Author Topic: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)  (Read 3084599 times)

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Offline free_electron

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2425 on: September 16, 2015, 11:01:23 pm »
164 pages on this battered-poo and still going strong ..
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Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2426 on: September 16, 2015, 11:09:55 pm »
Just read that on the sy-ynergy-77 channel comments from the man himself:

Quote
The trouble is 99% of you "engineers", with your heads in the clouds and up your asses at the same time, never turned a wrench and did anything in the real world. Although I have scholastic aptitude in the upper 1% in mathematics as proven by my name listed in Who's Who, I actually am a person that gets down and dirty in the practical application .   I know many times "engineers can be wrong and the joke "trust me, I an engineer" came into being for a reason.  You have no concern about scammers or else you'd be calling out the liars who kill people with chemo 'treating' cancer,  "Doctor".  I suggest that  if this issue bothers you so much, perhaps you need a prescription for lithium.

Can you post a link or screen capture that?
Is that the "Fan Page" guy or Bob himself? I have not seen Bob comment on youtube video before.
 

Offline robby1995

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2427 on: September 16, 2015, 11:17:39 pm »
Just read that on the sy-ynergy-77 channel comments from the man himself:

Quote
The trouble is 99% of you "engineers", with your heads in the clouds and up your asses at the same time, never turned a wrench and did anything in the real world. Although I have scholastic aptitude in the upper 1% in mathematics as proven by my name listed in Who's Who, I actually am a person that gets down and dirty in the practical application .   I know many times "engineers can be wrong and the joke "trust me, I an engineer" came into being for a reason.  You have no concern about scammers or else you'd be calling out the liars who kill people with chemo 'treating' cancer,  "Doctor".  I suggest that  if this issue bothers you so much, perhaps you need a prescription for lithium.

Can you post a link or screen capture that?
Is that the "Fan Page" guy or Bob himself? I have not seen Bob comment on youtube video before.

I think its a command from this sy-ynergy 77 guy
 

Offline hauptbr09

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2428 on: September 16, 2015, 11:18:14 pm »


From syyenergy7
 

Offline drussell

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2429 on: September 16, 2015, 11:41:58 pm »
Yeah, he's another one of those guys that make me just kind of shake my head in disbelief, I don't even know what to say.  I'd also already seen that muppet video before.  :palm:

How misguided...  when we're talking about some electronic device most of the time the engineers ARE the ones who turn the wrenches and actually build things .  Do engineers (professional or amateur) ever get things wrong?  Most certainly(!) and any good one is more than happy to be proved wrong, that's one of the ways you learn things.  If you apply good, sound, scientific methodology to things like this, you'll always find out the truth.

These guys are all just so far out there that even obvious rational, logical deduction arguments will be lost on them it seems, let alone any kind of scientific-sounding evidence from some us nerdy geeks who obviously have no understanding of how these things work...  Oh my...  :palm:
 

Offline Fsck

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2430 on: September 16, 2015, 11:42:52 pm »
I wonder who he thinks is responsible for his electricity, plumbing and sewage systems
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Offline chadb

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2431 on: September 17, 2015, 12:25:09 am »
 

Offline 5ky

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2432 on: September 17, 2015, 12:53:04 am »
EDN put out another article about batteriser today: http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/brians-brain/4440366/The-Batteriser--defenders-and-detractors

Quote
Additionally, the current range for those devices was around 100 milliamps. If you have watched Dave Jones’ video, he actually brought that up in his video that most likely we have a very limited current range, which is incorrect. These are the reasons we designed our own IC, which works down to 0.5V and is capable of delivering steady state current of 1.3A. Creating an IC as capable as Batteriser’s was the result of over four years of R&D.

So first, they say there's no IP in their product, but now they claim to have made their own chip?  As if a bunch of startup guys can outdo the big hitters who've been perfecting boost converters for 50+ years?  :palm:
 

Offline Mr.B

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2433 on: September 17, 2015, 01:04:39 am »
Quote
...capable of delivering steady state current of 1.3A

Earlier on in the GoGo campaign Bobby Boy answered a question about current and said that it could deliver everything the battery could deliver.
There was of course wide spread doubt here that such a device could deliver in excess of 10A from an AA cell.

So they have backtracked again and revised their deliverables...
I approach the thinking of all of my posts using AI in the first instance. (Awkward Irregularity)
 

Offline Cyco66

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2434 on: September 17, 2015, 01:50:36 am »
It was interesting look through the syyenergy7 Youtube channel as he does seem to like backing scams, he heavily promotes the Spooky Rife machine which is a well known scam, problem with this one is it could cost someone their life. He really is a sad excuse for a human being.
 

Offline DrGeoff

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Was it really supposed to do that?
 

Offline edy

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2436 on: September 17, 2015, 02:12:36 am »
EDN put out another article about batteriser today: http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/brians-brain/4440366/The-Batteriser--defenders-and-detractors


The article says nothing new unfortunately and just argues the same points that have been debunked since the beginning, proof of which is found in this very long thread.

Question 1: Their answer - most devices don't have boost circuits, so that is why Batteriser is useful. My argument: They don't mention that even without boost circuits these devices may run down to a very low cutoff voltage, so the benefit of the Batteriser is limited... but they do state the max output is 1.3 A now.

Question 2: Their answer - some circular argument about how devices have boost circuits in them, therefore there is obviously a use to it... so that validates the benefit of a Batteriser, otherwise why would most devices use a boost circuit? My argument: Again, nobody is arguing that a boost circuit can or cannot be beneficial for certain devices. It is very device dependent and engineered in there for a reason, and turned on during certain thresholds (not running all the time like Batteriser)... Although we don't know what Batteriser does, it may indeed have a cutoff that triggers the boosting... But as a previous user said in this thread, every device has a different cutoff and so how would the Batteriser be "set" to know every single device out there and use the appropriate cutoff? Only a device engineered with a preset cutoff level booster would work optimally.

They also bring up Zinniker's table showing % of batteries in garbage that have certain % capacity left.... As explained a few pages ago, this is a cumulative plot and you must carefully understand what the numbers mean and read Zinniker's full article to get all the nuances involved.

Question 3: Their answer - Batteriser is more cost-effective and cheaper batteries have less energy than more expensive batteries. My argument: The problem with this argument is, even if the Batteriser cost $0.00.... Would it not be using up my batteries faster due to the efficiency loss? We have already seen examples on this thread showing boost converter versus non-boost and performance is actually worse due to inefficiencies in the booster.

Question 4: Their answer - people will still use disposable batteries and it is ending up in landfills and being a huge waste. Point well taken. My argument: But Batteriser does not seem to be the answer.... It will only add to the pollution. First, the Batteriser manufacturing itself. Second, the fact that if it actually degrades time of the battery, will result in more batteries being used and possibly also leaking. Third, if they created a rechargeable battery with a boost converter in it, it would theoretically work in more devices and actually be reusable although I figure it wouldn't have as long as life in the device as an alkaline, at least you could use it in those devices that don't like rechargeables due to the lower voltage. 

Question 5: Their answer - Same thing they are saying before about tapping last bit of energy from battery, and also Garmin GPS test mentioned again which has been thoroughly debunked by multiple people. My argument: I have none. They are clearly and utterly sticking to their Garmin GPS setup and saying they will add more "side by side" comparison tests.... Yes, as soon as they find another device that they can arbitrarily decide on a "failure" mode that makes the Batteriser look like it is giving way longer performance life.

BOTTOM LINE:

This huge thread has all the answers in it, to all of the above questions, with actual mathematical and scientific arguments. Batteroo fundamentally disagrees with it, and continue to recite the same thing. You can blow huge holes into all of their answers. It is a pointless exercise to debate this anymore with Batteroo. What we need is to wait and see what they DELIVER. Fortunately it is only a few months away.
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Offline Delta

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2437 on: September 17, 2015, 02:17:24 am »
 

Offline edy

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2438 on: September 17, 2015, 02:26:21 am »
Nice one Dave.

http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/batteriser-battery-life-extender-scam-or-saviour-20150915-gjmrql.html

I always love a tech article written by a female that starts off with the sentence:

How could we forget those baloney billboards from the Advanced Medical Institute which preyed upon men's sexual insecurities with the promise of longer-lasting sex.

 :-DD

But seriously, I listened to the video and read it. Dave would certainly have been a lot more negative than Geoff Walker. I still think it is a good idea he didn't get involved directly in this article by Hannah Francis. While in the end it does actually seem (at least from what I see) that she actually is supporting Dave on this one so are all the experts she quotes (apart from Batteriser). Hannah writes of Batteroo:

With 280,000 subscribers to the EEVblog YouTube channel, Batteroo is none too pleased at the negative attention, and told Fairfax Media its legal team was "looking at" potential action against Jones.

Dave still gets lots of attention in the article. But Hannah is not very flattering by quoting Roohparvar's opinion of Dave's qualifications compared to his. Look at what she writes:

Roohparvar went on to paraphrase Gandhi – "First they will ignore you; then they will laugh at you; then they will fight you; then you will win" – and his first punch in that perceived fight was to discredit Jones for having no formal electrical engineering qualifications, only a degree in performing arts from Australia's National Institute of Dramatic Arts.

Anyways, by the end of the article I am given the feeling that it is actually anti-Batteriser and you have 3 or 4 different experts who all say it is baloney. Good job Hannah! Finally! Or is it too lenient?
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Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2439 on: September 17, 2015, 02:36:01 am »
Roohparvar went on to paraphrase Gandhi – "First they will ignore you; then they will laugh at you; then they will fight you; then you will win" – and his first punch in that perceived fight was to discredit Jones for having no formal electrical engineering qualifications, only a degree in performing arts from Australia's National Institute of Dramatic Arts.

Nobody obviously bothered to fact check that  :palm:
Heads up Dr Bob, I don't have a degree in performing arts from NIDA. It's in my linkedIn profile as a joke  :palm:
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2440 on: September 17, 2015, 02:42:03 am »
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/batteriser-battery-life-extender-scam-or-saviour-20150915-gjmrql.html

As usual Batteriser are left with nothing to stand on but slandering people and big-noting their own credentials, as if science and engineering works on appeals to authorities. How sad.
 

Offline DrGeoff

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2441 on: September 17, 2015, 02:47:32 am »
Roohparvar went on to paraphrase Gandhi – "First they will ignore you; then they will laugh at you; then they will fight you; then you will win" – and his first punch in that perceived fight was to discredit Jones for having no formal electrical engineering qualifications, only a degree in performing arts from Australia's National Institute of Dramatic Arts.

Nobody obviously bothered to fact check that  :palm:
Heads up Dr Bob, I don't have a degree in performing arts from NIDA. It's in my linkedIn profile as a joke  :palm:

Ha ha ha! That's even better!
Now you can write a musical about it :)
Was it really supposed to do that?
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2442 on: September 17, 2015, 02:50:32 am »
I bet Bob will regret being involved in that article when he reads it.
Hannah did an excellent job sourcing other experts, all of which rubbish the Batteriser claims.
And the slander, well, that's just  :palm:
I wonder what the VC's and his "legal team" think of that?
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2443 on: September 17, 2015, 02:53:59 am »
Ha ha ha! That's even better!
Now you can write a musical about it :)

Actually, it's not a complete fabrication, I did a short course at NIDA. They told me I was the 2nd worst actor they have ever seen.
Perhaps I should add some other joke qualifications on there, any suggestions?
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2444 on: September 17, 2015, 03:04:17 am »
Well done Dave :-)

My favourite bit is: "Batteroo is none too pleased at the negative attention, and told Fairfax Media its legal team was "looking at" potential action against Jones."  :-DD

Any half-decent solicitor wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, let alone trying to sue someone in another country based on a case which has no reasonable prospect of even getting off the ground. Even Judge Judy would laugh at Batteroo. Any such case has "costs awarded" written all over it.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 03:17:27 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline edy

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2445 on: September 17, 2015, 03:07:51 am »
Perhaps I should add some other joke qualifications on there, any suggestions?

How about a "Brewmasters Degree in Beerology" from a place like this:

http://www.fshn.chhs.colostate.edu/students/undergraduate/fermentation-science/

B.S. in Fermentation Science and Technology:



We all need a little beer sometimes to do proper engineering.  ;D :popcorn:
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Offline Fsck

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2446 on: September 17, 2015, 03:10:27 am »
degree in sports appreciation
"This is a one line proof...if we start sufficiently far to the left."
 

Offline edy

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2447 on: September 17, 2015, 03:11:34 am »
Speaking of Beer... Here is a sad story about an EE in Canada who has struggled to find a job since being laid off, and now works in a Beer Store:

The article is titled "Professional engineer makes minimum wage at a Beer Store":

http://www.northernlife.ca/news/localNews/2015/04/12-engineer.aspx

Sorry to derail the thread. Back to Beereriser... get 800% more Beer! Now that I would buy!  ;D
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 03:15:32 am by edy »
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Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2448 on: September 17, 2015, 03:29:04 am »
Well done Dave :-)
My favourite bit is: "Batteroo is none too pleased at the negative attention, and told Fairfax Media its legal team was "looking at" potential action against Jones."  :-DD
Any half-decent solicitor wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, let alone trying to sue someone in another country based on a case which has no reasonable prospect of even getting off the ground. Even Judge Judy would laugh at Batteroo. Any such case has "costs awarded" written all over it.

Yup, you can tell I'm quaking in my boots.
I've stuck entirely to facts and basic engineering throughout this whole thing, and have no made no personal attacks or unfounded accusations.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2449 on: September 17, 2015, 03:36:00 am »
Well done Dave :-)
My favourite bit is: "Batteroo is none too pleased at the negative attention, and told Fairfax Media its legal team was "looking at" potential action against Jones."  :-DD
Any half-decent solicitor wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, let alone trying to sue someone in another country based on a case which has no reasonable prospect of even getting off the ground. Even Judge Judy would laugh at Batteroo. Any such case has "costs awarded" written all over it.

Yup, you can tell I'm quaking in my boots.
I've stuck entirely to facts and basic engineering throughout this whole thing, and have no made no personal attacks or unfounded accusations.

Again, my hat off to you. Common sense and science prevails!
 


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