EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[drussell]

If the PCB is on the negative side, you still have to place a new nipple on top of the existing one to get access to and extend the positive terminal. So now you've extended the battery by the PCB thickness on the negative side and at least 1mm on the positive side.

Well, no you would not have to add another isolated contact on the top if you put the circuitry on the negative end but you would still have to connect a wire or sleeve or something to the top terminal, so it makes absolutely no sense to do it that way.  You need to isolate one end or the other through your boost converter but not both.  The other end only needs a connection for reference and power supply for the converter chip regardless of connected load.

Can we please now let this positive/negative end stuff rest?  Electrically you can obviously do it from either end, the electrons don't care but I think most people will agree there is usually more space around the positive "button" end.  Enough said!

This is detracting from the actual engineering and debunking subject at hand! 

[quad]

New update from Bob on IGG:

In text form (you guys are going to want to quote this one!):

Dear Indiegogo supporters,

I want to personally thank each and every one of you for continuing to support us while patiently waiting for your orders. I know that some of you are concerned and frustrated by this delay, but rest assured that we have not forgotten you, and shipping your Batterisers to all of our backers is still our highest priority.

We are constantly pushing our contract manufacturer in China to expedite the process so that we can have the final Batterisers ready to ship as soon as possible. Unfortunately, as a small startup competing with larger established corporations for the contract manufacturer's time, our influence and pressure can only go so far. Though we are currently aiming for a February ship date, we still do not have enough information from China to provide a firm shipping date.  Thankfully, by next week, we will have a more solid understanding of the timeline and will be in the best position to provide our backers a projected shipping date. We promise to send you all another update at that time.

While you are waiting for delivery of your Batterisers, I also want to inform you that our engineering team has made a great deal of progress developing a Batteriser for 9 volt batteries.   As a token of our appreciation for your support, we have decided to send every single one of our Indiegogo backers a free 9 Volt Batteriser. The expected release of the 9v Batteriser will be in 2016, and proudly, our Indiegogo supporters will be the very first to enjoy it.   

Sincerely,
Bob Roohparvar
CEO

Screenshot:

[Fungus]

I've been banned on Facebook again... 

[jippie]

So poorly handled, just some more excuses, with NO information.

I'm under the impression that they hired someone to do communications through several social networks. They're probably paying for some given number of messages per week or per month on Twitter, hence all the unrelated posts. Same for Facebook, their messages show little to no actual or current inside knowledge on the topic. Feels as if the communications department has about as much information as we have and are making up today's story as they seem fit.

What I really don't understand is why they're doing seemingly "official" Batteriser updates through Facebook rather than Indigogo where all backers have an account and are automatically notified about updates. If I buy a product from a webshop, I don't want to receive updates through Facebook, I want them from the webshop itself. The third party thing makes sense to me in this respect.

I had to chuckle when I read this Twitter Batteriser update linking to an article "[...] Battery Saving Tricks that Actually Work".

[drussell]

I've been banned on Facebook again... 

LOL, yeah... 

I only log into facebook about once a year but I logged in the other day just to reply to a comment on the Batteriser page.  Surprise, surprise, it never even publically showed up!  Yeah, big surprise!  (It wasn't even nasty!)

They are completely sanitizing anything that even remotely critical of their product.  That may be part of the reason they are "communicating" more on facebook than IndieGoGo.  They probably have more moderation control over their facebook page and thus can keep a better grip on the "everything is roses" facade.  Not that they haven't been sanitizing their IGG page, of course....   

[mikerj]

A February ship date; perfectly setting up the "Chinese New Year" excuse.

[EEVblog]

So, they are still "testing" their product.....right.  So they don't even have any mass production going on? or what?  It is interesting their back-and-forth on each and every excuse of the day

Who is actually behind their Facebook page posting this stuff?
Indiegogo comments are clearly Bob himself, but Facebook?
Sounds like another person who doesn't reallt represent the company just like that idiot fool from the "Fan" Youtube page

[EEVblog]

What I really don't understand is why they're doing seemingly "official" Batteriser updates through Facebook rather than Indigogo where all backers have an account and are automatically notified about updates.

Accountability.
Bob is clearly the owner of the indigogo page, and only he and a couple of other official company people (Ali) are allowed to post on there. Bobs photo shows up on every post, so he's very careful what he says over there.

If I buy a product from a webshop, I don't want to receive updates through Facebook, I want them from the webshop itself. The third party thing makes sense to me in this respect.

The problem is people are interacting on Facebook. If they want an official response then they should post on Indiegogo.

[EEVblog]

NEW UPDATE ON IGG!

Dear Indiegogo supporters,

I want to personally thank each and every one of you for continuing to support us while patiently waiting for your orders. I know that some of you are concerned and frustrated by this delay, but rest assured that we have not forgotten you, and shipping your Batterisers to all of our backers is still our highest priority.

We are constantly pushing our contract manufacturer in China to expedite the process so that we can have the final Batterisers ready to ship as soon as possible. Unfortunately, as a small startup competing with larger established corporations for the contract manufacturer's time, our influence and pressure can only go so far. Though we are currently aiming for a February ship date, we still do not have enough information from China to provide a firm shipping date.  Thankfully, by next week, we will have a more solid understanding of the timeline and will be in the best position to provide our backers a projected shipping date. We promise to send you all another update at that time.

While you are waiting for delivery of your Batterisers, I also want to inform you that our engineering team has made a great deal of progress developing a Batteriser for 9 volt batteries.   As a token of our appreciation for your support, we have decided to send every single one of our Indiegogo backers a free 9 Volt Batteriser. The expected release of the 9v Batteriser will be in 2016, and proudly, our Indiegogo supporters will be the very first to enjoy it.   

Sincerely,
Bob Roohparvar
CEO

 Bob Roohparvar

So just the usual working to ward getting a "solid understanding of the timeline" 

Interestingly no mention of the Energizer trademark dispute. That's kinda something financial backers of the company should be aware of.

[EEVblog]

A February ship date; perfectly setting up the "Chinese New Year" excuse.

A February ship date is impossible when you are still working to "be in the best position to provide our backers a projected shipping date."
Next update will be the Chinese new year excuse, you don't want to blow your wad on that doozy yet.

[EEVblog]

Bob's greatest hits. His last 13 comments.
He could have saved himself a whole lot of bother if he was just honest about what's going on.
And of course the old adage a picture tells a thousand words.

[PeterL]

What I really don't understand is why they're doing seemingly "official" Batteriser updates through Facebook rather than Indigogo where all backers have an account and are automatically notified about updates.

Accountability.
Bob is clearly the owner of the indigogo page, and only he and a couple of other official company people (Ali) are allowed to post on there. Bobs photo shows up on every post, so he's very careful what he says over there.

There is a link to this facebook page on their IGG page, that makes it official enough to me. They promote it themselves, so IMHO they're taking responsibility for whatever is being said there in the name of Batteriser.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

Batteroo could take control of the situation by posting a few photographs. Any photo of a box full of sleeves, or a panel of blank or assembled circuit boards would go a long way to shut people up.

It is ironic, that Bob used to work for Flextronics, one of the worlds top tier contract manufacturers and Batteroo is claiming they are having CM problems 

I would have some of the pieces shipped to the US and have them assembled here. If you are building a 100,000 pieces there has to be some available.

And now we have the 9V Batteriser with no information. Here is a 9V battery datasheet:



This will have to grow by 2 to 2.5mm.

They say the release of the 9V version is 2016, I would assume that they mean they will ship the 9V battery after they have shipped the 1.5V versions.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[Fungus]

Batteroo could take control of the situation by posting a few photographs. Any photo of a box full of sleeves, or a panel of blank or assembled circuit boards would go a long way to shut people up.

What sleeves?

I would have some of the pieces shipped to the US and have them assembled here. If you are building a 100,000 pieces there has to be some available.

What 'pieces'?

I still say it's all lies and will end in some catastrophic event that means they can't ship them and don't have enough money to solve the problem.

(this will be after the Chinese new year delay, obviously...)

[madires]

And now we have the 9V Batteriser with no information. Here is a 9V battery datasheet:

This will have to grow by 2 to 2.5mm.

They say the release of the 9V version is 2016, I would assume that they mean they will ship the 9V battery after they have shipped the 1.5V versions.

A 9V Batteriser is utter nonsense. The voltage of a 9V battery nearing its end plummets under load. No current for a boost converter. 

[rrinker]

 Just another data point - A while back I bought this fancy laptop mouse (big name brand) only to have the left button pretty much stop working after a month. In frustration I got some cheap Chinese mouse at WalMart and - it's been great, nearly 3 years old, and it works great and is able to work down to a very low voltage. No, I've not taken it apart - yet. I know, fail...  Anyway, I got a new (old) multimeter (Fluke 45) and it arrived yesterday. First thing I had to grab to test it was a battery from my mouse - got a reading of 1.15V and the mouse is still working great. A fresh battery (I always carry spares) registered 1.58V, both under no load other than the meter's 10M input impedance. I'm now sufficiently curious to see what the battery reads when the mouse finally stops working and demands a fresh battery. Another one to file under the "already incorporates a boost converter" devices - I think this thing was $8.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Batteroo could take control of the situation by posting a few photographs. Any photo of a box full of sleeves, or a panel of blank or assembled circuit boards would go a long way to shut people up.

What sleeves?

I would have some of the pieces shipped to the US and have them assembled here. If you are building a 100,000 pieces there has to be some available.

What 'pieces'?

I still say it's all lies and will end in some catastrophic event that means they can't ship them and don't have enough money to solve the problem.

(this will be after the Chinese new year delay, obviously...)

I was assuming that the contract manufacturer has done something...

Maybe one of the backers could ask for a few photographs? 

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[Nerull]

I think the only devices I own with 9v batteries are DMMs and smoke alarms, and most people don't have DMMs. Disabling the low battery chirp on smoke alarms - a wonderful idea.

[free_electron]

I predict a meteor will strike the assembly plant and destroy the master files.

[gore]

While you are waiting for delivery of your Batterisers, I also want to inform you that our engineering team has made a great deal of progress developing a Batteriser for 9 volt batteries.   As a token of our appreciation for your support, we have decided to send every single one of our Indiegogo backers a free 9 Volt Batteriser. The expected release of the 9v Batteriser will be in 2016, and proudly, our Indiegogo supporters will be the very first to enjoy it.   

Sure they will, along with a Tesla Model S and a trip to low earth orbit for every loyal supporter. But in the meantime, it would be nice to get one of those double and triple A things they've been talking about for a while.

[Fungus]

I also want to inform you that our engineering team has made a great deal of progress developing a Batteriser for 9 volt batteries.

Pics of the 'team' working in the lab?

PS: I love how they have a "team" for everything.    Do they make coffee in teams, too? Answer the phone in teams? Go to the toilet in teams...?

[photon]

When the word "team" is used, be aware that there is no science or engineering or even business acumen involved. A favorite word of spin doctors.

[EEVblog]

Batteroo could take control of the situation by posting a few photographs. Any photo of a box full of sleeves, or a panel of blank or assembled circuit boards would go a long way to shut people up.

What sleeves?

And that's the thing. People are going to think they are being scammed and the company is producing nothing if they don't show photos.
Batteroo shouldn't be at all surprised at the response from backers.

[Barny]

Team is a german acronym.

Toll
Ein
Anderer
Machts

English:
Great, another one is doing the work.

But I think the Butteriser guys have outsourced the one working guy

[EEVblog]

I'm now sufficiently curious to see what the battery reads when the mouse finally stops working and demands a fresh battery.

Well, every know knows, thanks to Batteroo's excellent expert and highly technical videos, that you can't possibly use a PSU to measure that because, you know, the ESR isn't the same as a battery. Doesn't matter that the mouse draws practically nothing, it's just WRONG AND MISLEADING AT BEST