Covid 19 virus

[pipe2null]

I have good news and I have bad news.

It's April Fools day...  in the middle of a pandemic.

[Rick Law]

Those of my generation grew up seeing the USA as the immensely practical "can do" country, who could take on any disaster properly, & prevail.

We saw that start to come apart with Hurricane Katrina, & it is worse with this crisis.
What the hell happened, USA?

the same hell that happened all over the world
that is what happens when the freedom of the market comes before the freedom and the rights of real people
...
...
I even read that in the US, a couple of days ago, a 17 years old boy died of COVID-19 just  because he could not afford to pay the hospital while yesterday mr Trump promised to help Italy with health devices for a value of 100 millions of USD

that does make little sense given that even the US have a lack of those devices while the contagion in the most stricken parts of Italy is already decreasing and probably Spain might need them more than us now
...

In the USA, law exist that an acute patient cannot be rejected by any hospital - even private hospitals.  The patient must be stabilized and under no immediate danger before they can let the patient leave.  Law is one thing, hospitals and emergency rooms are in practice a chaotic place.  I had to visit the emergency room on a couple of occasions - had the wait-time for the 2nd visit been as long as the 1st visit, my wife would probably have died waiting.  If you can wait, they will see you - insured or not.  Died while waiting - well, happens to the insured and uninsured.

That 17 year old who died may not be in the USA.  Besides being rejected by hospital which is hard to believe, according to CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR March 26 update (with corrections)^[1]), there is no confirmed deaths for anyone at or below 19 years old.  I have been monitoring.  Over the weekend, I read about an unconfirmed case of an infant, but clearly 17 year old would not be an infant.

As to the lack of equipment or tests, most irresponsible government (local, state or federal) let their stand-by equipment unreplenished.  The prior administration let the stock went near empty.  No one noticed until they need the surge-stock.

Right now, New York is our worst State in terms of cases.  Of the (approx) 160K positive cases in the USA, almost 70K are in NY state - NY City alone has over 40K cases.  According to "VENTILATOR ALLOCATION GUIDELINES" developed by New York State Department of Health in Nov 2015^[2], they had practically no surge capacity.  Of the 8991 ventilators which included the 1750 intended for surge, 85% are already in use.  Simple math said they were dipping into the emergence stockpile even in normal times.  Expansion was necessary since at least 2015 as stated in the report.   I am sure many other States are in similar situation.  Spend the money on extra pension and perks instead of stocking up for rainy days.

The Federal government was in similar situation.  H1N1 (swine flu), Ebola, (etc.) used up plenty of stock and was not replenished.

With the Federal Government's declaration of emergency, it gave the Feds the power (DPA) to force industries to produce certain products needed by the nation to deal with the emergency.  Many corporations already responded without DPA, but at least one did need the influence of DPA before getting moving.  So, we have plenty of manufacturing capacity coming on-line, soon.  Trump is rather generous - with expectation that we will soon be able to make more than we need, he is offering those anticipated excesses to help others.  As to it could be too late then, well, that is as fast as it can happen.  If we don't need it by then, all the better for having recovered from an emergency sooner rather than later.

As to "same hell that happened all over the world..."  Yeah, profit before the "good of others" is all over the world.  I am however sure it is just being profit-driven that brought "hell over the world".  Case and point: the selfish people who just want their "spring break at the beach" risk infecting others just so they have a good time.  Clearly, "spring break" has no profit in it for the spring-breakers.  So, this is my opinion: I think most kids (most people) now are a bit too self-centered and a bit too soft (lacking grit or the ability to deal with dirty/difficult circumstances) to deal with reality.  They want freedom, but how many are willing to bleed to defend it?

References:

[1] CDC MMWR March 26 update
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm

[2] "VENTILATOR ALLOCATION GUIDELINES" developed by New York State Department of Health
https://www.health.ny.gov/regulations/task_force/reports_publications/docs/ventilator_guidelines.pdf

[Rick Law]

while the contagion in the most stricken parts of Italy is already decreasing

That's why I said before not to worry too much. Once the politicians realized their ideology is no match to nature's power, things will go to the good direction pretty quickly.
In a week or two, the US will start to see decreasing daily new cases too.

USA wide is just over two weeks but differs greatly depending on State.  According to University of Washington’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) projection, the USA cumulative is April 16 peak.

By state:
Vermont, NY, NJ are the earliest peaking April 9;
Michigan, Connecticut, Louisiana peaks April 10;
skipping to number 23...
Georgia, Mississippi,North Carolina peaks April 22.
Last to peak are Maryland on May 14 and Virginia on May 17.

So, we will be sweating it out on different dates...

[Electro Detective]

...and the EEVblog member body bag and or life support machine count so far is.. ?

same as last week or less? 

[bd139]

I think I've had it. On tail end now. No body bag required yet. 

[Marco]

I even read that in the US, a couple of days ago, a 17 years old boy died of COVID-19 just  because he could not afford to pay the hospital

If I went to a hospital emergency room for something they deemed a non emergency, I would be billed too. I always have the option to get seen by a doctor any way, so in that respect I'm better off, but there's a good chance I'd go to the general practitioners office instead to save myself a significant amount of money ... and if very unlucky collapse in the street.

[SerieZ]

I have been following the numbers on a website called worldometer and the only largely affected country I feel is being accurately presenting numbers is Spain.
They also have the largest amount of people in Critical Condition.
I cannot help but feel that the other countries, including my own, are being either very arbitrary, out of resources or unwilling to present correct numbers.

The word feel has been underlines to emphasize that I obviously cannot confirm the numbers myself.
I am curios what you people think.

[Kilrah]

Of course numbers will be estimations, nobody is doing large scale testing.

A friend of mine ended up in hospital twice, and wasn't tested. His symptoms weren't particularly characteristic and nobody directly told him "that's because of the virus". But when asking why he wasn't tested he was answered "well we're pretty sure you have it anyway".

The measures put in place are designed more as a general "anybody might have it, prevent them from transmitting it further" than targeted efforts, which IMO makes sense due to the long incubation period completely blurring everything so there isn't much to gain by paying for tests.

[PlainName]

...and the EEVblog member body bag and or life support machine count so far is.. ?

same as last week or less? 

How would we know? Does the afterlife have an internet connection?

[vodka]

I have been following the numbers on a website called worldometer and the only largely affected country I feel is being accurately presenting numbers is Spain.

accurately?? 

https://www.elconfidencial.com/espana/2020-04-01/mayor-residencia-espana-ume-cadaveres-camaras-coronavirus_2527956/
https://translate.google.es/translate?hl=es&sl=es&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.metropoliabierta.com%2Fdistritos%2Fsant-andreu%2F31-muertos-residencia-ancianos-sant-andreu_25844_102.html
https://translate.google.es/translate?hl=es&sl=es&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elmundo.es%2Fespana%2F2020%2F04%2F01%2F5e8487d0fc6c83996f8b45f4.html

How did they die,with or by COVID19?   I answer you, anybody make autopsies to these deaths. Therefore, they aren't counted like deaths by  covid19  else like "natural cause".

[Cerebus]

Nonsense, hazmat suits are heavily restricted objects/systems.

That's a faintly ridiculous thing to say, protective clothing and equipment is not the sort of thing that, in any sane country, falls into the category of "heavily restricted objects/systems".

Respirators and suits providing significant protection against chemical and biological agents (actual hazmat suits) are dual use products.
https://dsgl.defence.gov.au/dsglcontent/Pages/1A004.aspx
Not something you can just stroll down to the local shops and buy.

Dual use = export controlled. People around here buy dual use things all the time, fast FPGAs, thermal cameras. A couple of weeks back I had to complete an end user certificate to import a very ordinary FPGA board from the US because it is classified as dual use. Buying similar things domestically  without importing them happens with no paper work at all. I note that the DSGL list you pointed to includes full face respirators in the same category - are you really trying to tell us that your government treats these as "highly restricted" and one could not wander down to the local supplier of equipment to car resprayers and just pick one off the shelf? You certainly could here, I have done.

[Cerebus]

...and the EEVblog member body bag and or life support machine count so far is.. ?

same as last week or less? 

How would we know? Does the afterlife have an internet connection?

Must have, I've seen many posts on the Internet from people who are obviously brain dead.

[Mr. Scram]

In the USA, law exist that an acute patient cannot be rejected by any hospital - even private hospitals.  The patient must be stabilized and under no immediate danger before they can let the patient leave.  Law is one thing, hospitals and emergency rooms are in practice a chaotic place.  I had to visit the emergency room on a couple of occasions - had the wait-time for the 2nd visit been as long as the 1st visit, my wife would probably have died waiting.  If you can wait, they will see you - insured or not.  Died while waiting - well, happens to the insured and uninsured.

That 17 year old who died may not be in the USA.  Besides being rejected by hospital which is hard to believe, according to CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR March 26 update (with corrections)^[1]), there is no confirmed deaths for anyone at or below 19 years old.  I have been monitoring.  Over the weekend, I read about an unconfirmed case of an infant, but clearly 17 year old would not be an infant.

As to the lack of equipment or tests, most irresponsible government (local, state or federal) let their stand-by equipment unreplenished.  The prior administration let the stock went near empty.  No one noticed until they need the surge-stock.

Right now, New York is our worst State in terms of cases.  Of the (approx) 160K positive cases in the USA, almost 70K are in NY state - NY City alone has over 40K cases.  According to "VENTILATOR ALLOCATION GUIDELINES" developed by New York State Department of Health in Nov 2015^[2], they had practically no surge capacity.  Of the 8991 ventilators which included the 1750 intended for surge, 85% are already in use.  Simple math said they were dipping into the emergence stockpile even in normal times.  Expansion was necessary since at least 2015 as stated in the report.   I am sure many other States are in similar situation.  Spend the money on extra pension and perks instead of stocking up for rainy days.

The Federal government was in similar situation.  H1N1 (swine flu), Ebola, (etc.) used up plenty of stock and was not replenished.

With the Federal Government's declaration of emergency, it gave the Feds the power (DPA) to force industries to produce certain products needed by the nation to deal with the emergency.  Many corporations already responded without DPA, but at least one did need the influence of DPA before getting moving.  So, we have plenty of manufacturing capacity coming on-line, soon.  Trump is rather generous - with expectation that we will soon be able to make more than we need, he is offering those anticipated excesses to help others.  As to it could be too late then, well, that is as fast as it can happen.  If we don't need it by then, all the better for having recovered from an emergency sooner rather than later.

As to "same hell that happened all over the world..."  Yeah, profit before the "good of others" is all over the world.  I am however sure it is just being profit-driven that brought "hell over the world".  Case and point: the selfish people who just want their "spring break at the beach" risk infecting others just so they have a good time.  Clearly, "spring break" has no profit in it for the spring-breakers.  So, this is my opinion: I think most kids (most people) now are a bit too self-centered and a bit too soft (lacking grit or the ability to deal with dirty/difficult circumstances) to deal with reality.  They want freedom, but how many are willing to bleed to defend it?

References:

[1] CDC MMWR March 26 update
[url]https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm[/url]

[2] "VENTILATOR ALLOCATION GUIDELINES" developed by New York State Department of Health
[url]https://www.health.ny.gov/regulations/task_force/reports_publications/docs/ventilator_guidelines.pdf[/url]

A small and specific set of people seems to pick up on a lot of inflammatory news without credible sources. They seem to either be in it to stir unrest or lost their cool in the face of a crisis. This turns out to be a great time to evaluate who you can depend on in a crisis. Many people turn out to be surprisingly practical or cool-headed, while some just turn to mush or panic to the point and becoming a huge liability.

[Mr. Scram]

This is sort of an interesting take on the whole coronavirus thing here in the US, just ignore the title.

When the guy starts by listing who to blame you know you're in for a shit show. It's a virus, a force of nature. No one responded wholly appropriately and no one could really know how so fair dinkum. Making this into a partisan or nationalist thing is backwards. How about we omit the playground justice and fix this problem best we can?

[nctnico]

...and the EEVblog member body bag and or life support machine count so far is.. ?

same as last week or less? 

Look at the stats and see who hasn't been active for a couple of days.

[Nominal Animal]

I'm dead, but only on the inside.

[Cerebus]

This turns out to be a great time to evaluate who you can depend on in a crisis. Many people turn out to be surprisingly practical or cool-headed, while some just turn to mush or panic to the point and becoming a huge liability.

Well, I think it's a pretty well known phenomenon that bad times bring out the best in some people and the worst in some other people.

When the guy starts by listing who to blame you know you're in for a shit show. It's a virus, a force of nature. No one responded wholly appropriately and no one could really know how so fair dinkum. Making this into a partisan or nationalist thing is backwards. How about we omit the playground justice and fix this problem best we can?

As far as the partisan and nationalist types getting things backwards that's hardly surprising. When you are a bit backwards yourself, and have belief systems that hinge more on doctrine and less on fact (more so than most other people's grasp of the world does) you're bound to get things backward.

[Zero999]

This contains some recent data on how people with different health conditions (comorbidities) do with the virus once in hospital in the UK:

https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/b5f59585-5870-ea11-9124-00505601089b

So, yes, as suggested earlier, being fat is really bad. But that's obvious generally.

There are no strong people in the UK, all fat? In numbers I'm obese, in life I'm not... Where would that leave me?

BMI is the most stupid number ever invented. It presumes very low muscle and bone mass i.e. it presumes that most of the body weight comes from body fat..

True, BMI is just a rule of thumb, but it's still true that most people with a BMI >30 are fat rather than muscular and I doubt any of the patients were body builders.

[Mr. Scram]

Well, I think it's a pretty well known phenomenon that bad times bring out the best in some people and the worst in some other people.

As far as the partisan and nationalist types getting things backwards that's hardly surprising. When you are a bit backwards yourself, and have belief systems that hinge more on doctrine and less on fact (more so than most other people's grasp of the world does) you're bound to get things backward.

The benefit of the current situation is that it's so wide scale and also that many people aren't really directly involved. They just need to sit tight and behave, but there's already enough pressure applied to reveal the cracks. Though I won't deny a significant amount of people are going through hell, for many intents and purposes it can be almost considered a dry run for a "real" disaster.

[Mr. Scram]

For pet owners: Harbin vet science center, the only other Chinese P4 lab, has published a research on domesticated animal carrying the virus.

Put it simple, cats and ferrets can spread the virus, dogs can rarely spread the virus, and other common domesticated animals like pigs, chickens, ducks, etc., cannot get infected and spread the virus.

However, considering your pets only stay in close contact with your family, if it gets the virus, it must have gotten it from your family, so there is no need to be scared of your cats.

As for feral and wild cats, it's better to stay away from them for a while.

It sounds like "outside cats" could bring it home if the reported is true. Do you have a link? This is the kind of information everyone wants to triple check before relaying it.

[nctnico]

I'm dead, but only on the inside.

The upside is that the smell stays inside too 

[Mr. Scram]

True, BMI is just a rule of thumb, but it's still true that most people with a BMI >30 are fat rather than muscular and I doubt any of the patients were body builders.

Not to mention that a large muscle mass stresses the body like fat does in many ways. The heart still has to work harder to deal with the added weight and requirements, joints are still stressed more and the list goes on. It's better to have a healthy heart than a fatty heart but muscle mass still adds stress.

[Nominal Animal]

I'm dead, but only on the inside.

The upside is that the smell stays inside too 

Definitely not when I eat beans or onions or cabbage

[maginnovision]

When the guy starts by listing who to blame you know you're in for a shit show. It's a virus, a force of nature. No one responded wholly appropriately and no one could really know how so fair dinkum. Making this into a partisan or nationalist thing is backwards. How about we omit the playground justice and fix this problem best we can?

That's sort of his shtick. I usually don't pay attention to much of his commentary stuff as I commonly disagree. Sometimes I do find it pretty funny how worked up he gets. He's basically a hippy who refuses to pick a side but also gets very worked up and assigns blame. That's been less apparent in some of his coronavirus videos.

Edit: I've been watching and reading news a lot since I can't do a lot else. Don't worry this isn't the only place I get news from(yes, this one was more 40/60 news/commentary if I remember right), it's just the funniest one and has an accurate timeline of what happened here.

[mrflibble]

Lots of indepth discussion on the thought provoking video content. meh.