It should have Autoranging feature and it'd be nice to have the feature of selecting between Manual and Autoranging
Input impedance of at least 10M?
Separate terminals like (A-mA ?A-COM-V?) not (V?mA)
Capacitor test function would be nice (pF and nF)
Hold or Autohold function ± MIN MAX function
other basic essentials
the Hioki has very low specs, nothing special for the price, and I think 3 updates a second, again, nothing special. I'd take the uni-t 139-c over those choices you listed...
It should have Autoranging feature and it'd be nice to have the feature of selecting between Manual and Autoranging
Autoranging used to be a premium feature but I think today it is just a way to make a less expensive meter. And with autoranging, manual ranging is more complicated and takes more time. The difference is insignificant.QuoteInput impedance of at least 10M?
I would avoid any meter which is not 10M on every AC and DC voltage range unless it is only going to be used in low impedance and low precision applications like power supplies. Some cheap meters are 9M or 11M on just some (!) DC ranges and 1M on AC ranges which leads to inconsistent voltage measurements.QuoteSeparate terminals like (A-mA ?A-COM-V?) not (V?mA)
Hopefully nobody is making a meter with voltage and amps on the same terminal. I have a couple of old bench meters like this and one has to be careful not to short out a voltage source when changing modes.
I really like the old Beckman RMS225 design where all three terminals, milliamps, amps, and volts-ohms, had the same spacing to the common terminal so standard 3/4 inch banana jacks could be used but these days only B&K and Amprobe/Wavetek/Meterman (they inherited Beckman's design) make meters like this.QuoteCapacitor test function would be nice (pF and nF)
This is almost always useless; I never know when to trust it and it only works correctly for trivial cases. Get a dedicated LCR meter like a DE-5000 or impedance bridge (if you can stand using it) if testing capacitors is important.QuoteHold or Autohold function ± MIN MAX function
Some meters have a really slow minimum/maximum function. Do not count on this to capture power line voltage spikes.Quoteother basic essentials
One of my old Beckman meters had a bipolar transistor hfe test function which I miss. This is not as useful as it used to be unless you are still using leaded parts.
Temperature measurement using standard type K thermocouples is nice to have. This is better if a dedicated thermocouple socket is used instead of an adapter but either are acceptable until the adapter is lost.
One of my high end meters supports separate average, RMS, *and* RMS AC+DC measurements which is very handy for doing calibration.
Wide bandwidth AC and RMS AC measurements are needed sometimes; better meters top out at 100kHz but I would not mind finding one which went higher.
You might not be able to get everything you want in a single meter and it may not even be preferable. Consider an inexpensive meter which has more special functions and a more expensive meter that is higher performance. Maybe buy the inexpensive meter first to get some experience so you know better what you want.
The problem is that I don't have a wide range of choices and many of them are not that satisfying.
Autoranging used to be a premium feature but I think today it is just a way to make a less expensive meter. And with autoranging, manual ranging is more complicated and takes more time. The difference is insignificant.
Autoranging used to be a premium feature but I think today it is just a way to make a less expensive meter. And with autoranging, manual ranging is more complicated and takes more time. The difference is insignificant.
To be honest I can't stand that slow autoranging in 4000 count cheap multimeters, if I want to measure resistance I tend do just grab some oldie ICL7106 meter and dial in the range, goes much faster than either autorange starting from the beginning 5 times whilst fiddling with probes and me looking at decimal dot flying around, or me pressing "Range" button 10 times because I've overshoot to wrong range;)
You did not give any info on your electronics projects, but for repairing household stuff almost any somewhat safe DMM should be good enough. I wouldn't spend all my money on one tool. You might need other stuff, like a soldering station etc.
So I'd guess a cheaper DMM like the uni-t 139c should do the job for now.
I can only suggest that if it was my first meter I would go for the blue EEVblog multimeter because it should do most of what you need, the price is fair,
and any technical support you may need is more or less located ummm... HERE!
I would also suggest (when your pocket allows) getting a decent working analogue multimeter too, it does not have to be expensive or cheap cheap either.
and an affordable digital clamp meter, preferably with low current AC RMS and DC clamp ability.
Autorange is a MUST HAVE for electronics noobs, and clueless probe prodding home workshop DIY cheapskates.
UT61E as main electronics meter, and a Fluke 101 as electrical meter. If you don't measure mains or your local mains is very clean (free of large transients), then you can use a single UT61E.
Still, I recommend 2 meters, just in case you need a second meter.
An 'in circuit' ESR meter is a nice 'must have', but not if you're not familiar with just how easy it can be obliterated by a charged or sneaky recovering capacitor, or when surrounded by adjacent components. All ESR meters are not equal btw, some work well, some so so...
Autoranging used to be a premium feature but I think today it is just a way to make a less expensive meter. And with autoranging, manual ranging is more complicated and takes more time. The difference is insignificant.
To be honest I can't stand that slow autoranging in 4000 count cheap multimeters, if I want to measure resistance I tend do just grab some oldie ICL7106 meter and dial in the range, goes much faster than either autorange starting from the beginning 5 times whilst fiddling with probes and me looking at decimal dot flying around, or me pressing "Range" button 10 times because I've overshoot to wrong range;)
So you mean it's a pain in the ass for professionals?
I agree; some autoranging meters are cripplingly slow.
An 'in circuit' ESR meter is a nice 'must have', but not if you're not familiar with just how easy it can be obliterated by a charged or sneaky recovering capacitor, or when surrounded by adjacent components. All ESR meters are not equal btw, some work well, some so so...
I am not a big fan of ESR meters. For a given type of capacitor, ESR is roughly inversely proportional to capacitance so a little table or graph showing what the ESR should be is needed. These meters work for detecting capacitors which are completely shot but I do not need an ESR meter to do that.
What I would find useful is a meter which measures dissipation of a capacitor in-circuit. Dissipation varies over a much smaller range and does not depend on capacitance. Datasheets list end of life dissipation although this is more of a guideline than a rule.Autoranging used to be a premium feature but I think today it is just a way to make a less expensive meter. And with autoranging, manual ranging is more complicated and takes more time. The difference is insignificant.
To be honest I can't stand that slow autoranging in 4000 count cheap multimeters, if I want to measure resistance I tend do just grab some oldie ICL7106 meter and dial in the range, goes much faster than either autorange starting from the beginning 5 times whilst fiddling with probes and me looking at decimal dot flying around, or me pressing "Range" button 10 times because I've overshoot to wrong range;)
I agree; some autoranging meters are cripplingly slow. And I do not like cycling through the range button either; usually I pass the range I want at least once so I have to select the range twice. I do not know if it is still the case but in the past, one of the distinguishing features of digital multimeters with autoranging was higher power consumption so lower battery life.
The last manual ranging meter I had was a Beckman Tech 310 and since that time, I got so used to autoranging meters that it was a pleasant surprise to use a manual ranging meter again when I picked up a pair of old Tektronix DM501 and DM502 bench multimeters.
Thanks, everyone. I had looked that spreadsheet, but it lacks some models that I can buy locally.
I'd like to know your comments on HIOKI DT-4211 as it's the only non-Chinese brand that I can buy although there are Fluke 101 and 106 and 15B which are made in China and some people claim that the 15B model is not very accurate and it has low autoranging and updating speed. Fluke 101 and 106 have much fewer functions on them compared to HIOKI DT-4211.
Thanks, everyone. I had looked that spreadsheet, but it lacks some models that I can buy locally.
I'd like to know your comments on HIOKI DT-4211 as it's the only non-Chinese brand that I can buy although there are Fluke 101 and 106 and 15B which are made in China and some people claim that the 15B model is not very accurate and it has low autoranging and updating speed. Fluke 101 and 106 have much fewer functions on them compared to HIOKI DT-4211.I don't have the Hioki, but it looks almost identical to the DER EE DR-241 (apart from a few button changes, which could well be set in software). Given it has a set of features that are useful for electronics (µA, frequency, duty cycle, capacitance, relative measures) and a few limitations that are not terribly important for this role (True RMS, 4000 counts), I say you wouldn't be wrong buying it.
Having lived in a country where the offers were extremely limited (especially due to the absurd prices), I always drooled over the offers and prices available in foreign markets. However, my thought process was: if I had the money (or had the means to save) I would try to pursue the higher quality that is locally available. That also reminds me of another advantage of the Hioki: it uses regular AA batteries (9V batteries were very expensive).
I think I still have one of those Beckman meters somewhere, must be around 30 years old...
I hate penlight batteries, in my experience they leak way too often, and I've never had a 9V leak...
I think I still have one of those Beckman meters somewhere, must be around 30 years old...
Mine died from being left in a hot car on the dashboard which caused the LCD to turn black. It was still sort of visible so I gave it to someone in need of a multimeter and replaced it with one of the Beckman Circuitmate meters although I do not remember which one.I hate penlight batteries, in my experience they leak way too often, and I've never had a 9V leak...
I prefer AA and AAA cells to 9 volt batteries but the leakage problem is real. 9 volt alkaline batteries are made up internally of 6 almost AAA size cells so in effect they are double packaged which helps contain any leakage.
Thanks, everyone. I had looked that spreadsheet, but it lacks some models that I can buy locally.
I'd like to know your comments on HIOKI DT-4211 as it's the only non-Chinese brand that I can buy although there are Fluke 101 and 106 and 15B which are made in China and some people claim that the 15B model is not very accurate and it has low autoranging and updating speed. Fluke 101 and 106 have much fewer functions on them compared to HIOKI DT-4211.I don't have the Hioki, but it looks almost identical to the DER EE DR-241 (apart from a few button changes, which could well be set in software). Given it has a set of features that are useful for electronics (µA, frequency, duty cycle, capacitance, relative measures) and a few limitations that are not terribly important for this role (True RMS, 4000 counts), I say you wouldn't be wrong buying it.
Having lived in a country where the offers were extremely limited (especially due to the absurd prices), I always drooled over the offers and prices available in foreign markets. However, my thought process was: if I had the money (or had the means to save) I would try to pursue the higher quality that is locally available. That also reminds me of another advantage of the Hioki: it uses regular AA batteries (9V batteries were very expensive).
I hate penlight batteries, in my experience they leak way too often, and I've never had a 9V leak...
I don't have the Hioki, but it looks almost identical to the DER EE DR-241 (apart from a few button changes, which could well be set in software). Given it has a set of features that are useful for electronics (µA, frequency, duty cycle, capacitance, relative measures) and a few limitations that are not terribly important for this role (True RMS, 4000 counts), I say you wouldn't be wrong buying it.
Having lived in a country where the offers were extremely limited (especially due to the absurd prices), I always drooled over the offers and prices available in foreign markets. However, my thought process was: if I had the money (or had the means to save) I would try to pursue the higher quality that is locally available. That also reminds me of another advantage of the Hioki: it uses regular AA batteries (9V batteries were very expensive).
I don't have the Hioki, but it looks almost identical to the DER EE DR-241 (apart from a few button changes, which could well be set in software). Given it has a set of features that are useful for electronics (µA, frequency, duty cycle, capacitance, relative measures) and a few limitations that are not terribly important for this role (True RMS, 4000 counts), I say you wouldn't be wrong buying it.
Having lived in a country where the offers were extremely limited (especially due to the absurd prices), I always drooled over the offers and prices available in foreign markets. However, my thought process was: if I had the money (or had the means to save) I would try to pursue the higher quality that is locally available. That also reminds me of another advantage of the Hioki: it uses regular AA batteries (9V batteries were very expensive).Yes, I've seen in another topic where they related it to that DER EE. I don't know why? Why do people relate them? I know they are identical, but what does this mean? Does it mean it's a cheap copy or poorly made device?
The EEVblog multimeter itself would cost exactly the same as the HIOKI, but I'm not aware of shipping costs, etc.
Left it in a hot car... that's like cruelty to meters... poor thing... lol
I've got a Wavekek (Beckman) rms225 circa mid 90's... don't recall the accuracy spec's, but it was a rugged meter, as were most of those Beckman multimeters...
QuoteI've got a Wavekek (Beckman) rms225 circa mid 90's... don't recall the accuracy spec's, but it was a rugged meter, as were most of those Beckman multimeters...
Based on the date codes, my RMS225 was produced in late 1990. The feature I like the most about it that I miss in other multimeters is the banana socket arrangement where all of the inputs, volts-ohms, amps, and milliamps, support using a 3/4 inch banana plug to common. This makes it easy to wire it into a circuit for continuous monitoring.
Funny you mentioned that. My UT136C has the same arrangement of inputs.
Fluke 101 as electrical meter
Isn't there trade restrictions still with Iran?
As the government subsidizes shipping in China a they are able to do free shipping on small parcels if they wish to a lot of western countries (US, Australia, Europe etc). It's a reciprocal agreement and our countries postal service bear a large slice of the cost.
Not sure about Iran though. But if it was easy to buy from China you would surely know about it by now you're practically neighbors.
For some countries maybe. I'm sure you can get a UNI-T shipped off aliexpress?
(Yes, you will not likely find a UNI-T locally, and if you do not for a good price. Even here in North America we get them from where they are made.)
what about www.tme.eu ?
Most of my Arduino stuff measurements here are done with a 2,74 bucks 830 dmm from aliexpress. It's a better one with the continuity buzzer and does the job most of the time. Not for work on mains, though.
I like the autorange of my ut 61e, when I check an unknown resistor as an example.
So you mean it's a pain in the ass for professionals?Don't be discouraged, autoranging is awesome feature, just some realizations of it (especially in low-end meters) leave much to be desired;)
Autorange becomes the ultimate PITA when I need to get into MIN-MAX or PEAK MIN-MAX modes,
which of course only works if you're in the correct range to begin with to catch those sudden changes, otherwise the display reads "OL"
or "LOL" if it's a really 'smart' meter
[...] However, as P90 mentioned and shown in several other threads around eevblog regarding other products, DER EE seems to be a very reputable company that manufactures good quality products.
banggood ships to iran.
how you get the money to them is another issue!
https://www.banggood.com/UNI-T-UT61E-Auto-Range-Modern-Digital-Multimeters-AC-DC-Meter-p-90124.html
If you can't get a decent feature packed performance meter like the EEVblog meter, I was about to suggest the Fluke 15B meter would be an excellent first meter,
but... according to the Fluke website http://www.fluke.com/Fluke/inen/Digital-Multimeters/Fluke-15B.htm?PID=56017
it seems you may have to be Indian to be able to use it! Perhaps it has an Ethnicity Sensor sensor built in, and may not switch on ...?!
" 15B DMMs
With the launch of 15B Digital Multimeters in India, Fluke offers features most often needed for troubleshooting most of day to day electrical and electronics problems.
The 15B DMM is specially designed for Indian technicians keeping in mind their requirements for quick and easy troubleshooting.
15B offers features like AC/DC voltage measurement along with functions like diode test, capacitance measurement and continuity detection. In addition to above.
Simple to use and large LCD display along with many other user friendly benefits makes the 15B DMM a true companion, no doubt they have become first choice of today’s maintenance and field engineers. 15B DMM is highly affordable and is easily available through a wide network of retail stockiest across India.
"
Sorry I wasn't much help
The Sanwa and the Hioki 4211 are very similar. The Sanwa has a battery tester (which I find useful) and the Hioki has a frequency measurement(which I fund much more useful, especially for electronics). IMHO the Hioki has the best balance between features and quality in your selection.
The Sanwa and the Hioki 4211 are very similar. The Sanwa has a battery tester (which I find useful) and the Hioki has a frequency measurement(which I fund much more useful, especially for electronics). IMHO the Hioki has the best balance between features and quality in your selection.What's a battery tester? Does it measure its capacity?
Can't you test a battery by measuring its voltage?
The Sanwa and the Hioki 4211 are very similar. The Sanwa has a battery tester (which I find useful) and the Hioki has a frequency measurement(which I fund much more useful, especially for electronics). IMHO the Hioki has the best balance between features and quality in your selection.What's a battery tester? Does it measure its capacity?
Can't you test a battery by measuring its voltage?
Open circuit voltage is nice to know but it doesn't say anything about the internal resistance or very much about the state of charge. A better test would be to place a rated load across the battery while measuring the voltage. As that load would vary by battery type, a DMM might just put some nominal load on the battery. Battery datasheets have information on rated discharge (and charge) currents.
The battery tester on the Samwa puts a 30ohm resistor in parallel with the DMM input[/b], therefore simulating a scenario where the battery is in an active circuit. This helps evaluate if the internal resistance is high (the voltage reading is much lower) and if the battery has not much charge left (the voltage read decreases at a fast rate). Despite not being extremely accurate, as these factors depend of the size of the battery, this serves as a quick check.
Thanks for the clarification gents,
I use the Low Z mode to occasionally test batteries (and test trip RCD/GFIs)
It's not as good as my battery tester, but if I see a significant difference between Low Z and standard Volts DC readings, the battery gets swapped out.