Wun Hung-Lo (made an account here just to share this gem)

[zapta]

... Imagine if people did Obama impressions with a heavy accent, maybe blacked up for good measure. Or did spastic impressions, because they all talk funny and are pretty stupid, right? This is less extreme of course, but you lot demonstrate why it still needs to be called out.

If it's good for Bush it's good for Obama. Enough with treating people based on their skin color.

[Phaedrus]

I'm proud to say I've flipped off Mr. Bush Jr. in person, back in 2008. I haven't gotten a chance to flip off Obama, but if I ever see him in person I'll make a point of it. I'm an equal opportunity offender.

[nixfu]

Americans used to say the same thing and have the same attitudes about products from Japan after WW2 when the US market was flooded with poorly made products from Japan while the US government attempted to help that country rebuild and get back on their feet.

Eventually, Japan eliminated this reputation and did it by producing good quality stuff, and now Japan is known for the highest quality in electronics and automobiles etc, not the worst.


Its not racism, its a "generalization" on the quality of the countries manufacturing.

My guess is in a few decades, china will become known for high quality manufacturing, but will no longer be the cheap producer, and their place in the world will be taken by some country in Africa, or South America or something and the country that will flood the world market with cheap products and cheap labor.

[n45048]

Its not racism, its a "generalization"

Absolutely and generally, generalisations are based on some home-truths. I guess that's why we don't see many (any?) Asian race car drivers, right?

No race is "better" than another. I don't see why some people make an issue out of nothing.

But since we're generalising, I suppose 'my people' do nothing but drink vodka, sit in saunas and shop at Ikea, or, since I'm officially Australian, drink VB, wear thongs (flip-flops) and sport mullet hair cuts.

[zapta]

Americans used to say the same thing and have the same attitudes about products from Japan after WW2 when the US market was flooded with poorly made products from Japan while the US government attempted to help that country rebuild and get back on their feet.

Eventually, Japan eliminated this reputation and did it by producing good quality stuff, and now Japan is known for the highest quality in electronics and automobiles etc, not the worst.

Its not racism, its a "generalization" on the quality of the countries manufacturing.

Similar thing happen with Korean electronic products. Once a country gets reacher it's local market expect better quality products and has the money to pay for them.

[zapta]

America has a reputation for producing shitty products too (software, cars, home appliances, hand/power tools, TV shows, video games, food, computers, network equipment, religion etc.)

First you complained about criticizing general products quality of one country and then you do it yourself, in the same thread!

You can now debate it with yourself

[dannyf]

Meanwhile a black cop kills an unarmed white kid and no media coverage or riots.

Every live matters equally, except that some more so than others.

[Howardlong]

I agree I thought it was a tiny bit cringeworthy, a bit close to the bone, almost Benny Hill, and jokes like this wouldn't ever be broadcast on UK TV for example, or generally tolerated in your average UK workplace. But there is a reality that the quality of some stuff from China is of low quality. I have had my own experiences, documented elsewhere, that nearly made me close down the manufacturing side of my business as a result. Only last week, I purchased a Chinese laser cutter, distributed locally, and when I looked inside there were bits fallen off rattling around inside, I had to dismantle it and fix it before turning it on. Yes, it's a generalisation, and certainly it just isn't true all the time.

But I'd like to draw your attention to something you said.

The thing about racism is that it's not really about individual comments, it's about more general feelings and harmful stereotypes.

So you talk about stereotypes, and then you state, directly afterwards, regarding the UK population:

People say they aren't racist, but if you talk to them they soon start complaining ...  They just assume ... They assume all Chinese people ... they also seem to think ...

Now by your own logic, shouldn't a Brit be equally offended to have been put into a pre-judged stereotype?

I realise, in my own experience, that there are fundamental culture differences, and we all have to try to work with those. However, that should definitely not stifle discussion about it, we shouldn't be afraid to discuss things like the quality of stuff coming from a certain part of the world.

As to a bit of humour, if it did offend you then that is a shame, and we should all be wary of that.

I'd like to ask what you think to an Aussie calling a Brit a Pommie bastard? I've been called that many times, although usually it's a whinging Pommie bastard, a far worse put down if ever there was one. There are jokes galore about it online, including, interestingly enough, loads on a British ex-pat website. As an indigenous Pommie bastard myself, who admittedly does whinge occasionally, I found them really pretty amusing if rather NSFW. I don't take offence, far from it in fact, I almost wear it as a badge of honour, and have no problem in laughing it off, but then Brits are generally good at self-deprecation, something that I notice doesn't always travel well across the pond (so there's a cultural difference for you right away).

It's the culture difference that we should all be aware of, and it's not always appropriate just to say "grow a pair", or to suggest to someone that they should give as good as they get much as some might like to. That's life I'm afraid, you have to make a judgement. However, I do think that there is an onus on both parties to consider whether what is said is meant in jest or has a more sinister undertone, and I really can't think how it can possibly construed that this was meant in a deliberately bad way, although at the same time I can at the same time see that it might possibly offend someone.

[tom66]

I live on a poor street (student, cheap housing) and about five houses here (on a street of ~40) are full of Eastern European people (more specifically Romanian and Lithuanian people.)

These houses are by far the messiest, dirtiest houses. Their rubbish is thrown on the street, rather than in the bin. They dump stuff on the street... old TVs mostly (that they've harvested for copper)... the household tip is only 10 minutes away! They have unattended children that play in the street. I've seen the kids playing with fireworks -- most of them aren't older than 15! There are about 10-15 kids in one house... A loose firework recently caused a bin area to burn down partially damaging two houses.

However this is more likely due to low income (the "DGAF" symptom) rather than the fact that they are from another country. Still, it has been a very testing time living around these particularly bad neighbours. I am afraid to confront them, because they do not speak good English, and I doubt they would listen.

The thing about racism is that it's not really about individual comments, it's about more general feelings and harmful stereotypes. It's really bad in the UK at the moment, for example. People say they aren't racist, but if you talk to them they soon start complaining about how eastern Europeans are coming and living 20 to a house and stealing their jobs by working for less than the minimum wage and they are all just criminals and gypsies anyway etc. It's like the rational part of their brain shuts down and they just start repeating things they have been told.

[Yago]

Must say the expression has a different meaning in UK!

[Howardlong]

So you talk about stereotypes, and then you state, directly afterwards, regarding the UK population:

I can see how this might confuse you

It didn't confuse me at all, I just found it very ironic bearing in mind the accusations of racism you've been making.

Regarding the UK itself, for many years the politically correct brigade have stifled open debate about immigration by accusing people of being racist. Until recently that muting has worked, and the reason it worked is the fear of being accused of being racist: it's a very strong term to use, I hope that you realise that.

[miguelvp]

Let's rewind to the original post

Made a joke in reply to one of Dave's tweets. Lo and behold Wun Hung-Lo (yes, pretty sure they're real) has actually made a twitter account and is stalking his account.

I made an account here on the forum just to share this, enjoy!

https://twitter.com/hungloqualitty/status/536710010232139777

Then by post #4 you said:

Wow, racist.

Not referring to Dave's reply so must be something in the OP.
What is racist about it?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Hung%20Lo

Or are you just looking for excuses to yell "racist"?

[zapta]

Are you kidding me? When the Japanese took HK they killed almost everybody and took any live soldiers on a death march. The Japanese as most Asians considered white Europeans barbarians or sub-human

It's called 'gaijin'. They are expecting less of us gaijins which helps to get by with stuff.  ;-)

[n45048]

So you want cheap Chinese products to maintain your standard of living

That's a bit of an oxymoron isn't it? You have it all wrong, we just like to laugh at what they consider a "standard".

[Macbeth]

But since we're generalising, I suppose 'my people' do nothing but drink vodka, sit in saunas and shop at Ikea, or, since I'm officially Australian, drink VB, wear thongs (flip-flops) and sport mullet hair cuts.

I was confused for a second, considering your profile flag, but you set my mind at rest when you admitted to drinking Victoria Bitter, and dressing up like a proper Bogan. Good on ya sport! Just don't be a proper drongo

Incidentally, when I was a Visual Basic contractor in the UK, another guy brought back a Victoria Bitter coaster after his visit to Oz. That was so fucking cool to a VB6 developer!

[n45048]

but you set my mind at rest when you admitted to drinking Victoria Bitter, and dressing up like a proper Bogan. Good on ya sport! Just don't be a proper drongo

I don't actually ;-) I have a 2009 Shiraz going at the moment and I don't own thongs. The vodka/sauna bit was accurate though.

[miguelvp]

Not referring to Dave's reply so must be something in the OP.

To be absolutely clear, I was referring to the letter in the video.

Sure, "Assembry" is now a racist term!

Do you care if I scan some manuals I get from Chinese products? Or should I link the violin review someone posted here a while back that make me break a rib from laughing so hard?

What the heck, might as well link the post with the video:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/crappy-translations/msg512846/#msg512846

But it's towards the end when I lost it.

[Macbeth]

I get the impression Mojo-Chan is one of those permanently offended on other peoples behalf. MC doesn't realise that the rest of the world, of all creeds, colours, religions, gender, or whatever give a flying fuck about his/her/otherkin being offended on other peoples behalf. I really don't know how MC struggles through its day, permanently being offended for the rest of the world. MC, take a chill pill (a nice English cup of tea would do ---- oooooohhh.... Colonialism, Sri-Lanka, slavery... sorry.... you got me now!). Please don't be offended on my behalf because I fucked up the SJW nebulous ever changing laws yet again.

BTW, as an aside, where can one get that super cool Hawaiian bowling shirt that Matt Taylor sported when he landed a fucking probe on a comet after a 10 year mission? A genuine hand made one is a bit pricey for me, but surely there must be some knock-offs by now?

[marmad]

Come on, the current Pope was in the Hitler Youth, that doesn't mean he's an anti-Semite or supported Nazism.

You're about 2 years behind on your Pope-news.

[Yago]

Regarding the UK itself, for many years the politically correct brigade have stifled open debate about immigration by accusing people of being racist. Until recently that muting has worked, and the reason it worked is the fear of being accused of being racist: it's a very strong term to use, I hope that you realise that.

It isn't that political correctness has gone away, it's that UKIP has made xenophobia and racism more acceptable. Remember that four years ago their policy was to close the borders and boot almost everyone foreign out. They have moderated their message a little now to become more acceptable and mainstream, but every now and then the façade slips. Even their leader complains about people speaking other languages near him (because he wanted to eavesdrop, presumably...) It reminds me of this:



To be fair, you do have a point about the language. A lot of it isn't racism, it's xenophobia. The line between the two is blurred though.

I really tried to avoid making a serious comment about racism on an electronics forum, but that seems a bit off the mark to me.

It is not a new phenomenon brought with UKIP, although they are execrable scum.
In UK, politicians and bankers raping the country have set common man against his "brother", just like Hitler did to gain political power and stir the masses. (bang goes Goodwin's!).
The tories have been hammering this technique for their entire term, and it is a common technique in many countries over the globe.
Whether it be race "Polish not qualify for benefits, Cameron" or "Hang the scoungers and pensioners out to dry, Cameron"
On top of that, IMHO, the education standard of UK has gone right down the shitcan, this is never good especially in term of social progress.

Don't over simplify, and do not scream the sky is falling in, and don't scream the racist card when it's jingoism being thrown about.

[Yago]

I give up. When you are accused of being permanently offended it's clear people just don't want to hear any criticism or take everything you say as a personal attack. This has just descended into ad-hominem attacks and complaints from people who don't seem to understand the meaning of many of the words being used.

It's like racist jokes about black people in the early 70s... You just couldn't make people see why there were so bad, but almost anyone looking at them nowadays will instinctively know there is a problem. I'll just have to wait 20 years.

You do not know what race I am, yet you are willing to voice MY perspective!??

That is a problem, learn to live and let live.
Those who seek trouble often find what they are looking for.
To recap, I have nothing against you Mojo, I like reading your expressive posts, but I think you are being a bit too sensitive here IMHO.

Agree to disagree, and keep racism out of EEVB, should be all our aim.

[n45048]

It's like racist jokes about black people in the early 70s...

Some of them are still pretty funny though! Do you know any jokes mojo-chan?

On a serious note, we are too invested in this whole racism issue. Let everyone hang shit on everyone openly and be done with it! That's equality for you! People are too PC and overly sensitive these days.

[Phaedrus]

As someone in a category that actually is discriminated against pretty strongly, I don't have much respect for those who play the victimhood card too often. You can't get all pissed off and on your high horse over every off-hand comment someone makes, particularly if it's over something that has a significant rooting in fact (like low quality Chinese electronics).

A sign of true maturity is knowing what battles are worth fighting, and which aren't. And complaining about racism against the Chinese, when said "racism" consists of mild remarks making fun of poor translation quality from fly-by-night electronics firms, simply isn't a good use of anyone's time.

[Howardlong]

Actually I think you've summed it up rather nicely there, confirmed a number of things, although the jokes were crap. Not bad for a whinging Pommie bastard.

[zapta]

Ultimately, you just keep calling it when you see it, and after some decades the problem sorts itself out. Sucks to be in the wrong group until then, but change like this takes time.

+1

This is exactly what we are doing with this intervention, calling out your PC, double standard.