EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[SeanB]

Absolutely, I would like to see even a preproduction sample, and if potted a quick postal trip to Mike or Fraser would result in them going back with a full set of Xray images, totally untouched.

The idea is sound for the product, just the actual general purpose implementation is not really possible to do in the form factor and with it still complying with the full range of uses a single AA or AAA cell has the ability to be used in, with currents ranging from microamps to tens of amperes all drawn from the same nominal cell size. As a retofit for inferior design on equipment it is a great idea, but a real niche product then.

[6581]

Thank you Wayne for posting. I found your story and background interesting and even though I hope you'd reconsider cooperative testing with Dave J. - I can totally understand your sentiments - I think you deserved a more respectful "treatment" than you got (it's kind of unfair to draw anyone to anything they're not interested to participate in) - and personally in your shoes, I'd have been stressed and perhaps a bit angry. Thanks again for posting on EEblog forums.

[SL4P]

Absolutely, I would like to see even a preproduction sample, and if potted a quick postal trip to Mike or Fraser would result in them going back with a full set of Xray images, totally untouched.

Just be careful how far you go disclosing BatterPoo's IP.
Testing, reviewing and evaluating product in the wild is fine, but X-Ray and reverse engineering of pre-pro samples may put you in some deep doo-doo (or is that poo-poo?)

[johndoe123]

5.   In November last year I started hounding them about being a potential reseller in the Northern Territory – I never got any responses but kept trying – in April this year I got an email back and that resulted in a conference call to have a discussion 

If you have to make a down payment, just make sure the product has been shipped to several other resellers first and the product is established. Otherwise, chances are good that you never receive the product or get your money back!

[EEVblog]

Wayne, you are reacting a bit emotional, but it is understandable because of the reaction of Dave's crowd But if you want to know the obvious benefit to the average consumer and whether it is a viable product, you should really send Dave some sleeves. He can do all sorts of tests and even summarize in simple words if it has some benefit to the average consumer.

I've asked Wayne again about getting a few of his units, but no response. Doesn't sound like he wants to part with them for whatever reason, and that's fine.

[EEVblog]

Absolutely, I would like to see even a preproduction sample, and if potted a quick postal trip to Mike or Fraser would result in them going back with a full set of Xray images, totally untouched.

Xray shots aren't going to show anything useful, surely?
The potting and any chip encapsulate needs to be dissolved to get a good die photo.

[EEVblog]

Absolutely, I would like to see even a preproduction sample, and if potted a quick postal trip to Mike or Fraser would result in them going back with a full set of Xray images, totally untouched.

Just be careful how far you go disclosing BatterPoo's IP.
Testing, reviewing and evaluating product in the wild is fine, but X-Ray and reverse engineering of pre-pro samples may put you in some deep doo-doo (or is that poo-poo?)

Nope, reverse engineering a product for educational and review purposes is just fine.
No encryption is being broken, there is no intent for money to be made etc.

[EEVblog]

PS: Wayne, if you need any help with an off-grid project then this is a good place to ask.

We have a whole section on renewable energy:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/renewable-energy/

[quad]

Latest from IGG comments. There is a call for an unboxing video. That'd get a fair few hits on YouTube I reckon, especially if they sent over one to Dave and he linked back to that video to say "thank you!" An excellent promo opportunity for anyone out there who is among the first to get a Batteriser!!

[EEVblog]

Edit: oh, Dave needs to advise if he needs more than one to test.

I could get by on one unit of course, that would allow me to measure the efficiency performance curves under all current loads (probably the first thing I'd do).
Ideally I'd solder wires onto the unit to do that, but could do it without damage if I had to.
Two units would be better as a lot of products are 2xAA

And of course if I had my own unit one would be depotted (as much as I am able, I'm not set up to do that sort of chemical stuff)

[EEVblog]

Latest from IGG comments. There is a call for an unboxing video. That'd get a fair few hits on YouTube I reckon, especially if they sent over one to Dave and he linked back to that video to say "thank you!" An excellent promo opportunity for anyone out there who is among the first to get a Batteriser!!

ANNOUNCEMENT:

I will pay $100 up front to get my hands on some units, including courier delivery or whatever it takes, plus the revenue from the first video I do (typically $1.50/1000 views). Or I can donate the video ad revenue proceeds to your favourite charity.
I promise to do fair and unbiased testing (people expect nothing less of course)
Obviously some will find their way into my hands eventually, but I don't hold out hope of that being any time soon, as all evidence points to ward the claim of "around 30%" of the backers units shipped according to what they told Wayne being a lie.
It's a shame Wayne didn't take me up on the offer, I could have had them by now.

Offer available only to the first taker.

[Smokey]

...
Anyway, this is my last comment on the subject
...
All the best, Wayne.

I hope he keeps his word.

He is EXACTLY the target audience for this product.  100%...  Perfect... Match...

You guys should move on.  Might as well be selling Richard Dawkins books at a bible study class. 

If they shipped some to this guy, more might show up.  Hopefully to someone who wasn't pre-screened.

[jonovid]

I promise to do fair and unbiased testing (people expect nothing less of course)

more Monkeys ? 

a must see the video, EEVblog #789  if any haven't seen it yet.

[Kalvin]

Funny thing here is that Batteroo haven't provided any technical data whatsoever to back their extraordinary claims, although they are producing the Batterisers and even shipping the devices to some individuals. Hopefully Dave will get some Batterisers so that he will be able to provide actual measurement data and numerical facts.

[Blocco]

What's even funnier is that anyone with a little knowledge could have easily tested the viability of the idea for well under $100 on their kitchen table. But rather than doing this, Bob Rhubarb has spent $400,000 dollars (that we know of) of other people's money on tooling and custom chips only to find that the performance falls so far short of his original claims that he is too embarrassed to publish any real test data.

[Fungus]

.... may put you in some deep doo-doo (or is that poo-poo?)

"roo-par"

[Fungus]

Xray shots aren't going to show anything useful, surely?

And what's to see? A tiny inductor, a tiny chip, a tiny capacitor or two. No real information there.

[Fungus]

I hope he keeps his word.

He is EXACTLY the target audience for this product.  100%...  Perfect... Match...

You guys should move on.  Might as well be selling Richard Dawkins books at a bible study class. 

I don't want to scare Wayne away if he reads this but that's my feeling too. Somebody who wants to live "off-grid" in a distant place. Somebody who took over an hour (by his own admission) to figure out how to upload a photo to facebook. Somebody with only very rudimentary knowledge of electronics. Somebody who wants to make money and will convince himself they work.

why would Energizer sue them if there was no chance it would work?

...somebody who's also into conspiracy theories.

Remember: Dave is in the pay of Big Battery!  (according to Bob)

Why did I write that rude email to Dave?
Simple really: I made one comment on Indiegogo to say that I’d received my batteroo order and that they do increase the voltage of batteries – next minute everybody’s flogging the shit out of me? – this blog, emails, phone calls – WTF – and then to top it off, Dave back door’s me with an email offering to buy them all at some inflated price.

... and somebody who'd actually think that Dave told other people to go and harass him (so he could get his hands on the Golden Batterisers? How does that even work?)

I’m not some dumb gullible fuck!

Quite.

Evil Bob chose well, methinks.

PS: Wayne... just watch a few of Dave's videos at random, particularly the "mailbag" videos. That'll tell you everything you need to know about what sort of person Dave is.

[quad]

Shipping summary 28/11/16:

7 reports of receiving Batteriser
1 report of tracking number

If you have a Batteriser right now, you're in a unique position to benefit yourself or your chosen charity financially (see announcement above). Anonymously if you'd prefer.

Of course, this only relevant while a small number of people have Batterisers. Once they go out to even a few more people, there is no doubt they'll make their way to Dave - some people will probably even ship it Express and give it to Dave for free because they want to see the video! (have you seen what people send in to his mailbag?!)

If you have a Batteriser, I urge you to reach out and strike a deal with Dave ASAP

[EEVblog]

Of course, this only relevant while a small number of people have Batterisers. Once they go out to even a few more people, there is no doubt they'll make their way to Dave - some people will probably even ship it Express and give it to Dave for free because they want to see the video! (have you seen what people send in to his mailbag?!)
If you have a Batteriser, I urge you to reach out and strike a deal with Dave ASAP

I expect a flood of Battrisers to arrive in the Mailbag   
I've gotten quite excited every time I see a pickup card in my PO box recently...

[EEVblog]

Again I have made an offer to Wayne, see if he takes it.

He said he might have sent me some originally if he hadn't have seen the personal attacks on the forum, so thanks everyone who did that.

[SL4P]

[quote author=EEVblog link=topic=48950.msg1079736#msg1079736 date=1480294560
I expect a flood of Battrisers to arrive in the Mailbag   
I've gotten quite excited every time I see a pickup card in my PO box recently...
[/quote]
You could help Boob out here... bring his fantasy to fruition.
Use EIGHT baaterpoos on eight cells, to get eight times the life of a single cell without a sleeve.
(You'll possibly have BatterPoos than he has!

[timb]

Again I have made an offer to Wayne, see if he takes it.

He said he might have sent me some originally if he hadn't have seen the personal attacks on the forum, so thanks everyone who did that.

He's one to talk, honestly, after what he said to you in his initial email.
I didn't see anything particularly viscous directed at him, and what *was* said only came after his email.

Frankly, I don't think he ever planned on sending you anything. I think he's just saying that now to make you feel bad.

Trust me, the response he received was mild compared to some forums I've seen. He's lucky this isn't 4chan, Reddit or Something Awful.

[ez24]

Has anyone considered that Wayne might have a NDA with Bob.  Makes sense because Wayne was sent prototypes and Wayne wants to be a distributor.  I do not think it would be a good idea to have prototypes tested.

[digsys]

Dear Wayne. Welcome to the Internet and social media. Guess what, EVERYONE is subject to attack and unjustified abuse !! It's how the beast works !
Many hide behind anonymity, which gives them carte-blanche to spew whatever garbage they like.
Even the most learned engineers here on this site are occasionally subject to it, no-one on the planet is exempt. But I promise you, engineering sites like this are
FAAAR more civil than most !! AND, irrespective of what type of site / forum you visit, IF you go there flinging shlt, especially as a newbie, don't be surprised by what
is returned. That is the same as in RW. Yes, a few inappropriate comments were made, and you'll learn to ignore them or simply post a non-provacative reply.
If you don't grow some balls, and learn from this, I'm afraid social media (forums) are not for you.
And believe it or not, should you come back requiring help on your other projects, very few will hold a grudge (whom you ignore). It's up to you.

... He said he might have sent me some originally if he hadn't have seen the personal attacks on the forum, so thanks everyone who did that.

The beast is what it is. He may have sent you some. They may exist. Worst case, if they do exist, we'll have to wait a few more days.
We've waited this long, a few days won't kill us :-)