EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[lpickup]

Oh, and we spent all your crowdfunding money on stupid videos, fast cars, and fast women

...and clapping monkeys and 8 year old golf GPS units and we had to buy a new oscilloscope because the toy we had before was being laughed at in our videos

[McBryce]

fast cars, and fast women

Well at least they didn't waste it then.

No, no, no... the joke is "spent it on loose cars and fast women"

Actually I was referring to the famous Georgie Best quote (as Delta spotted): "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."

McBryce.

[Godzil]

Yesterday their INDIEGOGO page said 16 hours left.
Now it is another 30 days.

They clearly didn't get the money they were after. If they think they are going to get double after another 30 days, good luck with that, campaigns don't usually work like that.

So why did they set an initial target of $30,000? 

They extended it another 30 days. This story only gets weirder. Their funding curve over the 30 days probably looks just like a battery voltage depletion curve, only flipped in its Y-axis.... Starts off fast, plateaus and then a final quick jump to the finish line.

True, but unlike a battery charge, backer can retract, so the line may go down suddenly if people get rid of the scam

[SundayProgrammer]

Do we already know who is the "EE" in the clapping monkey video? I have started to feel sorry for him - if he really is EE I think he has lost his face so bad nobody will take him seriously anymore about anything.

If he is just a paid actor..  I understand.

Axel.

[Fungus]

Do we already know who is the "EE" in the clapping monkey video?

Yes, the detective story is in the middle of this thread somewhere.

We guessed it was this guy: https://instagram.com/exellentc/  https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopheruken

In their last video they actually called him "Chris" so I guess that makes it definitive.

If he is just a paid actor..  I understand.

Unfortunately not.

[LabSpokane]

Extending the crowd funding campaign is what one does after the VC firm closes your bank account and says, "Hell no! We will NOT be paying people to take product that 'works' by violating the first and second laws of thermodynamics.  Figure this mess out by yourselves."

September 26th is well outside the start window for the holiday season. They are going to have to buy tooling. They need to make progressive dies to whack out the clips, and I don't see how that can be done, qualify/tweak the tools and still get stuff on a cargo container for November delivery. There's also also the production and test fixtures that will need to be made. The injection molds appear to have been taken care of already, or maybe not. I couldn't see a witness line around the logo on the plastic case, but maybe they had a really good insert made for an existing tool(s).

If Batteroo is using this money to build tooling - which I'm guessing they are and is why they had to extend the campaign - don't get your hopes up on seeing your Batteriser any time soon.  Even in China, $300k can disappear in heartbeat.  I just don't see enough capital here to build 100k+ of anything.

[firewalker]

A VC firm does not care about laws of nature. They only care for laws of money. If someone starts to sell holy water that extends life by 50 years, and people want to buy it, VC will be there to support it.

Alexander.

[tree]

At 9:33, Frankie demonstrates on YouTube for the whole world to see that the essence of their claims is that the Batteriser is an over-unity device.

Frankie is either deliberately or ignorantly confusing the voltage at the device's (Batteriser's output/device input) terminals with the voltage at the battery's terminals. The voltage at the battery's terminals DOES NOT GO UP because the Batteriser is attached. That voltage must go down due to the increased current draw in order to boost the voltage at the device terminals.

This so bad it's hard to find adjectives. Batteroo just invalidated at least some of their patent claims. By themselves. On YouTube. 

 

What are you talking about?

It's bloody obvious that they are not only saving the planet, but they also devised a system to extract more energy out of a battery than battery manufacturers claim their batteries possess. 

[firewalker]

Alexander.

[miguelvp]

Or 30 days for everyone to pull their contribution, nah that wont happen because people that put money on it probably will never visit the campaign again.

I wonder if some other product that got greedy lost contributions/pledges trying to squeezed a bit more out of IGG/KS.

[tree]

Just 30 more days for Dave to educate people.

[edy]

I concur... This is the email I received since I am following the campaign on IndieGogo:

30 more days to buy Batteriser!

We are thrilled by the tremendous support we've recieved during The Batteriser pre-sale this past month. We raised over $290,000, and reached nearly 1000% of our campaign goal. We know many of you have only recently learned about the Batteriser technology, so we've extended the pre-sale for another 30 days.

We want as many people as possible to benefit from the savings and environmental benefit that come with Batteriser. Buying during our pre-sale gives you the added benefit of our earlybird discounts, and you'll be among the first to get your Batterisers.

Copyright © 2015 Batteriser, All rights reserved.
You are receiving this email because you wished to join our batteriser team. Thank You!

Our mailing address is:
Batteriser
310 De Guigne Dr.
Sunnyvale, CA 94085

[McBryce]

September 26th is well outside the start window for the holiday season. They are going to have to buy tooling. They need to make progressive dies to whack out the clips, and I don't see how that can be done, qualify/tweak the tools and still get stuff on a cargo container for November delivery. There's also also the production and test fixtures that will need to be made. The injection molds appear to have been taken care of already, or maybe not. I couldn't see a witness line around the logo on the plastic case, but maybe they had a really good insert made for an existing tool(s).

If Batteroo is using this money to build tooling - which I'm guessing they are and is why they had to extend the campaign - don't get your hopes up on seeing your Batteriser any time soon.  Even in China, $300k can disappear in heartbeat.  I just don't see enough capital here to build 100k+ of anything.

You're assuming that they ever planned to mass produce their  "product". Maybe that was never part of the plan. They may not even have sourced a production facility. Maybe this is something that should be looked at?

A VC that knows what the first or second law of Thermodynamics is?? And makes decisions based on them?? I'd like to meet one, if they exist.

McBryce.

[firewalker]

They say that they had to go for a custom dc-dc chip. Correct? So they must went for large volume for the cost to be viable. They must have a large stock of the most critical part. If true, they can start mass production as we speak.

Alexander.

[edy]

I looked up their mailing address on Google Maps and there we have "SK Telecom" again. Aren't they the Venture Capitalist firm that is bank-rolling these guys? SK = "South Korea" ? See this:

http://www.sktelecom.com/index_real.html

And then here the VC page:

http://sktainnopartners.com/80-2/

How deep is this connection and what is happening here?

[McBryce]

So who's making the IC? There's not that many companies that can fulfil such a contract and production firms leak like a plumbers tap. Someone must know who's doing this?

McBryce.

[tree]

The low target is probably so it makes it look like they are so popular they are over-funded right away, also convincing potential crowd-funders that it is a sure thing since they are way over target... they will fund the campaign. But they also had a "flexible funding" on the $30k which means they could have raised only $10k and still able to keep the money. It is just for show.

They extended it another 30 days. This story only gets weirder. Their funding curve over the 30 days probably looks just like a battery voltage depletion curve, only flipped in its Y-axis.... Starts off fast, plateaus and then a final quick jump to the finish line.

However, in this case there is a Batteriser attached, so maybe they think it can extend their campaign another 8x! :-)

That is some solid math!

[Rasz]

Or 30 days for everyone to pull their contribution, nah that wont happen because people that put money on it probably will never visit the campaign again.

It wont happen because once you invest in something your brain flips a switch from critical thinking to justification. Cognitive dissonance solving part kicks in and starts whispering into your ear "Im not a sucker, I wouldnt give my money to a scammer, therefore it is not a scam, those other people are just jelly". This is how it works when you invest money/time in something, be it a product, idea (for example scientific theory) or religion. You stop analysing, and start rationalizing your decision.


As for the butterplug itself, as far as I see it all they have are printed paper cutout models of what the final product might look like.

[ez24]

I do not know why you guys are so down on this - see pic below before the video

The pic comes from about 9:10 in the video.

This VI vs time graph clearly shows that the battery has much more energy in it than the V vs T graph that Dave likes to draw.   Everyone is just forgetting about current.  You need to add the area under the current graph to the area under the voltage graph.  This is what this device does - it adds the areas to give you more power.
 QED

Now I am going to buy mine.

Here is the whole truth telling video

[Fungus]

I looked up their mailing address on Google Maps and there we have "SK Telecom" again. Aren't they the Venture Capitalist firm that is bank-rolling these guys? SK = "South Korea" ? See this:

Well ... 310 De Guigne Dr. (Batteroo) isn't the same as 370 De Guigne Dr (SK Telecom).

It's not surprising that SK Telecom have offices in the USA, or that Batteroo is near their venture capitalist.

[LabSpokane]

This VI vs time graph clearly shows that the battery has much more energy in it than the V vs T graph that Dave likes to draw.   Everyone is just forgetting about current.  You need to add the area under the current graph to the area under the voltage graph.  This is what this device does - it adds the areas to give you more power.
 QED

I hope this is sarcasm. 

[LabSpokane]

I looked up their mailing address on Google Maps and there we have "SK Telecom" again. Aren't they the Venture Capitalist firm that is bank-rolling these guys? SK = "South Korea" ? See this:

Well ... 310 De Guigne Dr. (Batteroo) isn't the same as 370 De Guigne Dr (SK Telecom).

It's not surprising that SK Telecom have offices in the USA, or that Batteroo is near their venture capitalist.

Keep in mind that a portion of the "up to $1M USD" that SK provides is in the form of "assistance," so things like office space come out of that total.  It's a great way to inflate the equity portion of the investment while minimizing capital outlay. 

SK requires their "fund-ees" to operate out of SK's own offices.  The fact that Batteroo is in the same office complex is not a coincidence. 

[LabSpokane]

But they also had a "flexible funding" on the $30k which means they could have raised only $10k and still able to keep the money. It is just for show.

45 days ago, the crowdfunding was just for show.  Now, it is life or death for Batteroo.  In the consumer electronics industry, you have to have your sh*t squared away by late summer in order to have time to get distribution filled.  No one in their right mind would drag out getting their money into late September unless they had no other options. 

[ez24]

I hope this is sarcasm.

Yes after I brushed up on my VI vs T graphs 

I couldn't believe they would post this.

Dave needs to put up a VBS v t graph (voltage bull shit vs time)

[edy]

Some interesting links come up when you Google "SK Telecom" and "Batteriser". Here is an obvious one. I wonder if Mr. Park has decided to investigate his investment further.

Min. H. Park: President SK Telecom Americas and also Investor and Board Member Batteroo/Batteriser (no surprise as they are providing VC funding and need to watch what is going on with their investments)

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/min-h-park/0/85a/b77?trk=seokp-title_posts_secondary_cluster_res_author_name


It's all part of SK Telecom Ventures. He is board member of a whole pile of other investments that are being funded by this VC firm. I haven't looked at the other projects but I presume they are on more solid footing from an engineering stand-point.

So my question is, how do these guys link up with each other? Does Mr. Roohparvar go to some VC convention and pitch the idea to various firms (one of which is SK Telecom) and try to secure backing to develop things? Is that how it works? Or do they go to conventions and set up tables to showcase their invention and hope for a VC firm to pass by their booth and start talking? Or is there some other way of doing this?