Covid 19 virus

[Zero999]

If I understood correctly, the idea was that the Chinese predicted when the peak demand in intensive care is going to be, and being prepared early, they could build something which is inbetween a really proper hospital, and a makeshift temporary hospital converted from something else. The details matter, and you can get many details right (even if not all) when you have a week to design and another to build. If you are super efficient, at least.

China built TWO types of new hospitals, makeshift ones and semi-permanent ones. The former is for taking confirmed patients from society to a controlled recovery place, the latter is to treat those severe cases that need real hospital resources.

In Wuhan, they built 16 makeshift ones, and they can be taken apart overnight too. After all those are just foam boards and MDF boards placed in stadiums. Those real hospitals took longer to built, clocking in at 7 days and 10 days, and they have real gears like properly ventilated wards, CT scanners, labs and more. They only built two of them in Wuhan, and a few in other major cities anticipating mass influx of patients from abroad.

Some of those semi-permanent hospitals will be converted to permanent settings for future pandemic mitigation, like the original one in Beijing built for SARS (conversion started late January, finished early March), some will remain there for future conversion. I don't see they plan to remove any of them.

China really have shown the rest of the world how to deal with the problem.

If we shutdown the whole of the UK for few weeks, only allowing hospital staff to use pubic transport, this could be over quickly. Food could even be strictly controlled, to cut down the numbers in shops. Most people in the UK are fat enough they could cope with hardly eating for few weeks. We really need to come down on this hard.

[SiliconWizard]

The fact people living in more crowded spaces are more at risk doesn't seem that weird to me. No reason to make this a political matter.

[Cerebus]

I think the higher smoking rate in Chinese men was probably most likely to blame for the higher death rate in males. I don't have any definite statistics but I believe the sex ratio of smokers in my age group in the UK is opposite: more females, than male smokers. If I cast my mind back to when I was 15, more of the girls at school smoked, than the boys. It will be interesting to see how it plays out in the UK.

Read somewhere that so far the muslim population in UK has been hit hardest. Like 10x infections  or something.
Extended families with grandparents living under the same roof and eating habits like sharing the same plate of food among family members.

Likely to be bullshit propaganda put out by some nut-job who wants to cast Muslims in a bad light.

I live in one of, if not the, the most Muslim boroughs in the country (32% of population) and there are, as of now, 42 officially confirmed cases (irrespective of religion etc. etc) out of 350,000 people in the borough (12/100,000), a comparable rate to other London boroughs. Our (less densely populated) neighbour Essex  has 2.92 cases/100,000 and 0.3% Muslims, the London borough of Kensington and Chelsea (richest, and probably the 'whitest' London borough - over 70% white) 42.2 cases/100,000. Based on that, it's clearly rich white folks who are the hotbed of disease.

Pretty sure I saw percents also mentioned somewhere but this is a concern even mids muslims themself, not just some white-chistian-nutjob
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-muslim-mosque-closure-prayer-nhs-a9411936.html

Whatever the motivation, the numbers just don't bear it out. Like I say, more Muslims in my neighbourhood than anywhere else in Britain - no more cases than any other London borough.

[Cerebus]

Western doctors are saying masks do nothing unless you are already infected. But these Chinese doctors all are wearing masks, most of them cheapo surgical masks, not P95's.

What makes the West correct?

To make like Spiriman: Jesus Candel.  When the threat was far, laught and  without giving importance because the covid is seemd to the "cold" (no flu) . When the plague arrived and Spiriman is in the 1st frontline.
The balls put him by tie. And he began to scream,cry,gasp by youtube and TV about of dangerousnes of the covid. Furthermore, he had info about their italian mates.

Here,this is the video  of the Joan Planas that teardown to hypocrit of Jesus Candel.

https://youtu.be/UxlwLaGHxQE

You do realise that this makes no sense to anybody, don't you. Not the content, the language. I literally cannot even guess what you're trying to say. Are you using Google translate or something similar to post your messages? It just comes out as word salad.

[not1xor1]

of course that is also a form of propaganda, but medical staff exhaustion is over since days if not weeks as new cases have been lower and lower for a while
stop looking for evil plots

Since you are using Italian flag, just curious as these are not covered mostly by western news agencies.

Is it true China have sent medical teams and also medical supplies to Italy to help ? Or its just another lie ?

no that's true, and they have criticized Italian people because just still too many of them do not abide by the quarantine rules
they have also sent a lot of supplies

the following was a misunderstanding:
a huge part of with has been stolen by the asshole who rule the Czech republic

[not1xor1]

The problem is that when the whole population buys masks, the people really at very high risk like the healthcare workers may run out of supplies.

This!

I'm quite certain that if there were actually an abundant supply of masks, most public health officials would be advising that everyone wear one.  This is not so much for the wearer to prevent becoming infected, rather to help curtail the spread from those that may not even know they're spreading it.

Public health officials here are correct, in that we really all should be acting like we each already have the virus when interacting with others to help limit the spread from those without obvious symptoms.

I found it very striking that one of the first things that the Dr. from the Chinese Red Cross team that is in Italy now to help give guidance to the government said in his statement was basically, "You're doing this all wrong!  You're not restricting people nearly enough!  Your mass transit is still running!  Why is everyone not wearing masks?!"

Edit: Found the actual quote:

Chinese Red Cross Vice President Sun Shuopeng warned Italians that they were risking lives by not adhering to the novel coronavirus lockdown. He made the comments after visiting Milan in the hardest-hit region of Italy, which has recorded 41,035 cases and 3,405 deaths. “Here in Milan, the hardest-hit area by COVID-19, the lockdown measures are very lax,” the veteran of the Wuhan epidemic fight said Thursday. “I can see public transport is still running, people are still moving around, having gatherings in hotels and they are not wearing masks.” Sun warned that the resistance to the lockdown will prove deadly. “I don’t know what people here are thinking. We really have to stop our usual economic activities and our usual human interactions. We have to stay at home and make every effort to save lives. It is worth putting every cost we have into saving lives.”

I fully agree with Dr Sun Shuopeng, unfortunately it is next to impossible to make those assholes understand that the sooner and the stricter they quarantine themselves we quarantine ourselves the sooner the problem will be over (or at least will be made much more manageable)

many of those complains they are fed up to stay at home, they want to go out jogging and so on

during the last two weeks I got out just twice to buy food and medicines and while I saw much less people than usual there were still to many idiots going around for no apparent reason and behaving as fools (e.g. taking off the mask and smoking a cigarette)

[iMo]

of course that is also a form of propaganda, but medical staff exhaustion is over since days if not weeks as new cases have been lower and lower for a while
stop looking for evil plots

Since you are using Italian flag, just curious as these are not covered mostly by western news agencies.

Is it true China have sent medical teams and also medical supplies to Italy to help ? Or its just another lie ?

no that's true, and they have criticized Italian people because just still too many of them do not abide by the quarantine rules
they have also sent a lot of supplies a huge part of with has been stolen by the asshole who rule the Czech republic

@not1xor1: plz be so kind and stop writing BULLSHIT.
Read again below, there is the link to the China's/CZ's statement on it.
Btw, the masks were not intended for Italian people..

the Czech Republic has seized thousands of masks sent from China to Italy

"The official version with the first releases said at the beginning that it dealt with masks and respirators confiscated, talking about material stolen from Czech companies by unscrupulous criminals who wanted to sell them at higher cost on the international market, challenging the strict limits on medical exports imposed in Czechia as elsewhere by the emergency ". But then there appeared photos and videos shown by Cervinka and the democratic and pro-European NGOs, who made it clear the bad truth. On board of police trucks there were boxes with the Chinese and Italian flags, and written in Italian and Mandarin in which the Beijing authorities launched greetings, encouragement and desire for help to Italy.

they say: true friends are seen in times of need... it looks like that is true also for foes
it looks like we should kick a few countries off EU

Few days back a seller offered masks to CZ Ministry of Health for an unusually high price, stocked in CZ. Ministry declined and informed police.

Police seized the complete stock of 680k masks according to the current "CZ law in state of emergency" and the Ministry paid the seller the usual price.

Police investigated the case and found out 101k masks from that stock were a donation from the Red Cross of Qingtian City of China's Zhejiang province to Chinese expatriates in Italy.

CZ and Zhejiang province is organizing the replacement.

http://www.china.org.cn/world/2020-03/21/content_75842056.htm

Edit: typos

[DrG]

Western doctors are saying masks do nothing unless you are already infected. But these Chinese doctors all are wearing masks, most of them cheapo surgical masks, not P95's.

What makes the West correct?

To make like Spiriman: Jesus Candel.  When the threat was far, laught and  without giving importance because the covid is seemd to the "cold" (no flu) . When the plague arrived and Spiriman is in the 1st frontline.
The balls put him by tie. And he began to scream,cry,gasp by youtube and TV about of dangerousnes of the covid. Furthermore, he had info about their italian mates.

Here,this is the video  of the Joan Planas that teardown to hypocrit of Jesus Candel.

https://youtu.be/UxlwLaGHxQE

You do realise that this makes no sense to anybody, don't you. Not the content, the language. I literally cannot even guess what you're trying to say. Are you using Google translate or something similar to post your messages? It just comes out as word salad.

It doesn't help much, but I get the general idea.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=https://www.lavanguardia.com/local/sevilla/20200320/474258630948/spiriman-medico-granada-susana-diaz-insultos-perfil-coronavirus.html&prev=search

[not1xor1]

I think the higher smoking rate in Chinese men was probably most likely to blame for the higher death rate in males. I don't have any definite statistics but I believe the sex ratio of smokers in my age group in the UK is opposite: more females, than male smokers. If I cast my mind back to when I was 15, more of the girls at school smoked, than the boys. It will be interesting to see how it plays out in the UK.

yes
look at the statistics somebody (sorry I do not remember who) else linked a few messages ago
the sex smoke difference in China is huge compared to that of UK and many other countries

[not1xor1]

If I understood correctly, the idea was that the Chinese predicted when the peak demand in intensive care is going to be, and being prepared early, they could build something which is inbetween a really proper hospital, and a makeshift temporary hospital converted from something else. The details matter, and you can get many details right (even if not all) when you have a week to design and another to build. If you are super efficient, at least.

the truth is just: Chinese did it better 
and as far as I've read, in Taiwan they managed to react pretty early too
well S.K. and Japan didn't manage that not so badly after all

but here in Europe, more or less, we just screwed up

[not1xor1]

the Czech Republic has seized thousands of masks sent from China to Italy

"The official version with the first releases said at the beginning that it dealt with masks and respirators confiscated, talking about material stolen from Czech companies by unscrupulous criminals who wanted to sell them at higher cost on the international market, challenging the strict limits on medical exports imposed in Czechia as elsewhere by the emergency ". But then there appeared photos and videos shown by Cervinka and the democratic and pro-European NGOs, who made it clear the bad truth. On board of police trucks there were boxes with the Chinese and Italian flags, and written in Italian and Mandarin in which the Beijing authorities launched greetings, encouragement and desire for help to Italy.

they say: true friends are seen in times of need... it looks like that is true also for foes
it looks like we should kick a few countries off EU

Few days back a seller offered masks to CZ Ministry of Health for an unusually high price, stocked in CZ. Ministry declined and informed police.

Police seized the complete stock of 680k masks according to the current "CZ law in state of emergency" and the Ministry paid the seller the usual price.

Police investigated the case and found out 101k masks from that stock were a donation from the Red Cross of Qingtian City of China's Zhejiang province to Chinese expatriates in Italy.

CZ and Zhejiang province is organizing the replacement.

http://www.china.org.cn/world/2020-03/21/content_75842056.htm

Edit: typos

OK thanks... that seems more believable... it looks like the newspaper has been fooled by the Czech activist - he may have been in good faith too - so it is likely just another misunderstanding in this messy situation

[thinkfat]

Western doctors are saying masks do nothing unless you are already infected. But these Chinese doctors all are wearing masks, most of them cheapo surgical masks, not P95's.

What makes the West correct?

To make like Spiriman: Jesus Candel.  When the threat was far, laught and  without giving importance because the covid is seemd to the "cold" (no flu) . When the plague arrived and Spiriman is in the 1st frontline.
The balls put him by tie. And he began to scream,cry,gasp by youtube and TV about of dangerousnes of the covid. Furthermore, he had info about their italian mates.

Here,this is the video  of the Joan Planas that teardown to hypocrit of Jesus Candel.

https://youtu.be/UxlwLaGHxQE

You do realise that this makes no sense to anybody, don't you. Not the content, the language. I literally cannot even guess what you're trying to say. Are you using Google translate or something similar to post your messages? It just comes out as word salad.

I think it's clear enough. Go exercise your pattern matching a little bit and you'll be able to make sense of it. Yes, he's probably using Google translate, from Spanish, I guess.

Spiriman, Jesus Candel, is apparently of some notoriety in his region, and set a bad example by laughing off the threat when it was far, only to break down and whine and cry out on all channels when the strike hit close to home. He has his balls tied in a knot, if I got the idiom translated correctly.

[vodka]

Western doctors are saying masks do nothing unless you are already infected. But these Chinese doctors all are wearing masks, most of them cheapo surgical masks, not P95's.

What makes the West correct?

To make like Spiriman: Jesus Candel.  When the threat was far, laught and  without giving importance because the covid is seemd to the "cold" (no flu) . When the plague arrived and Spiriman is in the 1st frontline.
The balls put him by tie. And he began to scream,cry,gasp by youtube and TV about of dangerousnes of the covid. Furthermore, he had info about their italian mates.

Here,this is the video  of the Joan Planas that teardown to hypocrit of Jesus Candel.

https://youtu.be/UxlwLaGHxQE

You do realise that this makes no sense to anybody, don't you. Not the content, the language. I literally cannot even guess what you're trying to say. Are you using Google translate or something similar to post your messages? It just comes out as word salad.

The 90% the setences  wrote myself and the rest  i use as support the google translator for  translate words or "try to correct" spelling errors. Apart, i recognize that  not  domain english and many times i have the bad habit of  translate  spanish vulgar expressions to english .

[not1xor1]

@not1xor1: plz be so kind and stop writing BULLSHIT.
Read again below, there is the link to the China's/CZ's statement on it.
Btw, the masks were not intended for Italian people..

I thank you for clarifying that, you are right, but I didn't intend to write anything false
I just linked a newspaper article thinking it was true... 
I have edited my previous messages
I apologize with everybody

[iMo]

..
OK thanks... that seems more believable... it looks like the newspaper has been fooled by the Czech activist - he may have been in good faith too - so it is likely just another misunderstanding in this messy situation

The Czechia and Slovakia have special regulation in power currently, and for example in Czechia for spreading misleading information you may serve for 8 years behind bars..

[Bicurico]

Hi,

Attached is an Excel sheet that I developed, which allows to simulate infection rate vs. death toll, considering the size of a population, number of hospital beds, etc.

It does not pretend to give any real forecast, but I believe it allows to visualize why it is best to declare quaranteen to make sure people stay at home.

The Excel provides a page in Portuguese, English, German and Spanish. Feel free to share or do whatever you want with it (except fake news of course).

I think more resilent people will perhaps better understand what is going on.

Also, it becomes clear how long this pandemic might endure and/or the releation between more deaths and short pandemic period or less death within a longer pandemic period.

While I am open to suggestion to improve the Excel and would really love to see a BETTER Excel sheet, I am not in the mood to discuss how poor or badly made it is: if you dislike it, just don't use it!

On a different topic: I believe that one of the biggest aspects of this pandemic and the way societies are handling it, is in fact the mental health. People are not used to be confined at home for days, especially with the family 24/7. We lack social interaction, friends, alone time, etc.

I would like to start some discussion on this:

1) Use social media! Use software like Skype, Whatsapp, etc. to talk to friends and coworkers! Microsoft has stated that Teams is for free use for private and commercial use during the Covid-19 outbreak. It is great to have live video conference with a group of people. Schedule such a meeting with your colleagues, even if work does not required it: just to socialize, talk and spend some virtual "normal" time.

2) Take 1 hour of alone time and make your house companions aware you need this time (if this is the case). Respect if they need such alone time, too.

3) Invest in routers, access points and high speed internet, so that everyone at home has internet access in their rooms. It is very annoying to have 4 people in one room doing webcalls, online classes, etc.

Share your thoughts and suggestions!

Take care.

Regards,
Vitor

[not1xor1]

Spiriman, Jesus Candel, is apparently of some notoriety in his region, and set a bad example by laughing off the threat when it was far, only to break down and whine and cry out on all channels when the strike hit close to home. He has his balls tied in a knot, if I got the idiom translated correctly.

it has been the same here with politicians who, just to oppose the government continuously changed their position:
- "stricter rules" (they meant a nonsensical quarantine just for Chinese children in January),
- "it is just a cold", after the government started to put some restrictions,
- a few days later some politicians of the same party asked for much stricter quarantine rules, others for a stop to quarantine...

they are just crazy... in all this madness they are just able to think about propaganda
the reality is that nobody knew anything about this virus, many of WHO initial assumptions have failed and most countries in the world never had to face a similar situation

[vodka]

Western doctors are saying masks do nothing unless you are already infected. But these Chinese doctors all are wearing masks, most of them cheapo surgical masks, not P95's.

What makes the West correct?

To make like Spiriman: Jesus Candel.  When the threat was far, laught and  without giving importance because the covid is seemd to the "cold" (no flu) . When the plague arrived and Spiriman is in the 1st frontline.
The balls put him by tie. And he began to scream,cry,gasp by youtube and TV about of dangerousnes of the covid. Furthermore, he had info about their italian mates.

Here,this is the video  of the Joan Planas that teardown to hypocrit of Jesus Candel.

https://youtu.be/UxlwLaGHxQE

You do realise that this makes no sense to anybody, don't you. Not the content, the language. I literally cannot even guess what you're trying to say. Are you using Google translate or something similar to post your messages? It just comes out as word salad.

I think it's clear enough. Go exercise your pattern matching a little bit and you'll be able to make sense of it. Yes, he's probably using Google translate, from Spanish, I guess.

Spiriman, Jesus Candel, is apparently of some notoriety in his region, and set a bad example by laughing off the threat when it was far, only to break down and whine and cry out on all channels when the strike hit close to home. He has his balls tied in a knot, if I got the idiom translated correctly.

My wrong is not have done a little introduction about of the Jesus Candel. 

 About the expresion "He has his balls tied in a knot." In spanish is "Tiene los huevos por corbata " that means to be scared or terrified.

Aclaration:
huevos = testicles
corbata =tie(pice of clothes)

[Marco]

Japan didn't manage that not so badly after all

Japan didn't do much of anything, except close schools earlier.

[not1xor1]

..
OK thanks... that seems more believable... it looks like the newspaper has been fooled by the Czech activist - he may have been in good faith too - so it is likely just another misunderstanding in this messy situation

The Czechia and Slovakia have special regulation in power currently, and for example in Czechia for spreading misleading information you may serve for 8 years behind bars..

I'm sure they can't persecute Italian journalists, in any case I wrote to that newspaper (they were reporting a piece of news from a further Italian source) asked them to check your link and retract or correct the article

thanks again

[iMo]

To wear or not to wear - that is the question.

You may observe the numbers in Czechia and Slovakia with the hardest measures in EU, recalled ~10d back. They say they are leading in EU.

Wearing the face mask outside your home in CZ is mandatory, in SK required (and all wear it), it runs that way for at least a weak already, afaik.

You cannot source the off the shelf masks for the entire population today. People do DIY ones, it became a national hobby.

Those mask protect people around you from the droplets you are breathing OUT. Even with a simple textile-DIY-one it is expected at least 30% effectiveness of the FFP3 one (some say 90%). That is a pretty good number provided the masks are worn by everybody. The social distancing is required as well.

Below a shot of the new Slovakian government appointed today

[thinkfat]

Spiriman, Jesus Candel, is apparently of some notoriety in his region, and set a bad example by laughing off the threat when it was far, only to break down and whine and cry out on all channels when the strike hit close to home. He has his balls tied in a knot, if I got the idiom translated correctly.

it has been the same here with politicians who, just to oppose the government continuously changed their position:
- "stricter rules" (they meant a nonsensical quarantine just for Chinese children in January),
- "it is just a cold", after the government started to put some restrictions,
- a few days later some politicians of the same party asked for much stricter quarantine rules, others for a stop to quarantine...

they are just crazy... in all this madness they are just able to think about propaganda
the reality is that nobody knew anything about this virus, many of WHO initial assumptions have failed and most countries in the world never had to face a similar situation

Wasn't it the "Lega" man Salvini who pushed to keep all borders open when the threat became apparent? But I guess others chimed in quickly. It's been the same here, politicians acted timidly in the beginning only to now trump each other with increasingly severe measures to stop the spread.

[vodka]

Spiriman, Jesus Candel, is apparently of some notoriety in his region, and set a bad example by laughing off the threat when it was far, only to break down and whine and cry out on all channels when the strike hit close to home. He has his balls tied in a knot, if I got the idiom translated correctly.

it has been the same here with politicians who, just to oppose the government continuously changed their position:
- "stricter rules" (they meant a nonsensical quarantine just for Chinese children in January),
- "it is just a cold", after the government started to put some restrictions,
- a few days later some politicians of the same party asked for much stricter quarantine rules, others for a stop to quarantine...

they are just crazy... in all this madness they are just able to think about propaganda
the reality is that nobody knew anything about this virus, many of WHO initial assumptions have failed and most countries in the world never had to face a similar situation

Worse, because  he is urgency doctor from Granada  and he has a lot information about of Italian situation. Futhermore, he said that the italian public healthcare is less quality than the spanish public healthcare when  Italy was 1000 deaths.

[vodka]

To wear or not to wear - that is the question.

You may observe the numbers in Czechia and Slovakia with the hardest measures in EU, recalled ~10d back. They say they are leading in EU.

Wearing the face mask outside your home in CZ is mandatory, in SK required (and all wear it), it runs that way for at least a weak already, afaik.

You cannot source the off the shelf masks for the entire population today. People do DIY ones, it became a national hobby.

Those mask protect people around you from the droplets you are breathing OUT. Even with a simple textile-DIY-one it is expected at least 30% effectiveness of the FFP3 one (some say 90%). That is a pretty good number provided the masks are worn by everybody. The social distancing is required as well.

Below a shot of the new Slovakian government appointed today

While they don't do massive fast-test for detecting  infecteds and they know that zones are more infected and  it isolates. It is lost battle.

[nctnico]

Below a shot of the new Slovakian government appointed today

It makes me wonder which part of the dress of the lady in the middle is now missing.