EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[EEVblog]

Nobody from Batteroo has posted here - certainly as far as we know.
If there had been, you would not have any doubts.

Actually, there was a sock puppet account at one point. I think they caught on that we had caught on and they disappeared pretty quick.

[EEVblog]

The direct comunication was with videos.
Butteriser posted a video.
Dave posted a video showing that the video was full of false claims
Butteriser posted a video trying to disprove Dave.
Dave posted a video showing that the answer video was full off bull s.....
.
.
.

I never did do that response to their long "technical" video. My enthusiasm died when they mentioned the snail.

[kalleboo]

Actually, there was a sock puppet account at one point. I think they caught on that we had caught on and they disappeared pretty quick.

Was that the "Davey_Jonez" ones or was there another one I forgot?

[Brumby]

Nobody from Batteroo has posted here - certainly as far as we know.
If there had been, you would not have any doubts.

Actually, there was a sock puppet account at one point. I think they caught on that we had caught on and they disappeared pretty quick.

I must have blinked at the wrong time...

[quad]

In that case Bob would be admitting that he lied about shipping them to backers.
Bob did ship these to Wayne in the official final packaging, with the official indiegogo back letter, and marked his pledge as being fulfilled. So according to Bob these are not prototypes.

Lying solves everything: "Oh golly gosh! The intern at Batteroo must have sent Wayne the prototypes by mistake! I apologize for the mix-up and we will be sending Wayne a fresh set of the production units and a 9V Batteroo!"

Which reminders me... what ever happened to that 9V version? Are they going to ship that separately after the fact?

[rrinker]

 I really wonder about the 9V one - where are they going to fit it on the battery? I have plenty of devices that use 9V batteries that have a fairly solid bit that's part of the battery compartment that comes right between the terminals. These would be devices that have fixed contacts instead of using a battery snap. Clip to the top, with exposed contacts on top, with 4 traces running down the sleeve to the electronics on the bottom, 2 feeding from the battery, 2 going to the contacts to supply power to the device? If so, I have the perfect torture test device, it has a rather solid spring at the bottom of the battery, two heavy strips of metal. The fit is tight - some brands of the 9.6V rechargeable types do not fit as they slightly exceed the 9V RECT form factor, maybe by 1mm or less. And of all things that could USE a boost converter like the Batterizer... to the point where I have considered building my own and fitting it inside the case somewhere. Or fitting 2 AA plus boost converter for longer life. Current draw isn't high, but the thing is very sensitive to voltage - when it gets much below 8.2V it gets erratic and stops working completely shortly thereafter.

[jonovid]

lol 

[HKJ]

The fit is tight - some brands of the 9.6V rechargeable types do not fit as they slightly exceed the 9V RECT form factor, maybe by 1mm or less. And of all things that could USE a boost converter like the Batterizer... to the point where I have considered building my own and fitting it inside the case somewhere. Or fitting 2 AA plus boost converter for longer life. Current draw isn't high, but the thing is very sensitive to voltage - when it gets much below 8.2V it gets erratic and stops working completely shortly thereafter.

You can get 9V batteries with a build-in boost converter.

[rrinker]

 I did not know that. Never saw such a thing. A quick Google isn't finding me anything, other than some simply 3V to V boost circuits.

[HKJ]

I did not know that. Never saw such a thing. A quick Google isn't finding me anything, other than some simply 3V to V boost circuits.

Look for usb charged LiIon 9V batteries. I have a review in queue with one.

[rrinker]

 I'm assuming the 800mAh ones I found on Banggood are utter bullshit, seeing as how all the rest are a more reasonable 400mAh. Now, as long as the truly are the proper 9V size so they fit in my device, these are by far the best option. Higher capacity than any of the older rechargeable types. A huge complaint is how these devices (it's a wireless handheld throttle control fro model railroads) chew through batteries. These could be the sort of thing needed, IF they fit - as I said, the battery space is very tight and some brands of NiMH and NiCad batteries simply do not fit.

[HKJ]

I'm assuming the 800mAh ones I found on Banggood are utter bullshit, seeing as how all the rest are a more reasonable 400mAh.

It is probably the internal LiIon cell that is 800mAh. The one I have in queue will not get a good review, one of the cells only has half capacity.
The output voltage is close to 9.5 volt during the full discharge.
You will in a couple of weeks (I hope) find the review here: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries9V/Common9VIndividualTest%20UK.html

[LabSpokane]

He's one to talk, honestly, after what he said to you in his initial email.
I didn't see anything particularly viscous directed at him, and what *was* said only came after his email.

Frankly, I don't think he ever planned on sending you anything. I think he's just saying that now to make you feel bad.

Trust me, the response he received was mild compared to some forums I've seen. He's lucky this isn't 4chan, Reddit or Something Awful.

I don't know how you'd like to characterise viscous [sic] but you've only just suggested he was lying to Dave. 

I'll take your word the response may be mild compared to other forums. I don't think that is much of an endorsement of a community that ought to be able to rise to a greater standard since it has the technical base to support judgements based on empirical evidence.

I was by coincidence searching on "Henry IV" and the first response page showed this quote.

"We can only reason from what is; we can reason on actualities, but not on possibilities."

If someone was sending the guy death threats or burst into his company's office covered in petroleum jelly and pubes (both things other forums are guilty of) it would be one thing. But nobody here did that.

A few people emailed him, inquiring about the Batterisers he received. A couple of other people called him a mildly inappropriate name, *after* he did the same to Dave.

He's not an innocent victim. He could have simple ignored the emails he got, or told people he didn't want to be contacted. He didn't do that. He could have not attacked Dave, either, but he did...

Keep in mind I'm not defending anyone being rude to him, or anyone else. However, I'm realistic and know that, no matter where you go, there will *always* be people who are immature and rude. Always. That's life.

Finally, I didn't say he was lying. What I said was, that in my opinion, the offer was never genuine. As someone who's studied psychology, it's pretty clear (to me) what he's doing. It's a form of splitting. He's trying to position Dave against his forum members (us).

It is well past time for this to stop.

[Brumby]

I agree.

Besides, I don't believe this so-called 'psychological' assessment is valid for an internet setting.  In a face-to-face gathering of real people, maybe - but not here.  Wayne has just lumped us all together.  Simple as that.

[digsys]

  It is well past time for this to stop. 

DISAGREE ! Somewhere out there is a scammer (many in fact), and it is up to us as a learned community to hunt them down, even until hell freezes over.
There are WAY too many bogus campaigns out there, fleecing millions $s from well intentioned public. I for one, will never give up.

[Sonny_Jim]

I don't see how continuing any conversation about Wayne will be productive toward anything you just said.

Yes, there's plenty of scams, bogus campaigns, 'facts' that are just plain wrong.  Better education can help with that, not witchhunts and pitchforks.

[digsys]

I don't see how continuing any conversation about Wayne will be productive toward anything you just said.

I wasn't directing it against Wayne, but if he is in cahoots, then I don't see a problem. And NO, I don't advocate hounding him at all.

Yes, there's plenty of scams, bogus campaigns, 'facts' that are just plain wrong.  Better education can help with that, not witchhunts and pitchforks.

In my 40+ years, my opinion is, people are becoming LESS educated ! All the core maths and science is being watered down, and education by social media is a
disaster. A little knowledge can often be detrimental. Besides, I LOVE pitchforks and witchhunts :-) .. BURN them at the stake !! ahhh old times :-)

[timb]

It is well past time for this to stop.

Stop what? Am I not entitled to my opinion?

For the record I don't think Wayne, or anyone else for that matter, should be harassed. Treat others as you would be treated and all...

[EEVblog]

Stop what? Am I not entitled to my opinion?
For the record I don't think Wayne, or anyone else for that matter, should be harassed. Treat others as you would be treated and all...

There is currently one person in the world that has Batterisers in hand that is willing to communicate with us, and he's in Australia so could send me some next day if he chose. Yet many people here seems to want to keep antagonising him, even if only in a slight way

[Brumby]

Everybody is welcome to have their own opinion - but it is time to stop psychoanalyzing and speculating, especially when it's getting off the mark.

Is Wayne complicit in any of the Batteroo debacle...?  Personally, I don't think so.  His responses so far are entirely consistent with someone who has seen a product and wants to give it a go - and is getting pissed off at people who want to give him a hard time about it.

At this point, I can see a lot of the negative comments against Wayne as being a simple case of jealousy and sour grapes.... "He has a Batteroo sleeve and I don't!!".  I don't blame him for his response - the guy is getting bombarded.


When more Batteroos get out in the wild (which it seems could happen) all these speculative denigrations will be seen as just plain stupid.  For those who present them, any conscience about them being undeserved will fade quickly, but for the recipient, undeserved attacks can leave a bad taste for years.

My suggestion: Put your big girl panties on and let's keep focussed on the real subject here - the Batteroo sleeve.

[LabSpokane]

It is well past time for this to stop.

Stop what? Am I not entitled to my opinion?

For the record I don't think Wayne, or anyone else for that matter, should be harassed. Treat others as you would be treated and all...

You are entitled to your opinion.  And in my opinion, it is time for you and the rest to stop hassling Wayne and psychoanalyzing him without a license or even his permission.

The Batteriser/oo is a $400K USD energy sideshow.  Aside from the blatant misrepresentations, it is simply a complete nothing in the spectrum of badly spent money on energy projects.  The money is but a distant decimal place in the grand scheme.  The tiny sum from IndieGoGo was laughable from the outset.  Should Bob and Frankie endure some well-deserved shaming for abandoning the very tenets of their professions?  Yes.  But that has been done and is long over with.  The Batteriser will likely die a little-known curiosity that could have been useful for a very select segment of devices.

Now, as Dave has so properly stated, there is nothing left but the soap opera.  And that's all this is at this point:  entertainment, intellectual curiosity and the sheer fun of finding out what one of these sleeves will actually do.

I paid Wayne fifty bucks for the privilege of peeking underneath a Batteroo's skirt only to find that it had potting compound bloomers on.  Wayne took my money and bought part of a weekend's worth of beer for him and his buddies.  Fun was had by all. 

Enjoy the saga for what it is:  entertainment.  If I ever met Bob and Frankie at this point, I would buy beers and dinner for them if they'd let me.  Everyone has suffered enough. 

All of the personal attacks and vitriol need to stop.

Peace.

[timb]

Stop what? Am I not entitled to my opinion?
For the record I don't think Wayne, or anyone else for that matter, should be harassed. Treat others as you would be treated and all...

There is currently one person in the world that has Batterisers in hand that is willing to communicate with us, and he's in Australia so could send me some next day if he chose. Yet many people here seems to want to keep antagonising him, even if only in a slight way

That's the point I was trying to make though... For the most part, people here have actually been very nice to him! Yes, a couple of people had a rude reply, but they were the minority and didn't continue.

I just went back and read all the replies. The majority were people basically saying, "Hey, we're a community of engineers, this isn't personal towards you. We just want data."

If anything, I'd say *he's* the one that's been antagonistic, from the start in fact.

I hope he does send you a unit. In fact, I encourage him to. Based on his past communication with you and his two posts in this thread, I don't see that happening. However, I'd love to be proven wrong.

And that's my last word on this.

Edit: I don't think Wayne is "in on it" with Bateroo or anything. I never said anything like that. As for my "psychoanalysis", that was one sentence in one previous post related to one specific thing he said to Dave. I don't know why you guys are getting your panties in a twist over that. It was a valid assessment. And FFS, nobody is personally "attacking" anybody. Talk about hyperbole, Jesus...

[quad]

Another landed. I'm a little confused by what he means about "shouldn't be anonymous"

[Luminax]

I think he was referring to the "All the peoples saying they have received the items are anonymous!" remark.
Although that remark in itself confused me...
anyway... I thought I'd dissect Wayne's data, unfortunately it's not very consistent so... I guess it's back to waiting for lunar rock to landBatteroo shipment

[Brumby]

As for my "psychoanalysis", that was one sentence in one previous post related to one specific thing he said to Dave. I don't know why you guys are getting your panties in a twist over that. It was a valid assessment.

I disagree about it being a valid "assessment" - but I'll leave that aside.  What I am more concerned about is the actual posting of such a provocative statement in the first place.  What was the motivation?  What was it meant to achieve?  It was very much personal.


If you still wish to defend it, then go ahead - but I am done giving any more of my time on this irrelevance.