10l/100km is a bit pathetic, my previous car would happily do nearly twice that
Congratulations for your fantastically fuel frugal car. Apparently in your case, a soda bottle of fuel will get me home.
An average portable generator makes what ... Around 7,000W? Will that get you a decent charge in less time than it takes to have the car picked up and towed away?
...BAIC BluePark New Energy Technology Co., which offers the service [battery swapping]. The state-owned BAIC Group, and its various entities, including BAIC JEV, is reportedly the second-biggest seller of EVs in China. Its numerous partnerships include Daimler and Magna.
BAIC BluePark said that it set up 187 battery-swap stations in 15 Chinese cities for 16,000 electric-powered taxis. And last year, it announced plans for 3,000 swap stations, enough to supply a half-million electric vehicles by the end of 2022.
Electrek
I also don't get your complaints about reliance on the grid. If you really want to go off-grid and give yourself independence from public infrastructure wouldn't an EV which can be powered using electricity generated privately using renewable sources be better than relying on massive supply chain required for fossil fuels?
Honestly maybe for you in particular ICE may indeed be a better choice but for the majority of people, especially city dwellers like Dave, EV are the sensible choice. It kinda puzzles me where people are getting their views that EVs don't work? fake news?
I also don't get your complaints about reliance on the grid. If you really want to go off-grid and give yourself independence from public infrastructure wouldn't an EV which can be powered using electricity generated privately using renewable sources be better than relying on massive supply chain required for fossil fuels?
Pop quiz: SHTF, society breaks down, you have an ICE car and an EV, you need to flee the city, both are full and can get you to a safe town, which one do you take?
I'd take the EV and my 240V EVSE.
Honestly maybe for you in particular ICE may indeed be a better choice but for the majority of people, especially city dwellers like Dave, EV are the sensible choice. It kinda puzzles me where people are getting their views that EVs don't work? fake news?
Not only is it sensible, although we've only had it for a month, it's obvious that it can do everything we need using the supplied 240V charger. Already gone on a 4 day road trip with it with no problem or anxiety at all.
Want to use it for a huge road trip in the new year but will have to reluctantly take the ICE. Not because of range or charging issues, but because of cargo space.
I also don't get your complaints about reliance on the grid. If you really want to go off-grid and give yourself independence from public infrastructure wouldn't an EV which can be powered using electricity generated privately using renewable sources be better than relying on massive supply chain required for fossil fuels?
Pop quiz: SHTF, society breaks down, you have an ICE car and an EV, you need to flee the city, both are full and can get you to a safe town, which one do you take?
I'd take the EV and my 240V EVSE.
You're not alone. Every person I've talked that actually drives an EV has said the same thing. Even here in Australia where we have such low infrastructure density.
I also don't get your complaints about reliance on the grid. If you really want to go off-grid and give yourself independence from public infrastructure wouldn't an EV which can be powered using electricity generated privately using renewable sources be better than relying on massive supply chain required for fossil fuels?
Pop quiz: SHTF, society breaks down, you have an ICE car and an EV, you need to flee the city, both are full and can get you to a safe town, which one do you take?
I'd take the EV and my 240V EVSE.Its no good just taking a car. You need an ICE car and a hand operated pump. As soon as the grid fails the gas stations can't function. Only those with a hand operated pump will get the fuel from the underground tanks at the gas stations to their cars, and keep progressing to the magical place of sanctuary there always seems to be in post apocalyptic stories.
But without a charge point, your battery EV car is immobile right?
Generator.
Also, I've once seen a Youtube video where an empty Tesla was being towed by rope by small truck & they got back multiple KM of range after a few minutes due to through regenerative breaking.
Pro Hint: the trip before your emergency situation is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
It's easy: you are stranded somewhere you thought had fuel/charge and there isn't any. The next place is say 50km away with significant downhill components. You have 10km of range left in the EV and the ICE car, which one is likely to get there?
Note, this is not pie-in-the-sky, I got 10 times lower consumption figures on my trip back down the blue mountains.
This is a a potential real advantage of EV's in an emergency situation if the circumstances suit.
Pro Hint: the trip before your emergency situation is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
It's easy: you are stranded somewhere you thought had fuel/charge and there isn't any. The next place is say 50km away with significant downhill components. You have 10km of range left in the EV and the ICE car, which one is likely to get there?
Note, this is not pie-in-the-sky, I got 10 times lower consumption figures on my trip back down the blue mountains.
This is a a potential real advantage of EV's in an emergency situation if the circumstances suit.Those are a lot of IFs and a weird corner case to try and argue an EV is better. If the road is mostly down-hill it doesn't matter what kind of car you drive. Gravity will pull both cars down hill just as easely so the fuel consumption for an ICE will be extremely low as well (remember both cars accumulate kinetic energy while going down hill). When braking on the engine an ICE car won't use any fuel. And since the ICE car is likely to be lighter the resistance of the tyres will be less.
The EV gains energy back into battery using regen, and a lot of it, an ICE car does not,
The EV gains energy back into battery using regen, and a lot of it, an ICE car does not,Wow. And where does that extra energy come from? Does the regenerative braking absorb energy from the aether? This is quite amusing coming from someone who constantly makes videos debunking free energy.
You're not alone. Every person I've talked that actually drives an EV has said the same thing. Even here in Australia where we have such low infrastructure density.
Thinking about the last storm we had here, it was not a problem to get petrol even though the power was out. More than half of the petrol station owners around here have invested in enough generator power to run the gas station (including the obligatory convenience store associated with it these days), which is a good thing!
The only thing that didn't work, was accepting credit cards, or electronic payments e.g. Apple Pay and the like - those systems were all down hard. Everything was strictly cash only! Something to think about for those who live off their phone, including making payments. When the sh!t really hits the fan, the economy reverts to cash...
Obviously you could charge an EV from those generators too, at a pinch. Maybe a business opportunity for petrol station owners...
You're not alone. Every person I've talked that actually drives an EV has said the same thing. Even here in Australia where we have such low infrastructure density.
It's only the people who have never even driven an EV that are the perpetual naysayers. Just watch, it doesn't take long to see it. They'll be making all sorts of arguments that this or that won't work or can't be done, the inconvenient fact that many people are already routinely doing those very things does not sway them. It's a religious belief that EVs are bad or won't work, and thus debating them with logic, reason and data is futile.
Living in a mountainous region I have often wished that engine braking down a long incline would put gasoline back in the tank of my ICE car but alas all it does is heat up the coolant. I do occasionally turn on the A/C if it's just warm or muggy enough for it to have some benefit but not enough to be worth burning the extra fuel on flat ground.
This really is a 'problem' which needs a properly defined set of conditions and math to solve. In the end math talks; everything else walks.
And since the ICE car is likely to be lighter the resistance of the tyres will be less.
Consider a buggy on free wheels. The engine is irrelevant. Gravitational potential energy is converted directly to kinetic energy, with some losses to friction.
EV car: (same initial total GPE)
- Some GPE converted directly to KE.
- Remainder of GPE converted to electrical energy in generator with losses
- electrical energy converted to chemical energy in battery with losses.
- chemical energy converted back to electrical energy with losses.
- motor converts electrical energy converted back to KE with losses.
This is elementary physics. You still think the EV is going to win?
Seriously, its not like any real life net down hill journey is going to be a no brakes run straight down the mountain side. If that were the case then I could just jump in a billy cart and ride it down the mountain (you can't, you're not getting down the Blue Mountains in a billy cart, not in one piece).
Seriously, its not like any real life net down hill journey is going to be a no brakes run straight down the mountain side. If that were the case then I could just jump in a billy cart and ride it down the mountain (you can't, you're not getting down the Blue Mountains in a billy cart, not in one piece).[...] if you want regenerative braking you can buy a hybrid. [...]
@Silversolder: If I may ask: which hybrid car do you have? I assume it is a Toyota because AFAIK they are the only ones using Atkinson cycle engines in their hybrids.
Seriously, its not like any real life net down hill journey is going to be a no brakes run straight down the mountain side. If that were the case then I could just jump in a billy cart and ride it down the mountain (you can't, you're not getting down the Blue Mountains in a billy cart, not in one piece).It doesn't matter at all. Being nearly out of fuel / charge on the top of a mountain is such an edge case that it isn't relevant to begin with. And if you want regenerative braking you can buy a hybrid. Much better for the environment too all things considered. And since Dave appearantly has changed the distance and starting range let me choose the temperature at -25 deg C.
...
You can twist this anyway you want. Change the scales of length, change the regen efficiency, change the proportions uphill and downhill, even make the whole thing downhill, the result will be the same: the EV will go the furthest with the most range left over.
The point is: ICE cars have no regen, at all. EVs have regen. In any situation beyond just a hypothetical, unrealistic, race track run with no braking. The EV is coming out on top. There is no question or uncertainty about it. EVs have regen. ICE cars don't have regen. EVs are unequivocally more efficient.