EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[rich]

So they basically waited 40days to say they didn't agree with the trademark opposition.

22. Applicant further affirmatively alleges that as a result of its continuous and substantial usage of the BATTERISER mark, this mark is a valuable asset to the Applicant.

It's admirable they still view the mark as a valuble asset 

There is a schedule published in the earlier documents. I wonder what the announcement will be on 24th Feb.

Time to Answer 1/24/2016
Deadline for Discovery Conference 2/23/2016
Discovery Opens 2/23/2016
Initial Disclosures Due 3/24/2016
Expert Disclosures Due 7/22/2016
Discovery Closes 8/21/2016
Plaintiff's Pretrial Disclosures 10/5/2016
Plaintiff's 30-day Trial Period Ends 11/19/2016
Defendant's Pretrial Disclosures 12/4/2016
Defendant's 30-day Trial Period Ends 1/18/2017
Plaintiff's Rebuttal Disclosures 2/2/2017
Plaintiff's 15-day Rebuttal Period Ends  3/4/2017

Link to index page makes it easier to see all docs filed: http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/2oy0gcdxs/uspto-trademark-trial-and-appeal-board/energizer-brands-llc-v-batteroo-inc/

[quad]

Quick update on the IGG front. They've deleted a bunch of comments, promised an update next week, vaguely referenced China, and still say they plan to ship ASAP.

[janekm]

So, those statements sound like they have no boots on the ground, assuming we take them at face value... That would be an insanity in itself given a product of the mechanical integration complexity of this... I don't want to say that would itself explain continued delays or it would end up in Rob's next update 

[Towger]

So what does this mean? They are fighting it? Or is it just a necessary step before they try and make a deal?

Your the one with a brother in law who moved to the Dark Side, what's his expert opinion. :-) 

[AmmoJammo]

Interesting statement...

Implying that somehow it could be the company in China's fault if/when people don't receive their orders...

...I'm thinking they haven't actually had anything made.... possibly haven't even found a manufacturer, and have no intention of doing so...

[Muttley Snickers]

The road was blocked after a landslide in China last I heard, perhaps one lone person with a pair of tweezers is clearing the debris grain by grain this may explain the delay, anyway after it is all cleared they also have this one up their sleeve.

Maybe they were testing the sleeves with fake Duracell batteries, they never stood a chance, poor buggers......

https://thecounterfeitreport.com/product/106/

[SL4P]

So, how's the new chip development progressing?

[Muttley Snickers]

So, how's the new chip development progressing?

If that's directed at me I'm off the chips altogether and have migrated to peanuts, better suited to this particular thread and in particular the related product I feel.

[mikerj]

If that's directed at me I'm off the chips altogether and have migrated to peanuts, better suited to this particular thread and in particular the related product I feel.

They are only Monkey nuts when they come with the shell

[Fungus]

Interesting statement...

Implying that somehow it could be the company in China's fault if/when people don't receive their orders...

I've been on kickstarters that were nearly a year late but the whole time there was a stream of photos of progress: Here's John standing on the production line holding the first PCB to come out. Here's the first box of connecting cables. Here's John going back to China with the PCB because one of the chips is backwards. Here's John showing the bad PCB to the workers. Here's John with PCB rev. 2.0. This is the machine that puts the logo on the boxes. etc. etc.

Yes, it was a year late, but nobody minded very much. They kept us entertained with updates.

...I'm thinking they haven't actually had anything made.... possibly haven't even found a manufacturer, and have no intention of doing so...

Batteriser OTOH haven't ever shown a single photo of anything that might suggest they're actually manufacturing something.

[Kalvin]

JPG or it doesn't exist.

[Brumby]

Batteriser OTOH haven't ever shown a single photo of anything that might suggest they're actually manufacturing something.

I'm inclined to disagree....

We've seen photos of Bob, Frankie and co - and they do seem to be pumping out stuff....

Stuff that causes the roses out front here to go through a growth spurt every time I open this thread.   

[EEVblog]

Batteriser OTOH haven't ever shown a single photo of anything that might suggest they're actually manufacturing something.

Which is the interesting part, because Bateroo ran a practically perfect 101 textbook crowd funding campaign. They did everything right. Then it all stops the instant the campaign finished.
The crowd funding 101 textbook says to keep backers updated regularly, even with trivial photos of stuff, it keeps them entertained, distracted, and will keep the pitchforks at bay. Yet they seem to be more than happy to have people surrounding them with pitchforks. Crazy.
Although they did actually show a photo of the storage cases from (pre?)production apparently.

[Godzil]

Completely agree with Dave, and I have the same experience as Fungus, The Tiko 3D printer is a good example of it, they are late, but since the beginning they were updated at least on a monthly basis, explaining as much as they can, etc.. and even tell the backer long before the original deadline that some part was not working as, but the worked as hard as possible to get it in time, then that it may shift a bit, etc..
With all that sort of picture like John is ranting against the Chinese worker, John is happy to show you the mould use for that part of the printer, John is ...

Same with the CHIP kickstarter, they weren't late, but kept the backer entertained by showing informations about what they are doing.
Same with the PebbleBee kickstarter, they are completely out of delay for one of the product, but they kept us informed when they can, they even completely redraw/re-spec it and finally send this product earlier this week.
That what make a good KS campaign, Bateroo is clearly doing something really wrong, but I don't completely agree with you Dave, what they are doing right know, they were already doing that from the beginning, they just stopped playing as they seems to be no longer interested in their product.
Comment deletion and false claim was there from the beginning

[Kalvin]

Now they also have a good opportunity to lose the any existing money they possibly have into attorney's bills. And the attorney just happens to be a nephew (or close family relative). I am pretty confident that their attorney will charge Batteroo quite heavily and the Batteroo will suddenly run out of money due to the legal expenses paid to the attorney.

Ps.  According to the lawyer database it seems that the attorney in question hasn't really been practicing law after the law-school, so this may be his first case with good payoff. Technically he won't even lose the case as the client just happened to run out of money and the case was dismissed.

[SL4P]

Technically he won't even lose the case as the client just happened to run out of money and the case was dismissed.

Could very likely be adjudicated to pay Energiser's costs - maybe $500K or more... ! 
Energiser have a building full of in-house and tethered lawyers, and can allocate whatever resources they want to this case just for fun - no matter how small the dispute is... so 10 barristers at $10K/day over 30 days == $3 million incurred costs.
The court says these are internal costs - and awards Energiser $1M actual costs against Batteriser.  Parvees will have to wait for his next gig.

[Nerull]

Now they also have a good opportunity to lose the any existing money they possibly have into attorney's bills. And the attorney just happens to be a nephew (or close family relative). I am pretty confident that their attorney will charge Batteroo quite heavily and the Batteroo will suddenly run out of money due to the legal expenses paid to the attorney.

Ps.  According to the lawyer database it seems that the attorney in question hasn't really been practicing law after the law-school, so this may be his first case with good payoff. Technically he won't even lose the case as the client just happened to run out of money and the case was dismissed.

It wouldn't be dismissed if they ran out of money - that would be a win for Batteroo - more likely a default judgement which means that the court finds in favor of the plaintiff because the defendant did not provide a defense. That would be very bad for Batteroo.

[Kalvin]

Technically he won't even lose the case as the client just happened to run out of money and the case was dismissed.

Could very likely be adjudicated to pay Energiser's costs - maybe $500K or more... ! 

It doesn't matter if they are made to pay $1 or 10 million dollars if they have paid during the process to their attorney and run out of money. The Batteroo as a company will just go bankrupt, Energizer will not get a dime and case closed. However, the attorney will now have their money, and the money will be recycled back to the ex-Batteroo owners. It is like magic!

[rich]

This whole process is an opposition to a trade mark application made by Batteroo which has not yet been granted. The process and resolution is handled by the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board of the US Patent and Trademark Office. Nobody is suing anybody. Costs don't get awarded even if the trademark is refused registration. I would argue the particular attorney was chosen because they are cheap and part of Bateroo's friend/relative network and not as an actor in a larger money moving conspiracy.

Assuming we accept on faith that they have done some engineering followed by a production run, and maybe incurred unforeseen expense with the scrapped 500mA version then there really isn't a lot of money left to disappear into the night with.

[Fungus]

Assuming we accept on faith that they have done some engineering followed by a production run, and maybe incurred unforeseen expense with the scrapped 500mA version then there really isn't a lot of money left to disappear into the night with.

How likely is it that they scrapped a batch of 500mA versions because they wanted "to give our backers the absolute best final product that we believe they deserve"? 

Me? I think they've just been spending the money since day one with no intention of manufacturing anything unless they got a huge contract (eg. Walmart).

And I think Walmart are too smart to buy a product like that without thoroughly testing it, so... not gonna happen, Bob.

[rich]

There is no hard evidence to prove they have built more than a few prototypes of any design, or whether the 500mA switcheroo incurred any costs beyond the PR hype department.

Me? I'd like to think: two brothers thought it'd be easy to build such a simple product they genuinely believed in and make a fortune from it. They screwed up the technical claims and got called out and been in a hole ever since but tried to get out by digging whilst misdirecting backers attention. If it's anything like zano story, there'll be 160000 regulators in a box being auctioned off when they run out of cash.

[samgab]

...And if their attorney Mr Parvin is in any way competent he would advise his client not to start shipping product with the name Batteriser on it, because that will just magnify the damages.
Batteroo are screwed....

Yeah well... To create his answer submission document it appears that he used a "Pleading Wizard" and there were a number of glaring spelling and grammar errors in his original letter, so I'm not sure how competent he is, to be fair. 

[Fungus]

Me? I'd like to think: two brothers thought it'd be easy to build such a simple product they genuinely believed in and make a fortune from it. They screwed up the technical claims and got called out.

Really? The Batteriser Brothers believed that "8x more battery life" was a reasonable claim? 

I've got some real estate you might be interested in.

[rich]

I didn't say I believed the claim. You should direct your real estate offer to Batteroo Bros.

[Fungus]

Yeah well... To create his answer submission document it appears that he used a "Pleading Wizard" and there were a number of glaring spelling and grammar errors in his original letter, so I'm not sure how competent he is, to be fair. 

I noticed that as well.

I think it's safe to say the Batteriser Bros haven't spent much on their legal defense. They're probably only doing it to show their investors they did something.