FranLab is getting evicted

[SiliconWizard]

$149k for 4000sqft garage workshop on 0.5acre of land in what looks like a realtively nice suburban neighborhood. Some elbow grease required. 1hr from Philly
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/?

  Wow! I just looked at the pictures and if I was in that area, I would JUMP on that! Those are real wood floors, probably hard wood floors, in the garage! And it has a huge four door garage and with a sliding door on the end and a sliding door on the side that gives access to the 2nd floor as well. And it looks like it was build when they really knew how to build well. And she'd be getting huge lot. I think that she might be able to sell off the upper part of that lot to someone else for a home site if she wanted to. The shed appears to be full of old boards but my guess is that that is probably all hard wood and would be quite valuable to wood workers. Fran could probably sell the lumber, tear down the shed and sell that side of the extra as well.  If Fran would get that place and put her other projects on hold for a year or two while she fixed it up, I think she'd have a very nice place to live and to work, and could potentially make a LOT of money if she ever sold it. And look at the size of it's lot compared to the lots around it in the aerial view.  Every property that I've seen in any large US metropolitan area in recent years that has a large lot is now bringing a super premium. Like James-s said, the lots are sometimes worth far more than the homes.

If that is the case, then why didn't the property sell yet? 

99.9% of the market want a house, and probably 90% of those want a renovated house.
This is giant run down old barn that is useless, and would cost a fair bit to knock down and remove it all to build a house.
Add in a depressed market and it's no surprise it's not seling fast and they have dropped the price.

Absolutely. The market is depressed and the house as it is is for niche projects. And it's pretty much addressing the opposite of the gentrification trend that had been going on. So no wonder at all.
It's a right fit for small businesses though and people willing to do some work.

[EEVblog]

Absolutely. The market is depressed and the house as it is is for niche projects.

In this case it doesn't even have a single toilet, and no kitchen, it's essentially just a big barn.
I'd kill for a place like this near my home, or having land big enough to build something.

[SiliconWizard]

Absolutely. The market is depressed and the house as it is is for niche projects.

In this case it doesn't even have a single toilet, and no kitchen, it's essentially just a big barn.
I'd kill for a place like this near my home, or having land big enough to build something.

For an additional $20k and some work, I'm sure you can get a bathroom and kitchen done.

[james_s]

For an additional $20k and some work, I'm sure you can get a bathroom and kitchen done.

Yes but most people don't want this, they want a house that is all ready to move into. People get excited over the dumbest stuff, have you ever seen one of those house hunter shows? They fall in love with granite countertops in the kitchen or the flooring, nobody even notices the important stuff like the structure, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, etc. It's just silly cosmetic stuff they go nuts over.

[EEVblog]

Absolutely. The market is depressed and the house as it is is for niche projects.

In this case it doesn't even have a single toilet, and no kitchen, it's essentially just a big barn.
I'd kill for a place like this near my home, or having land big enough to build something.

For an additional $20k and some work, I'm sure you can get a bathroom and kitchen done.

Yep, but the thing is almost nobody wants to do that.
You'd have the be in Fran's position of being single without a family and be specifically looking for like 90% lab/workshop space and 10% living space.
Sadly I know Fran isn't going to be the least bit interested in this, it's Philly (and very specific parts of Philly) or bust.
There are actually run down 2000sqft places in Philly for this price or even less, but you'd probably need to build automated gun turrets 

Even warehouse spaces I've suggested in Philly have been instantly rebuked.
But I still just enjoy looking even if I'm not going suggest them to her any more.

[SiliconWizard]

Maybe she'll eventually embrace the idea. May require some time to sink in.
Also, if she's really afraid of leaving Philly, 1h away looks like too much, but maybe she can find something a bit closer. A 20 min commute, if she really still wants to live in Philly, could work. She could rent an affordable place just as a home for a fraction of what she pays now, and have ample space for work.

[james_s]

I almost wonder if she wants to fail for some reason, I just can't think of any other reason for someone to be *that* rigid. Maintaining the status quo CANNOT work, the places she wants simply no longer exist and they are never coming back. Change sucks, but it is one of the few things you can count on.

[tom66]

Absolutely. The market is depressed and the house as it is is for niche projects.

In this case it doesn't even have a single toilet, and no kitchen, it's essentially just a big barn.
I'd kill for a place like this near my home, or having land big enough to build something.

Don't know specifically about US mortgages, but in the UK you can only get a residential mortgage on a property if the property has: working plumbing (at least one sink and one bath/shower), working toilet, provision for electrical power, and at least one form of cooking appliance (microwave doesn't count.)  It must meet the "minimum standard" of being somewhere someone could live.  So in some of these places you will literally see a toilet plumbed into the living room and a knackered old cooker left behind because that means it can be sold to someone with a mortgage.

[rsjsouza]

Indeed. In a place like this I suspect you need to go all in cash. The mortgage appraiser is king in this process and such rundown place would be hard to evaluate from the bank's perspective: no infrastructure, no livable area, thus leading to only a handful of comps. This might be another reason why it hasn't sold yet: the bank might be simply lowballing their appraisal value.

[james_s]

1970s stuff however I'm not that fond of.

I love the 70s. My house was built in 1979 and is mostly original. I like 70s architecture, light fixtures, lamps, furniture and almost everything else. It is the stuff I remember from my childhood and it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. The 80s had some good stuff, but I'm much less a fan of 80s light fixtures, too much brass and crystal.

[james_s]

Don't know specifically about US mortgages, but in the UK you can only get a residential mortgage on a property if the property has: working plumbing (at least one sink and one bath/shower), working toilet, provision for electrical power, and at least one form of cooking appliance (microwave doesn't count.)  It must meet the "minimum standard" of being somewhere someone could live.  So in some of these places you will literally see a toilet plumbed into the living room and a knackered old cooker left behind because that means it can be sold to someone with a mortgage.

Silly rules like that annoy me. When my friend's house was renovated after a fire he had a subpanel installed in the garage to wire up later. To pass the inspection though there was a minimum requirement of at least one circuit wired to something from the panel so the electrician installed a useless light socket on the wall next to the panel and wired it up to a single breaker. It was completely pointless to have a light there on its own dedicated circuit but it checked all the boxes for the inspector to sign off on it.

[EEVblog]

Don't know specifically about US mortgages, but in the UK you can only get a residential mortgage on a property if the property has: working plumbing (at least one sink and one bath/shower), working toilet, provision for electrical power, and at least one form of cooking appliance (microwave doesn't count.)  It must meet the "minimum standard" of being somewhere someone could live.  So in some of these places you will literally see a toilet plumbed into the living room and a knackered old cooker left behind because that means it can be sold to someone with a mortgage.

That's also the case here I believe (or was), you can't get a loan for just land. You have the have a signed loan/land package if it's not built yet, or some equivalent plan in place to build.

[SiliconWizard]

If I had the money I would pay 20 chinese immigrants $2500 each to build us an underground bunker. That or an island made from garbage.

This above ground stuff confuses me and I've always felt at home amongst garbage.

 

[Nusa]

If I had the money I would pay 20 chinese immigrants $2500 each to build us an underground bunker. That or an island made from garbage.

This above ground stuff confuses me and I've always felt at home amongst garbage.

Or build a concrete bunker above ground (less likely to flooded and you don't have to pump sewage out of the pit either) and hire one guy with a bulldozer to build a hill on top of you.

[SiliconWizard]

Sometimes the garbage is not outside, but inside of you.

[Nominal Animal]

Sometimes the garbage is not outside, but inside of you.

Are you referring to my mind or my digestive system?

I have a friend who believes humans Finns should all live in urban areas.  I happen to disagree, having lived in both rural and urban areas.  My friend has not, and I believe it shows in his basis for his opinion.

Similarly, I wonder how much of Fran's rejection of all but central Philly options is because that's what she is used to?  How much of her objections and rejections are just a shield against any change?  That, perhaps, changing the situation now would be admitting that her original choice of Philly was not based on rational or objective reasons, but for emotive reasons based on assumptions and feelings; and re-evaluating those now, would feel like admitting defeat or error?  Perhaps feel like it would be admitting wasting years of her life there?

I'm an avid advocate of such self-reflection, and before you point it out, yes, I too can see I am projecting some of my own thoughts on Fran here.  In some ways, I'm in a similar situation, living near the center of a largeish city.  I'm almost 50 myself, no dependants.  In other ways, I don't have over-large expenses or anything like that, and am just pondering where I myself might be/become happiest.  The things that seem initially important and first come to my mind, tend to crumble to insignificance and reveal just 'force of habit' and 'crude superficial assumptions'.

[Bud]

I rarely use emoticons, but this one appears to be very appropriate to describe this thread.  Here it is ---> 

[EEVblog]

I'm an avid advocate of such self-reflection, and before you point it out, yes, I too can see I am projecting some of my own thoughts on Fran here.  In some ways, I'm in a similar situation, living near the center of a largeish city.  I'm almost 50 myself, no dependants.  In other ways, I don't have over-large expenses or anything like that, and am just pondering where I myself might be/become happiest.  The things that seem initially important and first come to my mind, tend to crumble to insignificance and reveal just 'force of habit' and 'crude superficial assumptions'.

We just spent a few weeks on a large property, and Mrs EEVblog has always flat out rejected moving home for a multitude of reasons. All legit of course. Just streets away from her parents, she loves her home, kids love the home, neighbours are great, close to transport for her work, almost every service we need a stones throw away, etc.

But I just saw the first chink in the armour, and I now think she's not totally against moving to a bigger property. Nearby of course, so the kids can still go the same school and she can still get to work.
So cue the next crypto boom and you might find me doing build videos constructing a gigantic backyard lab 
Of course if we really wanted to we could sell the home and the lab and storage units and move into a bigger place, but that's one of those massive commitment steps you'd never take unless you really had to. Too easy to just tweak our little slice of existing comfort.

In Fran's case I think drastic change will only come if the Patreon income collapses.

[tautech]

I rarely use emoticons, but this one appears to be very appropriate to describe this thread.  Here it is ---> 

Yeah that's what happens when you lead a horse to water and it just won't drink.

[sokoloff]

The horse will drink when it’s thirsty enough; until then, let it be…

[nctnico]

I'm an avid advocate of such self-reflection, and before you point it out, yes, I too can see I am projecting some of my own thoughts on Fran here.  In some ways, I'm in a similar situation, living near the center of a largeish city.  I'm almost 50 myself, no dependants.  In other ways, I don't have over-large expenses or anything like that, and am just pondering where I myself might be/become happiest.  The things that seem initially important and first come to my mind, tend to crumble to insignificance and reveal just 'force of habit' and 'crude superficial assumptions'.

We just spent a few weeks on a large property, and Mrs EEVblog has always flat out rejected moving home for a multitude of reasons. All legit of course. Just streets away from her parents, she loves her home, kids love the home, neighbours are great, close to transport for her work, almost every service we need a stones throw away, etc.

But I just saw the first chink in the armour, and I now think she's not totally against moving to a bigger property. Nearby of course, so the kids can still go the same school and she can still get to work.
So cue the next crypto boom and you might find me doing build videos constructing a gigantic backyard lab 
Of course if we really wanted to we could sell the home and the lab and storage units and move into a bigger place, but that's one of those massive commitment steps you'd never take unless you really had to. Too easy to just tweak our little slice of existing comfort.

Keep in mind that having a bigger place also means more cleaning &upkeep to do. Your kids will move out at some point and then you just have a lot of space just sitting there that needs to be kept tidy either way. The latter will be more difficult when you get older.

Originally I had the plan to move to a bigger home at some point but other stuff got in the way. Nowadays I could get a mortgage for a much bigger place but my kids are almost at the age that they'll move out and then the extra space really isn't needed. I've also put quite a bit of work into upgrading our current home. Yes, having land for a big shed would be nice but I think I'll help my youngest son to get a plot of land to built a home AND a big shed on (so I can use it as well).

[Psi]

Keep in mind that having a bigger place also means more cleaning &upkeep to do. Your kids will move out at some point and then you just have a lot of space just sitting there that needs to be kept tidy either way. The latter will be more difficult when you get older.

Typically you move again at that point back to a smaller place, and you end up with cash left over that you can do other things with.
So not really an issue.

[EEVblog]

Keep in mind that having a bigger place also means more cleaning &upkeep to do. Your kids will move out at some point and then you just have a lot of space just sitting there that needs to be kept tidy either way. The latter will be more difficult when you get older.

Originally I had the plan to move to a bigger home at some point but other stuff got in the way. Nowadays I could get a mortgage for a much bigger place but my kids are almost at the age that they'll move out and then the extra space really isn't needed. I've also put quite a bit of work into upgrading our current home. Yes, having land for a big shed would be nice but I think I'll help my youngest son to get a plot of land to built a home AND a big shed on (so I can use it as well).

You don't need much to build a big shed. Our land is 750sqm. Even 1200sqm would be enough if the land and house is proportioned right.
In Australia kids don't usually don't leave home for university, it's not a thing here. So we have a good 15 years left at least before that's likely to happen.

[nctnico]

Keep in mind that having a bigger place also means more cleaning &upkeep to do. Your kids will move out at some point and then you just have a lot of space just sitting there that needs to be kept tidy either way. The latter will be more difficult when you get older.

Typically you move again at that point back to a smaller place, and you end up with cash left over that you can do other things with.
So not really an issue.

The thing is that my home is in a super good location. I doubt I find something similar somewhere else and it will be paid off in a couple of years. I don't really want to move and have to arrange everything to my liking again. I have moved 4 times in my life already and I'm done moving. Next place for me is a grave or nursing home. I could be persuaded to buy a vacation home in a warm country to spend a couple of weeks per year in (and rent it out for the rest of the year).

[bson]

How do you climb a mountain? One step at a time... I really dislike people with a "can't do, impossible job, will fail" attitude. With such an attitude you won't get far and keep paying through the nose to have something done you can easely do yourself.

Or swim across the Pacific Ocean - one stroke at a time.  At least until you're out in the middle and your muscles are too exhausted to continue.  So no, everything can't be done by just taking one step at a time, there has to be some consideration of what's actually physically possible.  While underestimating your ability prevents getting it done, overestimating can get you in serious trouble - people die thinking they can do what they can't.