteriser is in a always on state which causes even faster draining....

[Fungus]

Maybe the batteriser is in a always on state which causes even faster draining....

It seems likely that it is. There's no way to shut down a booster that has to work everywhere.

eg. They show it in remote controls and Apple keyboards, devices which only consume microamps when they're idle. If it doesn't shut down in those devices then it probably has no shut down capability.

[meeder]

Which dramatically increases the risk of leaking batteries due to deep discharge in low power devices in which normal batteries can be used for years.

[Godzil]

Who care about leaking battery? They will go into the trash so.


Oh wait! the device around the battery is not going to the trash too?
Crap!