EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[Macbeth]

I half agree. But the other half of me says Batteroo are being deliberately deceptive with the name and letter change and Energizer have every right to go after them.

...and of course we know one of the possible forthcoming actions on Batteroos part is the sudden "Oh noes! Big corporate lawyers! Destroy our likkle startup! - sorry guys, it's all over - you can thank Big Battery for that!"

I'm sorry, but I want my Schadenfreude to be perfect. Letting the bastards get away with it by invoking stupid corporate lawyers will ruin my fine 20 year old single malt scotch I have on reserve 

[Nerull]

Many photo hosting services automatically strip out EXIF data to prevent someone from accidentally posting personal information, such as imgur. If they really wanted to hide the date they were taken they could simply use one of those.

The idea that they carefully edited individual images to change the exif data is approaching this territory:

[Macbeth]

I think we established the EXIF data has not been stripped... 

[rrinker]

 Posit: We know they have some sort of prototype units, they've showed them off to Yahoo and others, even if the only one that actually seems to 'work' is the one Bob personally demos in the Apple wireless keyboard

Posit: there is nothing in those photos that would indicate production of thousands of these things

Posit: there is no information as to where in the world the photos were taken, just a date.

So, the photos are real, taken on the dates indicated in the EXIF data. However, they are just photos of the same block of prototypes they've had sitting around since they made the ones they've showed around. Nothing new, nothing advanced towards production since 6 or 9 or more months ago. More like a "quick, let's set up a photo before they come after us with pitchforks and torches."

I didn't even see the shims under the clamps at first.  Sort of reinforces my theory of a hastily arranged photo shoot to placate the masses - it was too wobbly and they didn't know/couldn't be bothered with properly adjusting the clamps, just quick slide something under there to stabilize it for the picture.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi group,

I think that this jig:



is for molding the epoxy (or whatever it is) resin to cover the components.

There look to set screws to adjust the finger that masks the positive battery terminal.

The result of the epoxy pour looks like this:



So I think that the test boards. They have the highest components on them, the ceramic capacitors.

So this looks like an experiment in manufacturing techniques, as oppose to evidence that the Batterisers are being manufactured.

This picture doesn't look like the right schematic:



If the photographs are dated 3rd of March, why did they wait 4 weeks to release them?

I still think that they are long way from production.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[ChunkyPastaSauce]

I think the jig is for the conformal coating / epoxy as well

Everything they showed looks like engineering samples/prototyping/low volume stuff to me.........on what they showed, think they're ready for an approx 100,000 production run across 5 variants (AAA,AA,C,D,9V)? 

[LabSpokane]

This picture doesn't look like the right schematic:



I still think that they are long way from production.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

That jig is annotated in english, which would lead me to believe that this photos are not from a Chinese CM, but are from stateside prototyping effort a while back. 

[Fungus]

b) It's not a con and they're actually manufacturing something.

I think it's this, occum's razor and all. The photo dates are real, and they are simply still trying to figure out how to make the things.
That's why they didn't show the photos a month ago when they had them.

These were manufactured before last July:


What have they been doing for the last 10 months?

(Yeah, I know - "dicking around". Hanlon's razor and all...)

[EEVblog]

These were manufactured before last July:
What have they been doing for the last 10 months?
(Yeah, I know - "dicking around". Hanlon's razor and all...)

a) Trying to figure out how to make them in volume
and
b) Trying to figure out how to actually make them work anywhere near their silly claims
and
c) Figuring out that all these annoying engineers on some stupid forum are actually right, and how best to save face and backtrack on their claims
and
d) Trying to convince Walmart/Kmart et.al to buy them. This IGG crap is annoying chump change to them, bets to wait for that big order before shipping to people who will within days prove it's a pretty useless product.

[EEVblog]

The clue ising the picture,  at the top of the jig ... BTR.
This company is situated right where the landslide happened.
Shenzhen BTR New Energy Materials Co., Ltd.
http://www.btrchina.com/
Company Overview
BTR New Energy Materials Inc. manufactures and supplies graphite anode materials for lithium ion battery (LIB). The company offers anode material, including natural graphite, artificial graphite, mesophase carbon microspheres, and power battery materials; and cathode materials. The company also provides conductive materials, such as CNTs and CNFs that are used in lithium ion battery, circuit board spraying ink, super-capacitor, electronics devices, solar cells, and composite materials; conductive graphite products, which are used in lithium ion batteries, lkaline batteries, and super-capacitors; and nano lithium titanate that are used in motive LIB, super-capacitors, and energy storage type ...

Absolutely none of which has anything to do with manufacturing the Batteriser.

[EEVblog]

This picture doesn't look like the right schematic:

Yes, i'm confused by that layout 

[bktemp]

This picture doesn't look like the right schematic:

Yes, i'm confused by that layout 

It looks like a dual synchronous boost converter:
The centre is the positive input and goes to inductors at both sides and to the ic in the middle. All the capacitors must be on the other side.

[Zbig]

(Yeah, I know - "dicking around". Hanlon's razor and all...)

Speaking of razors... Is it me or the prototype looks like it'd be ridiculously easy to slash your hands while handling it? It even has these serrations to cut through the flesh more easily.

[Marcel_X]

This picture doesn't look like the right schematic:

Yes, i'm confused by that layout 

I think this is the PCB for the D cell version. If you compare it with the other one, it is different.
Seems like the D cell version has two inductors in parallel. Probably to increase current, while maintaining a lower overal height.
The other 4 unpopulated footprints could be the 2 caps in the input and output and two resistors for the feedback voltage.

The AA cell version has only one inductor.

[ozwolf]

If I wanted new EXIF data on an old picture, wouldn't I just take a picture of the picture?  Maybe that explains the poor resolution and quality.

Ozwolf

[PeterL]

The clue ising the picture,  at the top of the jig ... BTR.

This company is situated right where the landslide happened.

BTR(on the jig) is probably short for BaTteriseR. And no matter what 3 letter abbreviation you use, chances are you find an electronics related company with that name in Shenzen.

But let's use this to give the landslide thing some perspective.

In this map I marked both the landslide, and the company you mentioned. It may look relative close to each other, but it is roughly 8 kilometres. Where I live that's like on the other side of the next village.

Now we cannot whether or not Batteroo was really affected by this landslide, but look at the map, and calculate the chances yourself.

But people have lost their homes, their dear ones and their lives in this landslide. So using it as an excuse for a delay seems very low if it's not true. But still Bob gave this as an excuse, without even expressing his sympathy to the people who lived there.

[Fungus]

Company Overview
BTR New Energy Materials Inc. manufactures and supplies graphite anode materials for lithium ion battery (LIB). The company offers anode material, including natural graphite, artificial graphite, mesophase carbon microspheres, and power battery materials; and cathode materials. The company also provides conductive materials, such as CNTs and CNFs that are used in lithium ion battery, circuit board spraying ink, super-capacitor, electronics devices, solar cells, and composite materials; conductive graphite products, which are used in lithium ion batteries, lkaline batteries, and super-capacitors; and nano lithium titanate that are used in motive LIB, super-capacitors, and energy storage type ...

Absolutely none of which has anything to do with manufacturing the Batteriser.

Upper left corner of the picture Date, Thats the name of the company that one the jig. 

I think he meant that nothing on that list is related to making Batterisers. It's a materials company, not a PCB/manufacturing company.

[PeterL]

Coindenece that BTR is marked on the tool in the picture...

No, BTR is a perfectly explainable abbreviation for Batteriser, or Batteroo, or Battery. It doesn't mean that the jig is from BTR china. Also, if so, I would expect to see some Chinese signs

A company who is one of the 5 biggest battery product companies in ASIA?

If they are that big, than they know their batteries, and know that batteriser is a joke in which not to invest money.

[Brumby]

If they are a manufacturer, what would they care about a joke?

Make something to the specifications given, take the money and ship it.  Their balance sheet won't care if it's a joke or not.

[EEVblog]

Well, i beg to differ.
Who is BTR`s  biggest competitor?
Energiser and all the BIG battery industry in USA.
Who did Bob say was braiking inn to his office? The big battery companies.
What if Bob just wanted to get inters for his product by faking a burglary? Just to sweeten the idea that someone did see it as a good idea?
Who would he sell  his patent rights to? Who would he, wished he to work with? The big battery companies.
Coincidence that this companies name is in batteries, is in the same place that he claims that he have the Batteriser produced? Within 7 km from the landslide..
Coindenece that BTR is marked on the tool in the picture... A company who is one of the 5 biggest battery product companies in ASIA?
What if he sell in this technology,  to BTR with a another chemical type of battery, that can benefitt from batteriser , buildt into the battery itself?
Judge youself..

Ok, I judge that to be the biggest far flung stretch since the Batteriser claims themselves 

[EEVblog]

If they are a manufacturer, what would they care about a joke?

BTR are not a contract manufacturer. They are chemical company that specialises in batteries. Heck, they don't even do primary batteries, just Lithium Ion tech.

[rich]

Yeah BTR musts stand for Batteriser or Batteroo. Nothing of practical value in BTR's portfolio.

On an unrelated point, I did a search and couldn't find my following speculation listed in this thread before:
A name listed as part of the Batteriser team, shares a name with a linked in profile of a man who is ex-flextronics but currently working for tenpao, a power adapter company. He also worked at a semiconductor manufacturer before that. Coincidence?


And this coming week (11th - 14th April) there is an large Electronics & Components show at Asia World Expo, Hong Kong. I wonder if that's the real reason they are travelling out there and why Bob's April 1st comment of didn't say they were travelling immediately. tenpao are exhibiting which is how I learned of it:
http://www.asiaworld-expo.com/html/en/EventCalendar/EventDetail_18D5E13603144AEDB24CD8ECB02D04DF.html

[Nerull]

I think we established the EXIF data has not been stripped... 

...yes...which is why i said that if they wanted to hide dates, it would be trivial to strip them but they didn't do that.

[ozwolf]

I think we established the EXIF data has not been stripped... 

...yes...which is why i said that if they wanted to hide dates, it would be trivial to strip them but they didn't do that.

As I mentioned earlier, are we sure they haven't taken a picture of an earlier image?  No need to do anything with EXIF data then.

Ozwolf

[rich]

UK distributer just listed Batterisers as coming soon. Only £12.99!

http://www.2tech.co.uk/products/batteriser