EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[samgab]

This Gizmodo article doesn't muck around!
http://gizmodo.com/dont-buy-the-bullshit-this-indiegogo-campaign-is-sellin-1732402971

If Batteroo are worried about my big audience, try Gizmodo 

That's a well written, down-to-earth, factual article. Well done Chris Mills for not just regurgitating the promo copy but actually doing some digging! 

[Fungus]

How do they even manufacture stuff like that?

[f4eru]

How do they even manufacture stuff like that?

similarily to MLCC capacitors :

Probably add 2/3 steps for the vias.

[Godzil]

"The wave of bad publicity led to a few changes: Batteriser changed its website and video, to remove the claim that ‘all’ batteries have 80% capacity remaining (a mistake Roohparvar told me was because of a “miscommunication” between the engineers and the “website guys”);?

The website guys made the official promo video too? 
https://youtu.be/4iEshd6izgk?t=33m52s

Weirdly enough, today's Batteriser web site implies that it's all of them:

Devices only tap into 20% of a Battary's charge before it[sic] tells you the battery is "dead". Batteriser taps into the other 80%..

I wonder if the IndieGoGo backers have been told the official numbers have gone from "8x" to "80% more" (which is only 1.8x).

...or is it 5x more (ie. going from 20% to 100%)??   I guess math isn't their strong point 

Maybe it's just that Batteroo have never done the thunderingly obvious test of actually measuring things then publishing a list like this:

Example battery life increase:

Flashlights: XX% longer
Monkeys: YY% longer...

etc.

It could be even worse, 80% of the used 20%!
So 36% of the complete battery charge!

[Wytnucls]

How do they even manufacture stuff like that?

[Fungus]

How do they even manufacture stuff like that?

similarily to MLCC capacitors : Probably add 2/3 steps for the vias.

I guess so...

[dr_frost_dk]

Let's see if this gets deleted or if they comment on it

[Halcyon]

The Roohparvar show reminds me of this great Aussie classic from the early 90's.
 

[photon]

They are at the point where they HAVE to release "something" in terms of a tangible product rather than pulling out at this late stage.

Pulling out was never an option. This isn't a couple of schmucks in a garage, it's a professional VC backed company with big names on the board of directors, with a ton of resources, money, and experience. They'll ride this donkey all the way into town, with bells on.
The biggest mistake they made was to try and defend their (ever changing) technical claims, they should have just kept quiet and most likely everyone would have forgotten all about it.

Batteries seem to be a current hot button for VC's. Here's a VC funded company with a 9 volt battery with micro and wi-fi for $36. http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1327736

[Godzil]

They are at the point where they HAVE to release "something" in terms of a tangible product rather than pulling out at this late stage.

Pulling out was never an option. This isn't a couple of schmucks in a garage, it's a professional VC backed company with big names on the board of directors, with a ton of resources, money, and experience. They'll ride this donkey all the way into town, with bells on.
The biggest mistake they made was to try and defend their (ever changing) technical claims, they should have just kept quiet and most likely everyone would have forgotten all about it.

Batteries seem to be a current hot button for VC's. Here's a VC funded company with a 9 volt battery with micro and wi-fi for $36. http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1327736

What the?!

Why install that in the battery and not in the smoke alarm? How can a stupid 9V battery can detect that the alarm is ringing?

That even more stupid than the batteriser :/

[firewalker]

Something tells me they are going to edit or pull their videos with the 800% claim...

Alexander.

[edy]

I received this email from Batteriser... still misleading.

[edy]

Who exactly is Blomgren and was he actually associated ever with Eveready Batteries? And what is Imara Corp and is this the same guy?

[McBryce]

He's a "rent-an-expert", consult who is also on the bat-board, but supposedly he did actually work for Union Carbide. Here he is in action: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/battery-expert-i-would-not-fly-in-a-dreamliner/

McBryce.

[Wytnucls]

Who exactly is Blomgren and was he actually associated ever with Eveready Batteries? And what is Imara Corp and is this the same guy?

http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2009/12/09/turning-out-the-lights-imara-a-lithium-ion-battery-maker/

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi Group,

Here is some of the latest comments on the Batteriser IGG Campaign:

This is their response to the comment that drew their attention to the Gizmodo article:



Their comments on the Video posted by TechnologyCatalyst (Forum Member 5ky)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1662&v=bw_jFIPxePc

Ali claims that the results are suspect, because the G3 should not last 17 hours:




And to top it off, questions about the Monkey:



This comment links Ali directly to the Batteriser Fan Page.

Jay_Diddy_B

[EEVblog]

http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2009/12/09/turning-out-the-lights-imara-a-lithium-ion-battery-maker/

That list of VC backed companies gone belly-up is impressive, and just the tip of the iceberg of course.
And of course, if you are the founder of such a company, instead of getting a bad rep, it seems to be a badge of honour and easier to get your next VC idea funded.
No wonder many people can spend their entire career going from one failed startup to the next, on someone else's dime. Good gig if you can get it I guess.

[EEVblog]

Ali claims that the results are suspect, because the G3 should not last 17 hours:

They can prove this beyond doubt, just do a proper time-lapse video.
And anyone else can verify it too.
This is not a matter of opinion, it's one of demonstrable quantifiable provable fact.

[Fungus]

Who exactly is Blomgren and was he actually associated ever with Eveready Batteries? And what is Imara Corp and is this the same guy?

Notice how everybody on their board is "former president of...whatever", ie. nobody the companies thought was worth keeping (assuming they didn't go bust).

[apis]

Nice to see that Gizmodo article. I suspect Gizmodo have about the same target audience as batteriser is trying to fool.

Meanwhile I've discovered a real battery problem here at home: my wireless mouse drains my batteries to literally zero volts, and this appears to harm the NiMh batteries I use with it (one even had inverted polarity when I measured it!) I wouldn't have noticed if not for all these battery videos. I suppose I need to come up with some sort of low voltage cut-off circuit for it.

[Fungus]

Ali claims that the results are suspect, because the G3 should not last 17 hours:

They can prove this beyond doubt, just do a proper time-lapse video.
And anyone else can verify it too.
This is not a matter of opinion, it's one of demonstrable quantifiable provable fact.

I think Ali is my favorite of the Batteroo Brothers. Very quotable.

[photon]

http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2009/12/09/turning-out-the-lights-imara-a-lithium-ion-battery-maker/

That list of VC backed companies gone belly-up is impressive, and just the tip of the iceberg of course.
And of course, if you are the founder of such a company, instead of getting a bad rep, it seems to be a badge of honour and easier to get your next VC idea funded.
No wonder many people can spend their entire career going from one failed startup to the next, on someone else's dime. Good gig if you can get it I guess.

Losing millions of dollars is going to hurt a lot of people and cost them their jobs. But some are so politically astute that they can successfully reflect blame and survive. These are the dangerous ones, but I do think they eventually get their due rep wise.

[LabSpokane]

Ali claims that the results are suspect, because the G3 should not last 17 hours:

They can prove this beyond doubt, just do a proper time-lapse video.
And anyone else can verify it too.
This is not a matter of opinion, it's one of demonstrable quantifiable provable fact.

And once again, those not in the profession neither understand nor account for engineering safety factors. When I write "operates 15 hours" on a specification, I'm going to damned well make sure I have enough headroom to make it.

Of course the GPS runs 17 hours with fresh Duracells at room temperature. It's SUPPOSED TO!!!!!

 

[apis]

Well, from the Battero perspective and according to the other Batteriser logic it makes perfect sense to claim something runs 15 hours when in reality it was only 2... I suppose it's understandable Roohparvar finds it hard to believe any product could possibly be better than the manufacturers specs. 

[EEVblog]

That response from Batteriser just makes me want to go and get one of these GPS's and repeat the test myself...