So in this german article
https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/frankreich-verkabeltes-handy-faellt-in-badewanne-13-jaehrige-tot-a-56c24b50-f75d-4a1c-9336-6ca8bc46fe4cit basicly says a girl dropped her mobile phone in the bath while charging and she got electrocuted and died days later in a hospital.
I"m an ex ee student and now computer science student.
So I was wondering if thats the hole story.
My first feeling was maybe the charger was in an extension cord and that assembly got dropped in the bath, in which case I understand the outcome - no futher questions
However I dont think you could seriously electrocute yourself with 5v 1a charger, but I didnt consider modern fast chargers.
To my knowledge there are some mobile phone chargers with 65W or more.
I just would like to know what would happen if you drop the output of usb c fast chargers in for example a bath?
I would assume not a hole lot would happen aside from some water vaper, maybe im completly wrong but, because modern fast chargers proberly have pretty good protections. I would assume 230v mains would be much much worse
If it was a counterfeit Chinese charger, there is nothing surprising about it. Usually they have barely any isolation from the mains voltage. And as there is basically no QC, they sometimes have a short between the mains and secondary side. Like solder bridge due to pad proximity or transformer defect.
I thought about cheap chinese chargers, sadly the article doesnt mention any details. In case of those death chargers I also completly understand. But if we assume its a original charger or a properly engineered charger
My first feeling was maybe the charger was in an extension cord and that assembly got dropped in the bath, in which case I understand the outcome - no futher questions
Actually, simply dropping a mains extension cord in the bath is unlikely to electrocute you in and of itself, since there wouldn't immediately be much of a current path through your heart. The danger happens if, through panic or lack of awareness, you pick up the end of the cord with your hand. At that point there could be a current path down your arm and through your chest.
What you should do if such an accident happens is bunch yourself up in a ball as far away from the extension cord as possible and call for help. Someone else can unplug the cord to remove the danger.
Unfortunately, most people would not have enough knowledge to react this way.
If you must use and charge your toys whilst in the bath at least have the sense to use the shaver socket
So if I get you all right 230V ac is the actual risk and most likely exponation, not the 5v-20v dc
What you should do if such an accident happens is bunch yourself up in a ball as far away from the extension cord as possible and call for help. Someone else can unplug the cord to remove the danger.
Unfortunately, most people would not have enough knowledge to react this way.
Seems like the safest thing to do is simply stand up and step out of the tub. As long as you do not get too close to the end of the cord I don't think there is much risk, the most direct path for the current is going to be to the neutral and earth pins in the end of the cord. Seems like Mythbusters did an experiment that involved dropping a hair dryer into a bath and found similar results.
The mobile phone electrocution is plausible though, a person holding a phone in their hand could end up having a very low impedance connection to metal on the phone which will not have a safety ground and part of their body could be in close proximity to or even touching grounded plumbing fixtures.
The mobile phone electrocution is plausible though, a person holding a phone in their hand could end up having a very low impedance connection to metal on the phone which will not have a safety ground and part of their body could be in close proximity to or even touching grounded plumbing fixtures.
I agree.
Most chargers will leak a little current. Some may leak quite a lot and you might feel a slight buzz if you touch the phone while connected. I have certainly encountered people who can feel what appears to be a vibration when they touch the metal cover of their Mac - so even good quality parts may show this. Poorer parts can be worse but still not cause obvious injury.
But if your feet are very well grounded through the water and you pick up the phone with your hand, that current may be larger and will be passing through your heart.
I'm actually kind of surprised that chargers are still not required to be earth grounded. I see no obvious issue with tying the negative output or at least the shell of the USB connector to earth ground. A desktop PC will have both tied to earth.
In the US, outlets in the bathroom are required to have a GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) device for this very reason. They have been a code requirement for 50 years. Of course, we have houses much older than 50 years and hopefully the homeowners have upgraded over the years but maybe not.
So if I get you all right 230V ac is the actual risk and most likely exponation, not the 5v-20v dc
Not just "likely", but "necessarily" so. 5-20V can only kill you if you apply it through broken skin on both sides of the circuit.
In the US, outlets in the bathroom are required to have a GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) device for this very reason. They have been a code requirement for 50 years. Of course, we have houses much older than 50 years and hopefully the homeowners have upgraded over the years but maybe not.
here everything even old installations must have RCDs, I suspect much of the rest of EU have similar rules
Seems like the safest thing to do is simply stand up and step out of the tub.
This is true. However, there is a danger that if you jump up in a panic, then you could slip and fall.
In the US, outlets in the bathroom are required to have a GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) device
in the uk no sockets within 3 meters of a bath or shower, rcd or not,the only exception is shaver sockets that have an isolation transformer and cant be closer than 600mm
and died days later in a hospital.
This is the most suspicious part - electrocution is normally quick.
I think the real lesson everyone needs to learn from stories like this is to not use mains-powered devices while you're in the bathtub. I remember seeing one a few years back where the person decided to use an extension cord...
The transformers in the cheap unbranded chargers are often wound with zero attention to safety, typical to find cold side wires crossing hot side wires, so the only thing between the user and mains is two layers of cheap enamel.
in the uk no sockets within 3 meters of a bath or shower, rcd or not,the only exception is shaver sockets that have an isolation transformer and cant be closer than 600mm
All that does is encourage someone to use an extension cord from whatever the nearest socket is. That was what happened in at least a couple of these cases I read about, someone trailed a wire in from another room to have their phone plugged in.
I'm surprised things haven't been updated to allow a socket in the bathroom, the GFCI (RCD) outlets are much more sensitive than the whole house breakers and you can't run a hair dryer, curling iron, or other higher power appliance from one of those shaver sockets and the transformer would be lossy for plugging in something like an electric toothbrush charger.
Perhabs the usb cable was too short and the person used a mains extension cord, placing it close to the water?
In any case, everyone in the planet knows that electricity+water is a nasty combination. Don't even try.
Except this person, it seems. So that was Darwin doing its job, nothing to worry about.
I smell a lot of bs here, but this could be a combination of old/crappy electric installation + chinesium charger.
Humid zones (Talking about house places, control your dirty minds) have their own leakage detector (Again, talking about house places!), which use a more sensible rating.
In UE, while the "main" breaker uses 30mA rating, bathrooms use it's own with 5mA rating. So it's extremely hard to die electrocuted.
This didn't exist 30 years ago, so old installations might not be so lucky. I've even seen single-pole breakers opening the neutral instead the live! Yes, freaking dangerous!
So there're a lot of possible factors here. But in the 99.9% of the cases, this is impossible.
I guess the charger was not properly isolated, so on of the USB leads was still at (or close enough to) the main's live potential.
As water is a first class conductor, dropping a charger's chord into the water while connected to 220V is enough to cause electrocution. The charger in question here was connected to the phone. And the phone fell in water. So, death doesn't sound surprising to me here.
I'm surprised things haven't been updated to allow a socket in the bathroom, the GFCI (RCD) outlets are much more sensitive than the whole house breakers and you can't run a hair dryer, curling iron, or other higher power appliance from one of those shaver sockets and the transformer would be lossy for plugging in something like an electric toothbrush charger.
A former colleague wired his bathroom to German standards (using the "equivalent standard of another European country" clause in the building regulations) so his wife could have a (Schuko) socket for her hairdryer. He later found that he was the first person to make use of that clause and the approval eventually rattled right up to the secretary of state.
I am not familiar with 240 V used in many countries. I am familiar with US voltages. I have worked in emergency rooms for over 10 years and do not recall seeing any electrocutions happen this way.
The electricity has to go through you to ground, The ground here is the water and drain pipes. I suppose that is possible.
I have seen electrocutions but they were all industrial accidents involving very high mains voltages, perhaps thousands of volts in unprotected circuits.
So you would have to be holding one end of the wire and the electricity has to go through you to the ground. Possible that 240 could electrocute you. Now maybe someone has some sort of heart arrythmia that could be set off by a lesser charge.
I also dont know much about the ground faults used in other countries.
An unlikely, but theoretically possible scenario is that the phone was in fact grounded, and that it was the plumbing that was live. Especially with the growth of plastic pipes, especially when used as a retrofit during a repair, it’s possible to end up with building plumbing electrically floating. If an electrical fault elsewhere in the building comes in contact with the floating plumbing, you can end up with live plumbing. (This is why it’s a big no-no to use plumbing, like a radiator or water pipe, as a ground for an appliance on an ungrounded outlet! You could theoretically electrocute someone in a different apartment and not even know it!!)
