I guess I am just confused by the somewhat provocative and sensational subject line Dave used. My understanding of the term "hobbyist" matched what wikipedia defines: "Generally speaking, a person who engages in an activity solely for fun is called a 'hobbyist', whereas a 'professional' generally engages in an activity for reward and an 'amateur' (from French for "lover of") does so out of personal interest in an activity. While an amateur may be as skilled as a professional, a professional receives compensation while an amateur generally does not." So by definition, a hobbyist can not be useless since he is doing stuff for his own pleasure.
Some qualified people should not be in the business, the hobbyist will always come out on top if you go for a comparable skills competition. Some people do stuff for fun and to make it the best. Others will muddle through because they are paid but don't really give a shit.I think perhaps you haven't really come across many capable and well qualified people. They are out there, and your eyes would be opened if you worked with one.
Some qualified people should not be in the business, the hobbyist will always come out on top if you go for a comparable skills competition. Some people do stuff for fun and to make it the best. Others will muddle through because they are paid but don't really give a shit.I think perhaps you haven't really come across many capable and well qualified people. They are out there, and your eyes would be opened if you worked with one.
Some qualified people should not be in the business, the hobbyist will always come out on top if you go for a comparable skills competition. Some people do stuff for fun and to make it the best. Others will muddle through because they are paid but don't really give a shit.I think perhaps you haven't really come across many capable and well qualified people. They are out there, and your eyes would be opened if you worked with one.
Precisely.
Such people can technically point the project in the right direction so that the subsequent detailed elaboration and implementation occurs speedily and without hitches.
They can prevent people going down blind alleys and producting things that sort-of-work when the wind is in the right direction.
When people are flailing around not understanding why something isn't working, they can see the theoretical cause and possible solutions.
They can prevent bodged "solutions".
Theory without practice is mental masturbation.
Practice without theory is merely alchemical magic.
Some qualified people should not be in the business, the hobbyist will always come out on top if you go for a comparable skills competition. Some people do stuff for fun and to make it the best. Others will muddle through because they are paid but don't really give a shit.I think perhaps you haven't really come across many capable and well qualified people. They are out there, and your eyes would be opened if you worked with one.
Precisely.
Such people can technically point the project in the right direction so that the subsequent detailed elaboration and implementation occurs speedily and without hitches.
They can prevent people going down blind alleys and producting things that sort-of-work when the wind is in the right direction.
When people are flailing around not understanding why something isn't working, they can see the theoretical cause and possible solutions.
They can prevent bodged "solutions".
Theory without practice is mental masturbation.
Practice without theory is merely alchemical magic.
Sorry to smash your world to bits but what stops a hobbyist and self taught person learning a good deal of theory ? since when does a text book tell you how to design a complete practical system ? if your mind is closed and can't work, it just won't happen. Hence some of the "text book" implementations I have seen that do not work in the real world.
How many times have I come to this forum to ask advice and gone away much wiser, many don't have this capability of seeking peers advice. Even our experienced and competent new replacement has been on here asking advice, because the most powerful thing of all is to understand that you may not have all of the answers and know when to ask for help or others similar experiences.........
Absolutely nothing "stops a hobbyist and self taught person learning a good deal of theory". You will not find anything I have said which indicates that I might have such an mistaken belief. Hence your point is a mere "strawman argument".
FWIW, I have met some such people, and greatly respect them. Just as I respect those that have a good understanding of theory.
Do you respect people with a good understanding of theory? If not then it would be hard to differentiate your views from mere (and ignorable) inverted snobbery
I think qualified and quality don't got hand in hand.
... I have nothing against qualifications and am starting to study them myself ...
... I have nothing against qualifications and am starting to study them myself ...
Revealing, and now I understand your limited view of the world. (Everybody's view is, of course, limited).
I hope that, as you progress, you will come to value "pure theory" not only for itself, but also for the way it can shape and guide practice.
But in reality basic electronics design it's pretty much an all or nothing skillset. i.e. someone who can design a decent circuit will almost certainly have skills in laying out a board and building and testing. You are unlikely to find someone who can test and troubleshoot and lay out boards, but can't design basic building block circuits for example.
Ok, but someone might be crap at documentation for example, or firmware, well that can be taught and/or not necessary.
I etched my first PCB while I was in high school by following examples I read about in hobby electronics magazines such as Popular Electronics and learned a great deal from such luminaries as Don Lancaster. This was back around 1969-70, or so. I got my first job at Mouser Electronics (back when it was a small import company based in Lakeside California) by identifying electronic components on a board. The job was for a warehouse picker, but I did so well on the test that I got to meet the founder, Jerry Mouser, who gave me a job designing educational electronic kits to sell to schools in their catalog. I had to design the circuits (mostly adapted from magazine articles), etch the PCBs, write, typeset and print the manuals and then package the finished kits. I was 19 at the time and had no formal training other than being a "hobbyist".
Wayne
You don't need to know Ohms law to make an Arduino board play a tune.
This makes me sad. I hang out in the Arduino forums, and I see this a lot. People coming in and wanting to build something, with no knowledge of Ohm's Law, or Kirchoff's Voltage and Current Laws, and no interest in learning them. They want to just write some code and plug jumpers in.