EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[EEVblog]

Just look at the time line for this case. This whole procedure will take 16 months. No matter who wins this one, Batteroo already lost this one. IMHO a 16 months wait is something they just cannot afford at the moment.

Does the case legally stop Batteriser shipping potentially infringing units?
Even if it didn't, doing so is near suicidal, it just adds to the infringing cost.
Even is Batteroo (and the VC's) fought this and won. It would actually take years and cost them millions to win it. I doubt Energizer wouldn't see it through till the end. They would have a whole legal team that salivate at the thought of cases like this.

[PeterL]

I still don't believe they created their own IC and don't buy the 500mA output either, never mind anything higher.

I don't believe that either.

But just take a look at what their Youtube fan posted:

So without the use of bulky caps or inductors, still a peak current of 4.5 Amp!
And they designed all this in just a few months after realizing their first version wasn't good enough.

If they really had such a design, I would recommend them selling it to NS/TI or LT, and forget about the flimsy sleeves.

[Muttley Snickers]

I just realised that if this thing goes to court they may be required under law to swear on a book not to tell porky pies, that alone might be a challenge.

[SeanB]

I just realised that if this thing goes to court they may be required under law to swear on a book not to tell porky pies, that alone might be a challenge.

Only the chump spokesperson is the one who has to do that, and as anybody knows the spokesperson is generally one who bears a very strong resemblance to Forrest Gump.

[jippie]

So did anyone predict this turn of events?

I think nobody expected "Big Battery" to really care about the device and they probably still wouldn't have if they weren't afraid for their brand name being smudged  being associated with Batterizer by consumers.

[jippie]

They do have a lot of guts to promote their product with medicial / life support devices like "heart monitors" and "emergency equipment" 

[Kjelt]

a) all the sleeves they made (which have been made according to them, just waiting on the chip?) will have to be re-done.

Naaah they will rename to "Batter" and put a sticker over the last four letters 

[Kalvin]

a) all the sleeves they made (which have been made according to them, just waiting on the chip?) will have to be re-done.

Naaah they will rename to "Batter" and put a sticker over the last four letters 

Naah, just a sticker "Batteroo" and them can be sent to backers. Unless the sticker machine gets jammed and there will be yet an another delay because of that

[madires]

And given that the Ingiegogo backers are technically financial backers of the company, this (and likely Patent failure) is news that Batteroo need to share with them.

... and not doing so in a timely manner might be an offence. It's also a strong indication for embezzlement.

[SeanB]

I wonder if the Indigogo contributors are also likely to be liable for more than they paid, as they technically can be considered to be shareholders of the company, and might be required to pay in extra to cover the settlement.

[LabSpokane]

So did anyone predict this turn of events?

I never thought that "Big Battery" would waste their time on something so petty. I'm pretty disappointed that Energizer just granted Bros. Roohparvar such undeserved credibility. Now that the device will not be allowed to fail in the open market, we're going to be listening to this "Big Battery" conspiracy garbage for decades.

[LabSpokane]

I wonder if the Indigogo contributors are also likely to be liable for more than they paid, as they technically can be considered to be shareholders of the company, and might be required to pay in extra to cover the settlement.

If Energizer tries that, they are absolutely stupid. That would generate 1000X more ill will in the market than they could ever hope to recover. If Energizer is smart, they will settle for a name change only, with no money changing hands, and be done with it.

[bitwelder]

Yes. they are so predictable...



Alexander.

I see some (involuntary?) irony in Dr. Bob closing his letter with 'Best Wishes'.
As, that's all what you backers will be left with.

[SeanB]

I wonder if the Indigogo contributors are also likely to be liable for more than they paid, as they technically can be considered to be shareholders of the company, and might be required to pay in extra to cover the settlement.

If Energizer tries that, they are absolutely stupid. That would generate 1000X more ill will in the market than they could ever hope to recover. If Energizer is smart, they will settle for a name change only, with no money changing hands, and be done with it.

I wonder just how good the separation is between the founders and the company. There is still some liability for them if it folds, they might not get off without losing more than reputation.

[LabSpokane]

I wonder if the Indigogo contributors are also likely to be liable for more than they paid, as they technically can be considered to be shareholders of the company, and might be required to pay in extra to cover the settlement.

If Energizer tries that, they are absolutely stupid. That would generate 1000X more ill will in the market than they could ever hope to recover. If Energizer is smart, they will settle for a name change only, with no money changing hands, and be done with it.

I wonder just how good the separation is between the founders and the company. There is still some liability for them if it folds, they might not get off without losing more than reputation.

In the US, the LLC is a pretty good shield against this type of stuff.  The real risk is to SK Telecom. That is the deep pocket here.

[SeanB]

I wonder if the Indigogo contributors are also likely to be liable for more than they paid, as they technically can be considered to be shareholders of the company, and might be required to pay in extra to cover the settlement.

If Energizer tries that, they are absolutely stupid. That would generate 1000X more ill will in the market than they could ever hope to recover. If Energizer is smart, they will settle for a name change only, with no money changing hands, and be done with it.

I wonder just how good the separation is between the founders and the company. There is still some liability for them if it folds, they might not get off without losing more than reputation.

In the US, the LLC is a pretty good shield against this type of stuff.  The real risk is to SK Telecom. That is the deep pocket here.

Might be, but if they can prove fraud or gross neglect then that will probably fall away and expose them direct.

[Fungus]

So did anyone predict this turn of events?

Nope.

But the Batteriser Brothers must have popped their special reserve bottle of champagne when they received that letter. It's a perfect "out" for them.

[Fungus]

a) all the sleeves they made (which have been made according to them, just waiting on the chip?) will have to be re-done.

Naaah they will rename to "Batter" and put a sticker over the last four letters 

Wonder if that's why their C-cell version had wonky lettering?

[firewalker]

Stupendously stupid move from Energizer. They are going to spoil all the fun.

Alexander.

[ErikTheNorwegian]

Stupendously stupid move from Energizer. They are going to spoil all the fun.

Alexander.

Yes, i bought a solid supply of popcorn that i will burn in with if they collaps now...

Erik

[firewalker]

I didn't had the time to read through. The problem is having the "izer" on a battery related product? I could understand it if they where using something like "DarkEnergizer". Batterizer seems totally legit to me (as a name).

Alexander.

[rollatorwieltje]

Rename the product DurexCell. It's a sleeve over a stick anyway. What could possibly go wrong.

[g.lewarne]

Rename the product DurexCell. It's a sleeve over a stick anyway. What could possibly go wrong.

Keep one in your wallet and you are then Ever Ready !

[meeder]

I didn't had the time to read through. The problem is having the "izer" on a battery related product? I could understand it if they where using something like "DarkEnergizer". Batterizer seems totally legit to me (as a name).

Alexander.

I agree, to me it is quite far fetched to sue a company based on the izer/iser part of the name.

[expertmax]

Hi fellow eevblog forum users!

I'm very sorry to start another thread about the Batteriser but it seems like the saga won't stop since now they updated their indiegogo page with a delay in shipment due to changes in the hardware and a landslide in Shen Zhen (if you believe that story).

The hardware changes

With each passing day,  we are getting closer and closer to shipping your Batterisers. As you may recall, we initially planned to ship the 500 milli-amp beta version of the Batteriser; however, we made a strategic decision to deliver Batterisers with a  new IC (Integrated circuit) capable of driving 1300 milli-amps of steady state current. We did this because the new version will make Batteriser more compatible with a wider range of devices, and we want to give our backers the absolute best final product that we believe they deserve. Unfortunately, in the construction of the updated Batteriser IC, we encountered unexpected technical fabrication process related issues which caused us to miss our estimated November shipping date. 

Article found on https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/batteriser-extend-battery-life-by-up-to-8x#/updates

Personally I don't see how changing the chip from 500 mA to 1.3 A will increase product compatibility but it seems like the Batteroo folks are trying to delay their shipping date, there's a reason why and I'll get to that in a second.

We are now thrilled to announce that we have identified and resolved our fab process issues, and  have conducted testing of the new IC, with great results. The Batteriser final assembly is underway and packaging is nearly complete.  Unfortunately, due to a tragic heavy landslide in Shenzhen, China  this week,  we are now facing additional slight delays.

OK fair enough, a landslide prevents the shipment of the product. But I investigated further and I found that the landslide was actually in a landfill zone and was about 400 meters wide. The landslide happened in a rural area of Shen Zhen and there is no company near the landslide for at least 2km. So I call this BULLS*IT.

Delays means more money in

Of course this is all so obvious, they are fighting with time and excuses to delay the release of their product. Why? Because they are still taking orders which means they are still taking money away from people. Yes one day they will have to ship their real product but it will not work as advertised and this is when their success will start to slope downwards.

If you plan to ship a product, why would you radically change your hardware if you know you will screw up your promised shipment date? They promised end-november... well we are nearing 2016 and no Batteriser in sight.

What will happen next?

Now my big question was: what will happen to the poeple on indiegogo who funded the development of the Batteriser? Do they have some sort of insurance if no product shows up? What about if the Batteriser does not work as designed/promised/advertised? Will they be able to get a refund?

One thing is for sure, Batteroo will run away with the money. After the batteriser, you will never see the name Roohparvar again and with a good reason: Dave pretty much ruined the last drop of credibility they had and that's a good thing, we don't need these kind of products on our market.

Now, what are your thoughts about this?

Let's hope people on indiegogo will have a refund if necessary and that Batteroo hits a brick wall