EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[Fungus]

I love conspiracy theories, so

we tried it out in a regular flashlight and in a Bluetooth mouse. This time, though, it failed to make contact and power the devices. Roohparvar thought the positive tip wasn’t quite lined up where it needed to be and said the production version would be much more resilient. He offered to give Yahoo Makers another unit to test soon.

They couldn't fiddle with it until it made contact...?

this fits nicely with two keyboards and non functional product mockup scenario.

You're right, it does...   

[Wytnucls]

They must have a few functional AA sleeves, like the one sent to the FCC for testing.
Out of curiosity, I made one sleeve, without the PCB, from the metal slide on a 3 1/2" floppy disk. I think it is also made from a 0.1mm stainless steel sheet.
It feels sturdy enough for several uses, but the weak points will be the PCB anchor tabs and electrical contact.

Here is a suggested update for their site, in case they still read this thread:

[miguelvp]

20% sounds more reasonable than 800%.

Of course they do this after they got their crowd funding money and after they got all the hyped press to give them free advert with the 800% claim.

If they started with the 20% I would doubt the media would have give them that much attention.

[drussell]

20% sounds more reasonable than 800%.

Of course they do this after they got their crowd funding money and after they got all the hyped press to give them free advert with the 800% claim.

If they started with the 20% I would doubt the media would have give them that much attention.

That wasn't a change by Batteroo, that was a "suggested" change by Wytnucls. 

[edy]

I would modify that to saying....


Get the full 1.5 V out of your batteries for their entire usage life!^*

*Your batteries may not work for as long, but who cares since your device at 1.3 V^** is no good to you anyways if they drop to that level after only a few hours 

**1.3 V cutoff is only an estimate, and may vary to as low as 0.9 V per cell on some devices (hey we told you so, so don't complain... now go away and buy more of them, don't ask us any more questions)

[AmmoJammo]

I would modify that to saying....


Get the full 1.5 V out of your batteries for their entire usage life!^*

*Your batteries may not work for as long, but who cares since your device at 1.3 V^** is no good to you anyways if they drop to that level after only a few hours 

**1.3 V cutoff is only an estimate, and may vary to as low as 0.9 V per cell on some devices (hey we told you so, so don't complain... now go away and buy more of them, don't ask us any more questions)

! 50% of the time, as the other 50% of the time, it won't physically fit in your device.

[jancumps]

Yes, slick and effective marketing BS, for sure....  Actual information or useful data and statistics, any technical information at all, anywhere?  Not so much!

That stuff doesn't matter when you are strictly (as I am) talking about their actual campaign. I can't see how anyone could argue it was not executed to almost flawless perfection.
...

I'd like to exclude the fan site from that.

I think it's been a group of young enthusiasts and relatives that did more harm than good. They weren't part of the flawless perfection. More a bunch of uncontrollable mob.
It may have sounded like a great idea. Some cousins and friends from uni that support the campaign - and then they go berserk

I'm a bit old fashioned fond of them though. Such an enthusiasm and rücksichtslos support warms my heart.
Many great careers are build on young foolish behavior - and learning from that...

edit: note to self: go to English grammar and speling course

[jancumps]

Just because they did not show prototypes. And I did not see a working prototype in their videos.

What about the Apple keyboard video?

I've been in doubt of mentioning my thought for many weeks, but although this video may very well be an actual working demonstration of the device, at the same time there is no guarantee that you are actually looking at the keyboard that is paired with the laptop. I mean it would be trivial to have a second keyboard nearby that is actually showing its stats on the computer screen.

This will work. The video will be real. A largely depleted battery can look good on a fuel gauge when there's a booster in between.
That doesn't mean that the keyboard will work longer.

[Stephan_T]

Technical information appearing and disappearing from their website after someone mentions it on here could become a drinking game!

Here's your drinking game:

Tap into 100% pure drinking
water with Wasserhahn

Yes, slick and effective marketing BS, for sure....  Actual information or useful data and statistics, any technical information at all, anywhere?  Not so much!

That stuff doesn't matter when you are strictly (as I am) talking about their actual campaign. I can't see how anyone could argue it was not executed to almost flawless perfection.

If by "actual campaign" you mean their efforts to make the now called fan page YouTube channel to disappear from it, you seem to actually blind your self
They are now linking to a Batteroo Vimeo account, but the dates on the videos show which one was first:
First monkey video on Youtube  Published on Jul 10, 2015

Same video at Vimeo channel posted on July 25, 2015 at 7:30 PM

I guess, they will sooner or later delete the whole YouTube channel to bury the tracks of Nature Man, the Twins Teach the World ... and all the comments there. That Youtube channel is not what I would call a part of a professional marketing campaign.

Actually it is an embarrassment for the VC company to have a client using such idiots to premier their video rebuttals of you debunking. The fact, that this channel is still existing today, shows you that the marketing campaign is anything but[t] flawless.

[EEVblog]

20% sounds more reasonable than 800%.

Of course they do this after they got their crowd funding money and after they got all the hyped press to give them free advert with the 800% claim.

If they started with the 20% I would doubt the media would have give them that much attention.

That wasn't a change by Batteroo, that was a "suggested" change by Wytnucls. 

Yes, Wytnucls should have said that one was a joke. He had me checking their site seeing if that was true 

[Galenbo]

Just because they did not show prototypes. And I did not see a working prototype in their videos.

What about the Apple keyboard video?

It must be the definition of "showing"

The few microseconds the metal shield is "shown" in that full-edited video means nothing to me.
The way it affects the fuel gage also means nothing. But at least they took the effort to turn the clock back to make it look right.

In contrast to what I would suspect on this kind of forums, there seem to be many people misleaded by those marketing videos.
Nobody familiar with tests where volts, amps, time,.. is shown? Like the videos about the microcurrent.

[Galenbo]

You mentioned the "reputable" "reporters" before. You did not say who they are, what they know, they did not make/show a report.
You just mentioned they said "it worked", without specifying how, where, why, conditions, report.

Here is one:
https://www.yahoo.com/makers/breakthrough-battery-gadget-answers-critics-125063020800.html
I have spoken to him directly, he has seen it working.

So Oliver Libaw Managing Editor saw the device. At least, if he tells the thruth, they indeed made a shell with the DC converter on it.
Happy to know the name of the only person who "saw" this till now.
What was his definition of "working"? The device fooling the fuel gage with flat batteries, or did he measure the extra time devices could run?

2nd part: What's reputable about him? doesn he know tech/science basics? Or does he hold a "big" position?
I'll do a little research about other articles he writes, somebody knows what type of guy this is?


Edit: LinkedIn says Master Philosophy
Editor Producer Content Management...

But as we saw before. LinkedIn profiles don't tell everything. Maybe there's a Engineering Master hidden behind it. 

[Wytnucls]

Regardless, UL and FCC testing means they have a working Batteriser. Like Dave said, building a working sleeve with off-the-shelf components is rather trivial.
Making one that performs to the level of their inflated claims is another matter.

PS: Apologies to the people I misled with the fake Batteroo banner. I changed the introduction to make it more obvious. I thought my shoddy work with MS Paint was self-evident. 

[Galenbo]

Regardless, UL and FCC testing means they have a working Batteriser.

Can be my lack of understanding english, but I understood that till now every UL testing announcement was fake, and there is no UL report.
Please correct me if you have other data.

Like Dave said, building a working sleeve with off-the-shelf components is rather trivial.

Can be my lack of understanding english, but I understood that they were making a miniaturised version of the circuit to make it fit, and with existing components it wouldn't fit.
Please correct me if you have other data.

[Wytnucls]

I contacted UL personnel who confirmed that the Batteriser reference number was genuine.
Existing DC to DC components fit easily in the space around the anode of the batteries. None can provide the claimed 1.5A output, but that's another story.

[Halcyon]

part disappeared from the batteriser website.

Technical information appearing and disappearing from their website after someone mentions it on here could become a drinking game!

But you don't drink Dave? Or do you... has Batteroo convinced you to play Beer Pong (of sorts) ?
At least Wine? It's kind of like grape juice.

;-)

[Galenbo]

Existing DC to DC components fit easily in the space around the anode of the batteries. None can...

I understood in the beginning they were planning to make new components. Did I misunderstand that, or did they change what they say they plan?
Maybe I thought this based on comments like this, I don't remember if there were other comments or claims-->

Actually, I want it to get funded so I can actually get one to check out the miniaturisation and how they are doing that.

I contacted UL personnel who confirmed that the Batteriser reference number was genuine.

I must have missed that. Is more info about this in this tread or somewhere else?

[Wytnucls]

There isn't much extra information about the actual test, as UL won't release it to the public. The only thing that is certain is that Batteroo had some test done at UL, under their supervision, with a genuine reference number.

The BatteRoohparvar brothers claim they spun their own DC to DC converter, but there is no evidence to back that up yet. They also did claim to have had to shrink components to make them fit on small AA/AAA PCBs, but again, tiny DC to DC converters and inductors have been available for some time, so that's probably all baloney.

[Galenbo]

Regardless, UL and FCC testing means they have a working Batteriser.

The only thing that is certain is that Batteroo had some test done at UL, under their supervision, with a genuine reference number.

So let's not assume it's a something that looks similar to what their renderings show.
It would be too naive to believe that from a serial-liar company.

Except, when, of course, a very-reputable-philosophy-reporter shows up and says he really did see it, that would totally change my idea.

[Wytnucls]

The official FCC test report is proof enough that a batteriser was used in that instance. I don't know why you're stuck on renderings, there are plenty pictures of real AA sleeves around.
Anyway, in about a month, some could be available for testing, so have some patience.

[ccs46]

The official FCC test report is proof enough that a batteriser was used in that instance. I don't know why you're stuck on renderings, there are plenty pictures of real AA sleeves around.
Anyway, in about a month, some could be available for testing, so have some patience.

Yeah but all the FCC testing means is that it won't interfere with other devices by means of RF, or that it accepts RF from other device without causing ill effects. The FCC test does not mean it will do what batteriser claims.

On another note, anyone have that link that shows how many times their website has changed? My friend who designs websites is wondering if they really are changing it.  Dad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EEVblog]

So Oliver Libaw Managing Editor saw the device. At least, if he tells the thruth

Galenbo, can you please stop all this conspiracy talk about how the real prototypes don't exist. You are the only one who thinks so, and harping on and on about it will just make this forum thread look like conspiracy central.
A lot of people (including media) come here to read the technical rebuttals, this stuff does not make the technical arguments look good.

[Fungus]

The official FCC test report is proof enough that a batteriser was used in that instance. I don't know why you're stuck on renderings, there are plenty pictures of real AA sleeves around.
Anyway, in about a month, some could be available for testing, so have some patience.

Yeah but all the FCC testing means is that it won't interfere with other devices by means of RF, or that it accepts RF from other device without causing ill effects. The FCC test does not mean it will do what batteriser claims.

Whoosh! 

The point of the FCC testing is that it exists, not that it does what they claim.

NOBODY here believes it will do what they claim (and there's over 200 pages people saying so!)

[edy]

Here is another product for Batteroo to come up with... specifically for 2 batteries in series connected side-by-side (3V total) like these examples:



Like in this toy...




Just create a PCB the shape of a large figure-8... it would not need to be a sleeve. It would just insert at one end of the battery compartment (up against the part that actually is wired to the circuitry of the device) and span both the NEGATIVE end of one battery and the POSITIVE end of the other battery. It would boost them to 3V constant voltage (as seen by the device). The other side of the battery compartment is simply a contact running across the batteries.

The question will be to identify which end is simply a bridge contact and which runs through the device. That could be checked easily with OHM measurement. The device could even have an OHM meter built in, if it finds no resistance it blinks a red light or something as it is on the wrong end of the 2-battery compartment.

So you slip in the figure-8 shaped PCB so it contacts BOTH + and - contacts on one end of the battery compartment (assuming there is no nasty plastic divider between them to get in the way) and you then slide your batteries in as usual. The 2 batteries will form their own circuit through your Batteriser on one side of the PCB, and coming out the other side of the PCB is your boosted 3 V constant. 

Maybe I should start a campaign... 

Here is another link I found with something similar:

http://www.seanet.com/~karllunt/5vdcbatteries.html

[dexters_lab]

Here is another product for Batteroo to come up with... specifically for 2 batteries in series connected side-by-side (3V total) like these examples:



Like in this toy...




Just create a PCB the shape of a large figure-8... it would not need to be a sleeve. It would just insert at one end of the battery compartment (up against the part that actually is wired to the circuitry of the device) and span both the NEGATIVE end of one battery and the POSITIVE end of the other battery. It would boost them to 3V constant voltage (as seen by the device). The other side of the battery compartment is simply a contact running across the batteries.

The question will be to identify which end is simply a bridge contact and which runs through the device. That could be checked easily with OHM measurement. The device could even have an OHM meter built in, if it finds no resistance it blinks a red light or something as it is on the wrong end of the 2-battery compartment.

So you slip in the figure-8 shaped PCB so it contacts BOTH + and - contacts on one end of the battery compartment (assuming there is no nasty plastic divider between them to get in the way) and you then slide your batteries in as usual. The 2 batteries will form their own circuit through your Batteriser on one side of the PCB, and coming out the other side of the PCB is your boosted 3 V constant. 

Maybe I should start a campaign... 

Here is another link I found with something similar:

http://www.seanet.com/~karllunt/5vdcbatteries.html

why? Thats just overcomplicating things, assuming the batteriser works ( ) then two regular AA batterisers would work just fine. A figure 8 design would not work even in the image you posted because they often have plastic dividers between the batteries and it would also be more complicated for the end user to use