EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[digsys]

   I'm reminded of:  "Dodgy Brothers"   

Ahhhh that's it ! I loved that show. But Roohparvar looks almost identical to Victor, the Russian from that show. Just played some of his clips from Fast Foward.

[quad]

Things are heating up in the IGG comments section:

[Brumby]

Bob - the broken record:

[Fungus]

What does he mean by next update....that would imply a 'previous' update wouldn't it? 

(and so far his "understanding" of our frustration has been shown by him deleting our posts...)

[Kjelt]

To me, Roohparvar just looks like a shonk. There is something about that smirk that says "I'm full of shit".

What is a "shonk"? Google translate can not help me. Is it something like a "slick" ?

[PA0PBZ]

What is a "shonk"? Google translate can not help me. Is it something like a "slick" ?

Hmm, I'm not going to repeat that here: http://nl.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Shonk

[Kjelt]

Got it 

[EEVblog]

To me, Roohparvar just looks like a shonk. There is something about that smirk that says "I'm full of shit".

What is a "shonk"? Google translate can not help me. Is it something like a "slick" ?

Shonky in Australia means

adjective
1.
dishonest, unreliable, or illegal, especially in a devious way.
"shonky political goings-on"
noun
1.
a person engaged in suspect business activities.
"we need to rid the building industry of these shonkies quickly"

[Howardlong]

This is going far worse than I expected it to go, at least I expected them to have some product by now. I now seriously doubt they've ever started production despite them having a self proclaimed CEO of a contract manufacturer on their team. It seems clear now that the landslip excuse some weeks ago was just a blatent lie as strongly suspected. Or has the Energizer intervention derailed them?

What's not clear is how this will pan out now. Clearly it's the VCs that are running the show considering their investment and presence on the board, but what those slippery characters are going to make public and what's really going on will be two completely different things. The longer this goes on, the more it'll just quietly go away, to nothing. Which is a shame, I was looking forward to seeing all those 800% use cases.

What it does show is that you can have an expensive team boasting hundreds of patents to their names, with apparently glowing resumes with allegedly tons of industry experience including a CEO of a contract electronics manufacturing company, but that doesn't mean they'll be capable of tying their own shoe laces or organising imbibement at a brewing facility.

The longer this goes on the more I doubt we'll ever see a Batteriser. While we might see the odd further "updates", the chances of them having anything other than wishy washy side stepping is unlikely. The longer they don't come clean, the more the speculation will florish, but they've probably spun so many yarns already that they're struggling to come up with a jackanory that holds water. I just didn't seeing it being this much of a failure.

[EEVblog]

The longer this goes on the more I doubt we'll ever see a Batteriser. While we might see the odd further "updates", the chances of them having anything other than wishy washy side stepping is unlikely. The longer they don't come clean, the more the speculation will florish, but they've probably spun so many yarns already that they're struggling to come up with a jackanory that holds water. I just didn't seeing it being this much of a failure.

I'm still of the opinion that what they really wanted and expected was a huge order from Walmart, Kmart etc (Hence former K-Mart CEO was on their board at one point until he left), but it seems more likely now that plan has all come-a-gutsa and they just don't know what to do. There is no money in fulfilling backer orders, hence their casual disregard all this time.

It's all gone wrong for them:
No big consumer order
No way they can make money from the campaign orders
Massive negative press they didn't expect, which has turned them into an industry joke.
The rejection of the patent, with barely any hope left to fight that.
The huge kick in the guts Energiser Trademark dispute they can't possibly win.

With all that it wouldn't surprise me at all if they (or the investors) throw in the towel. And that would suck, because we'd never get to try one 

[chris_leyson]

And that would suck, because we'd never get to try one 

But at least it would be less batteries going into landfill.

[Muttley Snickers]

Oh well, if worse comes to worst then surely we as a community could perhaps all chip in a few cents each (<5) and buy them out lock, stock and bunnies, we would first need a full inventory of all their elaborate gear and stock at hand though.

1. An unused scope with worn out instructions.
2. A Mastech multimeter, really need I say more.
3. A Garmin Golf GPS, probably lost in a bunker.
4, Some toy bunnies for the kids to chuck about.
5. Some other bits and bobs, we just want the bits.
6. Stock at hand....

Total value including intellectual property = Sweet Fxxx All.

On second thoughts save your coins folks, at least one day they might amount to something substantial.

[Delta]

It's looking more and more like Fungus was right all along...

[Brumby]

I think I am safe to say, this product is will never see the light of day.

It would appear that whatever the reasons behind the scenes, they will want interest to wane slowly over time, with nothing more than deleteable criticism and ignorable protests that might create a minor irritation - which will be forgotten the next day.

Picture a wilting flower that silently drops it's petals one by one until one day there is noting left but a dried out stalk that quietly turns to dust.

Individuals will never get satisfaction - but would a collective voice be any more productive?

[Fungus]

Oh well, if worse comes to worst then surely we as a community could perhaps all chip in a few cents each (<5) and buy them out lock, stock and bunnies

Lock, stock and monkeys...

[Fungus]

It's looking more and more like Fungus was right all along...

The signs were (are!) quite obvious:
a) Bogus claims
b) Nobody ever allowed to try one for themselves
c) Laughable videos and demos (very obvious lies)
d) The had $1 million in venture capital but they went after $30,000 on IndieGoGo. What for? $30,000 wouldn't even cover their lunch expenses for six months.

The only conclusion is that it's a scam. And they're thieves (I have no problem at all in calling them that - they're taking innocent people's money with the full knowledge they're never going to deliver).

They also give the impression of not being nice people, Ali in particular. Jokes about the dumpsters in Milpitas aside: Ali publicly made threats against people who tried to expose the scam (I'm guessing Ali isn't the brains of the duo).

[AlxDroidDev]

The only conclusion is that it's a scam. And they're thieves (I have no problem at all in calling them that - they're taking innocent people's money with the full knowledge they're never going to deliver).

Calling them thieves is putting it politely. They're much worse than that. Calling them scumbags is still not nearly enough to describe what these people are. I'll refrain from using the actual words I have in mind so Dave doesn't ban me from the forums.

What I wonder is how long these scumbags will go on with this. They should just terminate the IGG campain page and delete the FB page so everybody can go on with their lives and the journalists and bloggers who praised butteriser can stick it up theirs.

[SL4P]

...Clearly it's the VCs that are running the show considering their investment and presence on the board, but what those slippery characters are going to make public and what's really going on will be two completely different things. The longer this goes on, the more it'll just quietly go away, to nothing. Which is a shame, I was looking forward to seeing all those 800% use cases...

This is a major part of the problem with VCs and many other bulk project funding schemes.
These money pots are often used as legal money laundering / tax sinks to reduce the financial obligations of the top level investors. 
If the project works out and makes money - great.  Spin it off before it becomes 'wealthy in its own right' and invest in other projects... no tax liability.
If it loses money - also great.  investment offsets for tax reduction.
Keep doing this forever, providing >100% tax deductions for the 'risk takers'.
A nice, fair, capital system.

[MLXXXp]

Lock, stock and monkeys...

Or, to be closer to the original figures of speech:
Lock, stock and barrel of monkeys 

[Howardlong]

a) Bogus claims
b) Nobody ever allowed to try one for themselves
c) Laughable videos and demos (very obvious lies)
d) The had $1 million in venture capital

I wonder if uBeam is reading this?

[Wytnucls]

I guess it's not over till the fat lady sings, but what I find the most astonishing in this whole saga is the financial side. A slick presentation of a barely working device was enough to obtain some serious funding from a VC outfit, followed by some substantial backing through a crowdfunding project, with no strings attached. Are people fundamentally stupid or is the slightest promise of a financial reward strong enough to override their common sense?

[Jay_Diddy_B]

It's looking more and more like Fungus was right all along...

The signs were (are!) quite obvious:
a) Bogus claims
b) Nobody ever allowed to try one for themselves
c) Laughable videos and demos (very obvious lies)
d) The had $1 million in venture capital but they went after $30,000 on IndieGoGo. What for? $30,000 wouldn't even cover their lunch expenses for six months.

The only conclusion is that it's a scam. And they're thieves (I have no problem at all in calling them that - they're taking innocent people's money with the full knowledge they're never going to deliver).

They also give the impression of not being nice people, Ali in particular. Jokes about the dumpsters in Milpitas aside: Ali publicly made threats against people who tried to expose the scam (I'm guessing Ali isn't the brains of the duo).

I think that there are few other pieces to the puzzle.

1) The original Patent Application:

US 20120121943 A1 Structure and Method for Extending Battery Life

Was Filed by Fariborz Frankie Roohparvar in September 19, 2011.

This is a long time before the campaign started on IGG.

2) The later Patent application:

US 20150048785 A1 Filed November 3rd, 2014

Lists Bob and Frankie as the inventors. So some of the ownership has been transferred from Frankie to Bob.

We also have Bob's employment history:

March 2011 to September 5th 2012 Bob was President of DigitalOptics Corp.

November 2006 to December 2010 - Flextronics

2005 - 2006 Broadcom

I wonder if Frankie was helping his brother by giving a share of the Batteriser Patent?

As I have said before, Bob and Frankie's product is not the Batteriser, it the Batteriser company. They were hoping to create enough hype to be able to sell the company based on the hype.

Assume for a minute, that they have a product, if they release the product independent testing will show that it is worthless and ruin the chances of selling the company. So for this reason they may not want to release the product.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[drussell]

Are people fundamentally stupid or is the slightest promise of a financial reward strong enough to override their common sense?

Yes.

[Fungus]

Are people fundamentally stupid or is the slightest promise of a financial reward strong enough to override their common sense?

Yes.

The VCs I've spoken to all seem to think, "If only one in ten of these things work then I make money".

The people on IndieGoGo? Proof that P.T.Barnum was right.

The journalists that reprinted the Batteriser press release without even thinking about it? They're partly responsible for people losing their money.

The people at CNET who gave it a "product of the year" rating? I don't even have a suitable word to describe them.

[apis]

We are all monkeys!

But yeah, CNET can't be run by the most clever monkeys around... or they received a very large shipment of bananas.