Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[0xdeadbeef]

Very adult of you to switch to your fake account to support yourself.
Anyway, where exactly are these limitations stated? The only thing I could find in the SDS2000X+ datasheet is the phrase "horizontal measurements can process up to 1000 signal edges within one single frame" - but how does that explain a limitation to 200k edges?

[thinkfat]

The pot is full with a delicious soup, everyone is satisfied.

Only one is looking for the hair in the soup that doesn't exist. The one has to buy the soup he thinks there is no hair in the soup, even if it costs 10 to 20 times more than the tasty, cheap soup the others taste.

It's important to know the limits of the instrument you're using, wouldn't you agree? Especially for statistics, it's important to understand the sample size that is the base for the computation. Only then can you know if the instrument fits the intended use.

Reading the data sheet helps and then you can buy a device, there are the 30 or 45 days test period at Welectron. There you can try everything and return it if you don't like it. 

The data sheet is sufficient only if it lists _all_ of the limits of the instrument. But this is never the case. I don't need to buy one myself and go through the hassle of testing every aspect if someone has done that already and shared the results. This is what is happening here. I'm very grateful for this and others will be, too. This is the true value of discussions like this. It's also of immense value for the manufacturers, if they spend the time following.

Nobody here (well, the majority at least) is trying to "find the hair in the soup". This is what you don't seem to understand.

[2N3055]

Instead or arguing about how we disagree in our worldviews, back to the topic..

On both Keysight and Picoscope (I don't have Rigol available anymore), you can set thresholds (on Keysight relative and absolute, on Picoscope absolute) of how measurements are done. So if thresholds are wrong, it won't count properly. Could that be the case here?

[tautech]

Instead or arguing about how we disagree in our worldviews, back to the topic..

On both Keysight and Picoscope (I don't have Rigol available anymore), you can set thresholds (on Keysight relative and absolute, on Picoscope absolute) of how measurements are done. So if thresholds are wrong, it won't count properly. Could that be the case here?

Of course even a marginally set trigger level will affect measurement results however luckily only rookies make such basic mistakes. 

[nctnico]

Instead or arguing about how we disagree in our worldviews, back to the topic..

On both Keysight and Picoscope (I don't have Rigol available anymore), you can set thresholds (on Keysight relative and absolute, on Picoscope absolute) of how measurements are done. So if thresholds are wrong, it won't count properly. Could that be the case here?

Of course even a marginally set trigger level will affect measurement results however luckily only rookies make such basic mistakes. 

He means the measurement threshold, not the trigger level.

[2N3055]

Instead or arguing about how we disagree in our worldviews, back to the topic..

On both Keysight and Picoscope (I don't have Rigol available anymore), you can set thresholds (on Keysight relative and absolute, on Picoscope absolute) of how measurements are done. So if thresholds are wrong, it won't count properly. Could that be the case here?

Of course even a marginally set trigger level will affect measurement results however luckily only rookies make such basic mistakes. 

He means the measurement threshold, not the trigger level.

Yes Nico, correct. Thanks!

Tautech, to clarify, it is a separate measurement thresholds, similar to ones you need to set for decoding. On Picoscope, with DeepMeasure you need to be careful to set it right otherwise you get strange results, because auto-detect doesn't always work well. On Keysight, relative thresholds defaults work really well, and with absolute thresholds you are on your own....

[tom66]

At least it's measuring something but this "saturation" is somewhat alarming. I wonder if other measurements like DC and the average etc. calculated from them are also only performed for a part of the measured data.
Besides: does this counter count both edges or did you configure it that way? With only one edge counted, I would have expected 100k edges with 10ms/div and 1MHz square wave.

And what is the practical use of such a measurement ? 

Measuring average data rates for SPI buses, for instance.

Let's say I want to evaluate how much the delay in my PIC18F system is causing because the processor is very slow (relative to better parts) and I have long delays between packets.  I can set up the Count N-Edges function to count the number of bit cycles on the clock, and divide the figure by 8 to get the byte rate.  This could also be applied to other buses, like I2C where clock stretching of the slave may be used.

It can also be useful in calculating the average frequency of a switching converter that is in pulse-skip mode, as the regular frequency measurement (quite rightly) picks two points and calculates the period between them, whereas you may want to know a more representative average frequency for such a hysteretic function.  Knowing the number of edges or positive pulses over a time base you could get an idea of the switching frequency under low load conditions, which can help advise the choice of input/output filter components. This information can also be applied towards PSRR rejection on any LDOs following buck converter outputs.

You *might* be able to use the frequency counter to do this, but that is no good for you if you want to be able to do these measurements in smaller, specific windows when certain events might occur such as a change in power state of your main processor.

This is not a "show stopper" but it's a disappointing limitation.

For anyone testing this function it's important to note that it only does it on zoomed out data sets. If you zoom in and make the measurement, stop, then zoom out, it works properly (because it has a small data set to look at, perhaps), but that is not a typical use case.

Also, this is a minor comment, but it should show "---" or "??" or equivalent if uncertain about a measurement, instead of "0.00".

BTW, I am not a troll, if that comment was direct at me.

[Svrbinek]

Hallo, also heute bei Welectron bestellt, sollte es innerhalb einer Woche eintreffen :-)

[2N3055]

Hallo, also heute bei Welectron bestellt, sollte es innerhalb einer Woche eintreffen :-)

Hello, so I ordered from Welectron today, it should arrive within a week :-)
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I hope you told your wife too...

[Svrbinek]

He said, but it was very challenging :-) But in the end I am happy that I will be happy :-) I took advantage of my birthday yesterday :-)

[Martin72]

Besides: does this counter count both edges or did you configure it that way? With only one edge counted, I would have expected 100k edges with 10ms/div and 1MHz square wave.

Hi,

Both edges.
You can choose between edges, rising edges, falling edges, p-pulses, n-pulses.

For me, it seems to do the right thing what measuring concerns so I´m a little bit confused about the last posts here.
What exactly isn´t right with it ?
I fed in a 1Mhz signal, lower the timebase and it still measures the edges, the lower, more edges was counted.
At the lower timebase pressing stop and zooming in, still the measure works showing of course less edges.
In my opinion, it´s normal behaviour.
If I understand Tom66 right, he´s talking about the opposite that will not work, right ?
Say if you stop at 1ms timebase, you could zoom in but not out to e.g. 200µs ?

BTW: did you check this in single trigger or normal trigger mode (not stopped/stopped)?

If I remember it right, it was in Auto Mode.

[Jose Luis]

Good afternoon, although I have been following the forum for a while, this is the first time I have decided to comment on a question.
  My experience is rather with old equipment and I do not know if the bandwidth specified by this manufacturer is within the "normal". In old equipment that I have the 100 Mhz goes over 200.
  I am interested in "upgrading" to a digital oscilloscope and this model seems very interesting and affordable, my biggest question is to buy it 100 MHz or 200 MHz. I use it to play at home because I have been working in electronics and informatics for 40 years (low level programming) and I like to make circuits.
  I don't want to spend a lot of money because I understand that these teams age very fast due to the advancement of technology.
Thank you in advance for any comments.

[Martin72]

my biggest question is to buy it 100 MHz or 200 MHz.

The answer is as simple as it can get, it depends on what you will need.

[tautech]

Good afternoon, although I have been following the forum for a while, this is the first time I have decided to comment on a question.
  My experience is rather with old equipment and I do not know if the bandwidth specified by this manufacturer is within the "normal". In old equipment that I have the 100 Mhz goes over 200.
  I am interested in "upgrading" to a digital oscilloscope and this model seems very interesting and affordable, my biggest question is to buy it 100 MHz or 200 MHz. I use it to play at home because I have been working in electronics and informatics for 40 years (low level programming) and I like to make circuits.
  I don't want to spend a lot of money because I understand that these teams age very fast due to the advancement of technology.
Thank you in advance for any comments.

Welcome to the forum.

As yet I don't think anyone has published the 'real' -3dB point of each model however going on other Siglent models we would expect the 100 MHz model to reach ~120+ MHz, 200 MHz model say ~230 MHz and the 350 MHz model some 370 MHz where at above any of these frequencies only the displayed p-p amplitude and measurement accuracy suffers.

Each should easily trigger and display frequencies well beyond their rated BW albeit at reduced amplitudes.

In a few days I'll have SDS1104X Plus and my 500 MHz AWG back from a mate so I'll post some info about the -3dB point for the 100 MHz model.

[Svrbinek]

So that's incredible. Yesterday ordered and paid and today I received a mail that is sent DHL. So maybe tomorrow or the day after tomorrow :-) Welectron is really great, including the agreed price :-)

[Martin72]

Yep, they´re fast as lightening...
My brymen dmm came inbetween 36hrs....

[Svrbinek]

I have to say that while waiting for the oscilloscope, I bought a logic analyzer this week and I am delighted at how great this is for EUR 10. Thanks to him, I was able to view the waveform on Arduino with PWM, where my old oscilloscope could not show a longer waveform due to the 4KPts memory. So now I do not have to rush to buy braces that are too expensive and so far I do not need to decode, but only to display the waveforms. I think this is a good addition to Siglent for starters :-)

[Martin72]

Please write in the common language here, thank you ! 

[Svrbinek]

Sorry, fixed :-)

[TK]

The logic analyzer will not show true timing transitions for your signal.  It probably has 10-20MSa/s sample rate.  You need either a DSO with higher sample rate or a professional logic analyzer with over 100MSa/s (You can get vintage used Agilent logic analyzers for around $200 that can do around 400MSa/s)

[Jose Luis]

Thank you very much Tautech for the comments.

It is a help to establish, within what I need, what I should buy. Any other information will be appreciated.

Greetings and thanks again.

[tautech]

Thank you very much Tautech for the comments.

It is a help to establish, within what I need, what I should buy. Any other information will be appreciated.

Greetings and thanks again.

You're welcome, that's just what we all do here although at times it does turn into an A brand vs B brand war. 

While these can be useful when those that post and know their equipment well give info about features/capability which is not always crystal clear in datasheets, however it often leaves a lot of garbage for the reader to wade through to find the 'real meat' on a instrument.
Yet the fine detail in datasheets is what we most use to guide us along with the feature set we require.

I'm quite looking forward to when SDS2104X Plus arrives and the next few days when I can explore its capabilities vs higher and lower models from the Siglent stable.

[Svrbinek]

So it's home :-) It's a nice toy :-) The first impression of the noise, I expected to be a little quieter. I got the impression that he was really quiet. If I compare it to the old Agielent, Siglent is on a similar level. Here first photo :-)

[nctnico]

Yet the fine detail in datasheets is what we most use to guide us along with the feature set we require.

Well, the really fine details are often in the user manual. The datasheet is often influenced by the marketing department a lot.

[tautech]

So it's home :-) It's a nice toy :-) The first impression of the noise, I expected to be a little quieter. I got the impression that he was really quiet. If I compare it to the old Agielent, Siglent is on a similar level. Here first photo :-)

Nice.  Will you use a mouse with it ?
Up on the shelf using a mouse for control seems a good solution for your lab.